What are the connections between the god of Islam and the Arab moon god Allah?

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Quote: "The true Aryans are Persians and many North Indians."

Yes this is true - they also Migrated into Europe (i.e. Gothic
Indo-Europeans). I want you to remember that Race is something different & unrelated to Religion however. We CHOOSE what Religion to (or not to) Practice! If you look at all the Religions in that Area you will see a
Mish-Mash of Various Pagan Religions Like Hindi & Buddhism & Zoroastrianism - to Various Forms of Christianity & Islam! I just felt like pointing this out - I am Sick of seeing & hearing Ignorant White Racists refer to themselves as "Christians" - I wonder what would happen if I told them That Jesus (the Founder of their Religion) was a Brown Skinned Jew?

What if they found out he was a gay black man, who had a posse of men and prostitutes. Would they leave the church enmasse as feared by the church autocracy?

[edit on 15-12-2004 by Justanotherperson]

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente

Yes this is true - they also Migrated into Europe (i.e. Gothic
Indo-Europeans). I want you to remember that Race is something different & unrelated to Religion however. We CHOOSE what Religion to (or not to) Practice! If you look at all the Religions in that Area you will see a
Mish-Mash of Various Pagan Religions Like Hindi & Buddhism & Zoroastrianism - to Various Forms of Christianity & Islam! I just felt like pointing this out - I am Sick of seeing & hearing Ignorant White Racists refer to themselves as "Christians" - I wonder what would happen if I told them That Jesus (the Founder of their Religion) was a Brown Skinned Jew?

What? Did I just agree with Seraphim? I need to lie down...

Originally posted by Justanotherperson
What if they found out he was a gay black man, who had a posse of men and prostitutes. Would they leave the church enmasse as feared by the church autocracy?

What if up was down, left was right and good was evil?

Ooh, I've got a better question! What's your point?

No point. You can make any speculation and it may be true. It's all based on interpretation and plageurism from many sources.

Wow, you sound truly lost Justanotherperson. I'll try to help anyway I can but don't know where to begin. How about feelings? Are you able to discern good or bad from how you feel about things?

I think that the general idea is that the arabs claim to be the descendents of haggar who was sent to the desert with the son she had with abraham.

Yep.

The divergeance is pretty much with the sons of Abraham...with the Jews being descended from Sara's son Isaac, and the arabs from Haggar's son Ishmael.

So, when God said that Abraham's seed shall inherit the Earth, BOTH the Jews and the Arabs believe they are the ones to which it was promised... And so, the battle continues till either one of three scenarios.

1. One kills the other.
2. They kill each other.
3. God comes down and clarifies it.

Neither of which is likely to happen, and so it's pretty much doomed to go on forever...

Originally posted by saint4God
Mind expanding on this statement? I don't follow what you're referring to.

Well, if you want to talk about predestination and predeterminism then Calvin is where it at no? Calvinism is that protestant sect that goes on about it being predetermined, long before you exist, whether or not you receive salvation and reward or eternal punishment.

zi
The true Aryans are Persians and many North Indians.

Since when?

SS
Yes this is true - they also Migrated into Europe (i.e. Gothic
Indo-Europeans).

There is nothing to suggest that the goths are descended from any 'aryans'. The Goths are a group of people speaking an Indo-European language, but then again so are the indians, greeks, latins, english, and tocharians (well, if they were still around anyway).

justaperson
Would they leave the church enmasse as feared by the church autocracy?

I doubt that the church purposely covered up anything, people at those early times weren't as hung up on race as people are now. I also doubt that the usual Catholic or Orthodox or even pre-schiscm depictions of jesus are at all accurate. He was a jewish guy living in judea. He probably looked like any native israelii or palestinian does today. But I don't think it was a conspiracy, I think that people just depicted him as looking like anyone else they knew, so in judea he's more judean, in iberia more iberian, in italy he'd look like an italian and in the coptic church he'd look like an ethiope.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Well, if you want to talk about predestination and predeterminism then Calvin is where it at no? Calvinism is that protestant sect that goes on about it being predetermined, long before you exist, whether or not you receive salvation and reward or eternal punishment.

Thanks for the info. Interesting. I've been to Presbyterian churches (Calvinist in decent, yes?) but not picked up on this theme there. I don't get it. Why then would you need to spead the gospel and talk to people on how to find God if it's already determined they're going to Heaven anyway? Others welcome to chime in here too as per above seems to be a line of thinking in Islam as well. Maybe I've missed this in my study of the Bible so quoters feel free to do your thing too.

If their is an all powerful God, shouldn't that God already know everything that is going to happen to everybody (i.e. having everything predestined)?
So if God doesn't know everything that is going to happen, that either makes it that God is not all powerful, or there is no God, or that everything IS predestined.
Draw your own conclusions

I could be way off and wrong so please don't quote me as representing the whole of Christianity here...

I think God set this experiment into motion to see what will happen. Ever intentionally hide something from yourself? This sounds silly but it works when you say, "Oh yeah, I did set that up to do that. Kudos to me!"

I've never said he wasn't omnipotent, but when it comes to omniscence, perhaps he tries to set up things with many variables and is interested in the details. Maybe he made himself forget something of the future in order to rediscover it. He knows the grand plan per Revelation, but does he know exactly who before they are born?

Just possibilities here.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Thanks for the info. Interesting. I've been to Presbyterian churches (Calvinist in decent, yes?) but not picked up on this theme there. I don't get it. Why then would you need to spead the gospel and talk to people on how to find God if it's already determined they're going to Heaven anyway? Others welcome to chime in here too as per above seems to be a line of thinking in Islam as well. Maybe I've missed this in my study of the Bible so quoters feel free to do your thing too.

Calvinism operates on what it calls the "Five Points of Biblical Theology", namely:

1. The total depravity of the human race.
2. Unconditional election.
3. Limited atonement.
4. Irresistable grace.
5. Eternal security.

Although the fatalistic determination of Calvinism is emotionally repugnant to heathens such as I, it nevertheless works well both logically and from a scriptural perspective; and each of the Five Points of Clavinism do indeed appear to flow from each other.

The logic is this: if mankind is "totally depraved", then it would make sense to say that none wishes salvation (Calvinsts often quote the verse "There are none who seek righteousness; no, not one").

This leads to the Second Point of Calvinism, i.e., since no one can seek righteousness of their own, a totally depraved being must be elected by God to receive it (see Romans Chapter 9).

Because (according to Calvinism) Christ died only for the elect, atonement is limited to them. This is the Third Point. Otherwise, say the Calvinists, Christ is crucified in vain (i.e., He died for those who have rejected His sacrifice, and are thus eternally separated from God).

This in turn leads to the Fourth Point: since God is Almighty, none can resist His Will; therefore, those He elects to salvation must conform with such election (see also Romans 9).

The Fifth Point simply states that since God, and not the individual man, decides who will be saved, such salvation cannot be lost because God is Almighty, and has already made His decision.

Calvinism was an extremely popular movement in the 17th and 18th centuries; its followers in the colonies and England were called "Puritans", while those on the Continent were called "Huguenots". Today, Calvinism survives in traditional Presbyterian churches, as well as Reformed Baptist churches.

Christians are in no position to speak paganism in Islam when Christianity is rooted in paganism. Islam is not rooted in Christianity.

That's contradictory: Islam acknowledges the existence of Jesus Christ, yet this man is Pagan and never existed in history? Esa, was replaced at the crucification and sent to heaven on a cloud be God, was he not? Islam is as rooted in Christianity, as Christianty is rooted in Egyptian religion; Islam is as rooted in Judiasm as Judiasm is rooted in Summerian and Bablyonian religions, along with some others.

Allah has many variatins such as Elah, or simply La... All these names can be found in Hebrew texts and manuscripts. Jehovah is another variation of the named Allah and so Elohim. Allah has always been Abraham's God. It was in a period pagan occupation of Arabia that pagans started to associate other gods with Allah? Why did they do this? And why did they associate other gods with Allah instead of associating Allah with other gods. Allah was there first. Allah was always the main God in Arabia. Pagans associated many pagan gods with Allah. They even said Allah had three daughters. Allah is no moon god or false god. He is the God of Abraham. Abraham was the one who built the Ka'aba with his son Ishmael.

Muhhamed, remember, worshiped Al-ilah, the pagan Moon God; not the God of Moses, Abraham and Jesus --these are later editions. Even the crescent moon symbol is Pagan: This represents the Sun God whom Al-ilah had married and produced 3 daughters. What I see done, was what Moses had done: Muhhamed exulted Al-ilah above the other pagan Gods, and made him the supreme diety of his clan.

Yaweh is not Al-ilah: Yaweh was the clan god of Moses, this god was more xenophobic and demanded utter respect from his followers; this was the God that brought Jews out of the house of Slavery; this was the Jelous God that did not bode well with worship of other Gods [Elohim]; this is the God that gave Jews the right to thier holy land where they would reign and live in peace and prosperity above all other races. The God of Muhhamed is a pagan Idol worshiped amongst 300 plus other pagan gods.

The God of Muhhamed is purported to have no anthropomorphic qualities; yet is the same anthropomorphic God of Yaweh and father of Christ? This is the same Pagan God who married the Sun Goddess and begate 3 daughters? That makes no sense.

Al-Ilah could not have come before these other gods, this God was the Brain Child of Muhhamed, like YAWEH was the Brain Child of Moses, and no other prophets have spoken to the God Moses spoke too --an impossibillity; many of the writers --preistly, for example-- put words into Moses mouth, however, but thier discourse is not the same as was Moses'.

Allah is the moon God worship and propogated at Merchant fairs in Mecca; Allah was inherent in Arabi before Muhhamed exulted him above all other gods, then stripped them away.

Deep

But your statement is the whole point of this thread. Is it true? How do you know? Like I said, the moon is not meant to be anything more than a calender for muslims to tell when their months are over. It is the human craze of wanting symbols for everything that made the moon a muslim symbol. Something to put on the greeting cards. Read over my previous posts and the site I provided that refutes the "Allah is the Moon God" theory.

Thanks for the background, much appreciated. I'm currently attending a Reformed Presbyterian Church...I wonder if the info provided in your post is going to be a sticking point between me and the church. They hold a Q & A every month or so. I should go and find out. Predestination seems a bit pointless despite what Paul says. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the man, but sometimes he seems to go a bit far (i.e. see his views on marriage). Jesus tells people to change, if they were incapable of doing so then there would've be no point. Also, Jesus would not have had to come to Earth if people were already going Heaven anyway. I do not believe in exercises of futility.

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Muhhamed, remember, worshiped Al-ilah, the pagan Moon God; not the God of Moses, Abraham and Jesus --these are later editions. Even the crescent moon symbol is Pagan:

]
Isn't this the whole point of this thread? Why are you making this statement without backing it up? What texts support the later change from the 'moon god above all others' to 'abrahamic monotheism'?

Yaweh is not Al-ilah:

As has been remarked serveral times before, 'Al-ilah', supposedly, means 'The Lord' or 'The God'. Anyway, the name Yaweh is thought to be an ancient tradition amoung the herbrews where there was yaweh and his goddess consort, as opposed to the other tradition of a supreme god amougn the elohim, whether they are angels, spirits, or weaker gods.

The God of Muhhamed is a pagan Idol worshiped amongst 300 plus other pagan gods.

Yes, that is the claim, but where is the support? Did muhhamed say to the other arabs, 'the moon god is the best god, only worship him' or did he say 'there is only one god, the lord, and you should worship him'? How did the earyl arabs that he was evangelizing react to it? Did they say 'well i allways thought the moon god was the best god anyway' or did they say 'wow, like, totally man, there's only like one god, and he's everywhere, not just in the moon or in a river'?

The God of Muhhamed is purported to have no anthropomorphic qualities; yet is the same anthropomorphic God of Yaweh and father of Christ?

The jews and the muslims make there god as having no discernable qualities and, at the very least, tend to not depict their god as being of any particular form.

this God was the Brain Child of Muhhamed, like YAWEH was the Brain Child of Moses, and no other prophets have spoken to the God Moses spoke too --an impossibillity

The claim is that mohammed was speaking to the one supreme god, and that god told him that he used to speak to the jews and that he is the god of abraham and that he, mohammed, is to tell everyone else about it to get them to worhship him. Its not immpossible, no more immpossible than that moses or abraham spoke to any god. Who are you saying replaced the arab worship of the arab moon god as best god with the worhsip of the abrahamic god? Since that tradition exists amoung the arabs, that Allah is the god of abraham, who and when are you saying it was inserted in, and why was it put in? Why would the arabs, who, according to you, are already worshipping the moon god 'Al-ilah' above all others, in accordance with what the moon god's prohpet mohammed taught them, all of a sudden start pretending that it was the god of abramham all along? And why aren't there any arabs still worshipping the moon god above all others?

saint4god,

If you've never read Charles Haddon Spurgeon, I'd recommend. He is regarded as one of the most scholarly and eloquently Calvinist writers in history, aside from John Knox and Calvin himself.

I'm by no means a Calvinist, but I have much respect for Rev. Spurgeon, not only for his philosophical insight into Calvinst theology, but also for his utter devotion in helping the less fortunate.

Also, although Spurgeon was not a Mason and advised his flock not to join fraternal societies, he nevertheless was one of the few 19th century Christian evangelicals who spoke out against the persecution of Masons and other "heretical clubs".

A large collection of his writings, as well as biographical information, can be read here:

www.spurgeon.org...

[edit on 20-12-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
If you've never read Charles Haddon Spurgeon, I'd recommend. He is regarded as one of the most scholarly and eloquently Calvinist writers in history, aside from John Knox and Calvin himself.

A large collection of his writings, as well as biographical information, can be read here:

www.spurgeon.org...

Gads! Alright, if I have to . Kidding, thanks for the referral.

Quote: "That's contradictory: Islam acknowledges the existence of
Jesus Christ, yet this man is Pagan and never existed in history? Esa, was replaced at the crucification and sent to heaven on a cloud be God, was he not? Islam is as rooted in Christianity, as Christianty is rooted in Egyptian Religion; Islam is as rooted in Judiasm as Judiasm is rooted in Summerian and Bablyonian Religions, along with some others."

Excellent ZeroDeep! Ignorance Denied once again! I guess that you have seen the Light too: There is only ONE Religion - with many names!

Here's a link where you can see several pictures of the Muslims worshiping their moon god this year. I know, they say it's not a moon god, but that's what I think of every time I see their flag, or a picture of a mosque. Looks like they put more importance on the moon than anything else. Well, the metorite they worship is ranked pretty high too I suppose. I'm still fascinated by these people who come in droves to kiss a rock that fell from the sky. "O great and powerful rock".

If you never believed that organized religion was a conspiracy you should after seeing these pictures.

[edit on 16-1-2006 by savannah]

allah dus not mean god at all.
The god islam worshipps has 101 names
ex:the merscy one
the wonder
the light
the forgiver
and so and so on
Allah is just one of these names that the arabs use most
Allah means in think Wonderfull or magnificent
i am arab myself and muslim in my language it means the things i posted above.God in arabic is "AL Rab"