A Dutch chemicals dealer, Saddam, and Genocide of Kurds.

A dutch guy... not surprizing.. they'd sell anything to anyone. Dutch are all about money and gimme gimme me me me! They make great capitalists..

Originally posted by Corinthas
A dutch guy... not surprizing.. they'd sell anything to anyone. Dutch are all about money and gimme gimme me me me! They make great capitalists..

At least the Dutch guy is now caught -by the Dutch- for delivering materials to Saddam between 1984-1988. Have US "capitalists" been caught? Do I sense double standards again?

www.wisconsinproject.org...
www.sundayherald.com...

Blobber


[edit on 7-12-2004 by Blobber]

Hey blobber didn't you know the original name for the US of A was doublestandardland?

I was just commenting on dutch buisiness sense 9as it is known to capitalists) or just greed (to normal folks). I live in the netherlands btw...

Another thing blobber... whats with the signature? I dont get it... plese explain...

Originally posted by Corinthas
Hey blobber didn't you know the original name for the US of A was doublestandardland?

I was just commenting on dutch buisiness sense 9as it is known to capitalists) or just greed (to normal folks). I live in the netherlands btw...

Another thing blobber... whats with the signature? I dont get it... plese explain...

Corinthas,

I live where you live

The signature contains the coded messages which the French resistance were endlessy waiting for during WWII, when they were clandistine listening to the BBC every night.
They come from French poems, the first was a code to be on highest alert, the second signals D-Day, the liberation of Europe

Blobber



[edit on 7-12-2004 by Blobber]

The U.S. Relationship With Saddam--Fantasy vs. Reality

Love those 'freepers'.



seekerof

Well yes I love freepers.
Here some quotes from Professor Gary Milhollin, University of Wisconsin Law School and Director, Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, who testified before the US senate Committee.

Quotes:
"...In April 1992, I also published an article in the New York Times that listed over forty American companies that got more than one hundred licenses to supply sensitive, dual-use equipment to Iraq. All of these licenses were for Iraqi nuclear weapon and ballistic missile development sites. The April article followed an earlier one that I published in March 1992 in the New York Times Magazine."

"...Ministry of Defense. Obviously another military organization. It got over $2 million worth of computers, over $1 million worth of guidance equipment, and almost $300,000 worth of navigation, radar, and airborne communication equipment. Many of these items were approved without referral to the Pentagon, even though the buyer was clearly a military enterprise."

www.wisconsinproject.org...

Blobber


[edit on 7-12-2004 by Blobber]

No matter if its a nuclear bomb for Pakistan, Mustardgas for Iraq, The uranium for Israels first nukes, or laying the foundation for the Bush Empire, when large sums of illigal money change hands, there is allmost always a Dutch connection:

www.rense.com...




[edit on 7-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

as posted by blobber
"...Ministry of Defense. Obviously another military organization. It got over $2 million worth of computers, over $1 million worth of guidance equipment, and almost $300,000 worth of navigation, radar, and airborne communication equipment. Many of these items were approved without referral to the Pentagon, even though the buyer was clearly a military enterprise."

Seems to me to be the matter of conventional 'items'. As such, the US sold Iraq/Saddam less than 1-5% conventional equipment and items (1% per the Stockholm International Peach Research Institute).
Arms transfers to Iraq, 1973-2003
Try looking at USSR, France, China, the Czechs, Poland, Brazil, Egypt, Romania, Denmark, Libya, THEN the US......first?

As to CW's, etc., your point is, blobber?
Is there any doubt that the US and some US companies are complicit in providing Saddam and Iraq with chemicals means? The point is that those 'means' were not for military use. Saddam transfered them to and for military use and application.

The U.S., which followed developments in the Iran-Iraq war with extraordinary intensity, had intelligence confirming Iran's accusations, and describing Iraq's "almost daily" use of chemical weapons, concurrent with its policy review and decision to support Iraq in the war [Document 24]. The intelligence indicated that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iranian forces, and, according to a November 1983 memo, against "Kurdish insurgents" as well [Document 25].

What was the Reagan administration's response? A State Department account indicates that the administration had decided to limit its "efforts against the Iraqi CW program to close monitoring because of our strict neutrality in the Gulf war, the sensitivity of sources, and the low probability of achieving desired results." But the department noted in late November 1983 that "with the essential assistance of foreign firms, Iraq ha[d] become able to deploy and use CW and probably has built up large reserves of CW for further use. Given its desperation to end the war, Iraq may again use lethal or incapacitating CW, particularly if Iran threatens to break through Iraqi lines in a large-scale attack" [Document 25]. The State Department argued that the U.S. needed to respond in some way to maintain the credibility of its official opposition to chemical warfare, and recommended that the National Security Council discuss the issue.

Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein: The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984



seekerof

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Seekerof]

Countermeasures,

Look that nuclear technology which the Pakistanis got (and spread) is indeed the fault of the Dutch government. But the Pakistanis got it through espionage, and not by Dutch government/firms selling sensitive materials on intention -unlike US firms.

Blaming the Dutch, for that, is like blaming the US for "giving" the Russians nuclear technology.

Blobber

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Blobber]

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Blobber]

Originally posted by Seekerof

Seems to me to be the matter of conventional 'items'. As such, the US sold Iraq/Saddam less than 1-5% conventional equipment and items (1% per the Stockholm International Peach Research Institute).

What I wanted to state there (the 2nd quote earlier) is that those computers can be use for Saddam nuclear ambitions:
quote:"... Front companies for every known nuclear, chemical and missile site in Iraq bought American high-speed computers and electronics. Computers exports alone exceeded $96 million."

Here another example from American export, an electron beam welder:
"... The electron beam welder. The inspectors found a giant electron beam welder at an Iraqi nuclear weapon plant. It was an essential part of Saddam's production line for making centrifuges, which Saddam was counting on to make his first critical mass of nuclear weapon material. The welder even had a special fixture for holding the centrifuges in place. "

These quotes came from the same guy who testified from the US senate Committee.
www.wisconsinproject.org...

Your argument is that the US sold bacteria and chemicals to Iraq which were not weaponized yet. But do you really believe that Saddam was researching medicines?

Furthermore, the Dutch guy sold materials which were not weaponized too, but were needed to make chemical weapons. And again, the Dutch guy has been caught by the Dutch police for selling the materials in 1984-1988 while Iraq was still being regarded as a good guy by the west, and sanctions weren't imposed back then.

How about these US firms which were selling sensitive materials? See above quote.

Blobber

PS I have a question of a different kind, why is my reply under your thread starter locked? I cannot edit it anymore, and those underlines make it "ugly" (probably went wrong when I edited it).



[edit on 7-12-2004 by Blobber]

as posted by blobber
PS I have a question of a different kind, why is my reply under your thread starter locked? I cannot edit it anymore, and those underlines make it "ugly" (probably went wrong when I edited it).

I believe the 'edit' feature is automatically 'locked' after a lapse of 2 hours, meaning that you have a window of two hours to make an edit, etc.

Just ask a mod of this forum or a sup-mod to make the edit change for you...in the case of the underline issue.


seekerof

You believe it's espionage, well, thats the official story....

TRUE, Dr. Khan learned the ropes of centrifuging in dutch laboratories in the 70's

But Dutch companies kept selling nuclear related materials until the mid-eighties, rather than being appaled by the the theft of sensitive knowledge some Dutch guys decided to make a good buck out of it....



[edit on 7-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

Originally posted by Countermeasures

I believe the 'edit' feature is automatically 'locked' after a lapse of 2 hours, meaning that you have a window of two hours to make an edit, etc.

Just ask a mod of this forum or a sup-mod to make the edit change for you...in the case of the underline issue.

seekerof

Ah I see, thanks for explanation It's np, I just thought it's weird but I knew there must be some reason which could explain it.

Blobber

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Blobber]

Originally posted by Corinthas
A dutch guy... not surprizing.. they'd sell anything to anyone. Dutch are all about money and gimme gimme me me me! They make great capitalists..

What a load of garbage..

First of all we are great merchants but we definitely arent all about money like the americans.
Secondly everyone was selling in Iraq and only because they need a scapegoat to point at so all the other American British and other international companies go of the hook.
Dont be ingnorant plz

Originally posted by Countermeasures
You believe it's espionage, well, thats the official story....

TRUE, Dr. Khan learned the ropes of centrifuging in dutch laboratories in the 70's

But Dutch companies kept selling nuclear related materials until the mid-eighties, rather than being appaled by the the theft of sensitive knowledge some Dutch guys decided to make a good buck out of it....



[edit on 7-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

Ah come on, you directed me to an article about a secret anti-Jew consipiracy, where presumably the Dutch and the Americans are involved, to give "proof" to your statements. This, while it is know that the Dutch had been long time supporters of Israel (with the Americans).

Blobber

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Blobber]