I sometimes question if God exists-Archbishop of Canterbury admits he sometimes has moments of doubt

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: zardust

This guy is honest, and not acting falsely, by trying to be a good idol for his followers to adhere to. He is not harming anyones faith. His "flock" often live in fear when they have doubts, don't want to go to hell after all. For him to show that he is just a man, and not their mediator, or high priest is very honorable.

If this Archbishop is so honorable then he should go by the book that he preaches. His book tells him that sexual perversion is wrong and that women should keep quiet in church. He is as Gay as a three dollar bill and they allow women bishops. Either change the book or get another job. That is honorable?

yes, lets put a homophobic misogynist in the church instead. we could always use another jackass braying in god's name.

a reply to: TzarChasm

yes, lets put a homophobic misogynist in the church instead. we could always use another jackass braying in god's name.

Not what I said at all. Did not even infer it. Either stay with the book or get another job. The other Archbishop of York is in direct opposition as this man and at least he practices what he preaches. Either follow the book or get another job. I could not care less what these people do. Do as the U.S. does. Simply change the book and everybody is happy but don't be a pretender.

a reply to: Seede

Not what I said at all. Did not even infer it. Either stay with the book or get another job. The other Archbishop of York is in direct opposition as this man and at least he practices what he preaches.

you did infer it. according to you, if a bishop is gay and/or approves of women joining them in bishophood, they are unworthy of the position. logically, this says that you feel a proper bishop should bar women from the field and hate gays becausde that is what the book requires. the book also says that women are here to please and serve their male authorities. theres a bunch of other stuff it says too that comes across as agressive and barbaric. point being, its okay to be a jackass as long as you are a jackass in exactly the way the book recommends.

Simply change the book and everybody is happy but don't be a pretender.

some people prefer to simply change how they interpret it...

a reply to: TzarChasm

you did infer it. according to you, if a bishop is gay and/or approves of women joining them in bishophood, they are unworthy of the position. logically, this says that you feel a proper bishop should bar women from the field and hate gays becausde that is what the book requires. the book also says that women are here to please and serve their male authorities. theres a bunch of other stuff it says too that comes across as agressive and barbaric. point being, its okay to be a jackass as long as you are a jackass in exactly the way the book recommends.

Not in the least. You do not comprehend what you read because your intent was to be contrite. I have nothing to object to if guide lines are observed and followed by the people who embrace those guide lines or rules. If a person wants to practice homosexuality and wants to be a bishop then let them abide by their rule book. If people want to embrace
homosexuality and want women bishops then either change the rules or get another job. A rule book in this case is their bible.

What happens when a guy opens the same bible as the Archbishop has and reads that women are to remain silent in church and not usurp authority and that men are not to be lovers of themselves and then have the heads of the entire church do just the opposite? And you agree that it is okay to break these rules of the Christ that tells them different?

Your statement
" yes, lets put a homophobic misogynist in the church instead. we could always use another jackass braying in god's name."

I understand your point very well. You are saying that its okay for the bishops to sin and we don't need bishops that don't sin because they are just braying jackasses. So the other bishop of York (John Sentamu) is a braying jackass or at least that is what you called him. The solution is real easy. Get another book or simply tear the part that you hate out of the bible and make your own book. Yes, I very well understand your problem.

a reply to: Seede

I understand your point very well. You are saying that its okay for the bishops to sin and we don't need bishops that don't sin because they are just braying jackasses. So the other bishop of York (John Sentamu) is a braying jackass or at least that is what you called him. The solution is real easy. Get another book or simply tear the part that you hate out of the bible and make your own book. Yes, I very well understand your problem.

it looks like you didnt understand my point. my point was that an imperfect bishop who preaches love is a million times better than a perfect bishop who follows every rule and is a complete asshat. just because you are good at following instructions doesnt mean you understand the job. we have enough Fred Phelps wannabes running around.

the book is only half the problem. the rest is asshats who take sunday as a perfect opportunity to impress on our fellow citizens how much god hates their gay neighbors. you sound like "if you want colored folk to drink and enjoy themselves, then set up your own bar and let us treat them like crap in peace."

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Seede

you did infer it. according to you, if a bishop is gay and/or approves of women joining them in bishophood, they are unworthy of the position. logically, this says that you feel a proper bishop should bar women from the field and hate gays becausde that is what the book requires. the book also says that women are here to please and serve their male authorities. theres a bunch of other stuff it says too that comes across as agressive and barbaric. point being, its okay to be a jackass as long as you are a jackass in exactly the way the book recommends.

Swoosh, is that shock and awe "a proper bishop should bar women from the field and hate gays because that is what the book requires."
How do you get to that position from the statement made'

Wind it back a bit and settle it down.

The bible does not call for hating anyone in any circumstances, yet you seem to be pedalling this belief, and I dont know if you are even a Christian.


I mean seriously, how did this turn in to a God hates gays thread, why did you do that?

a reply to: TzarChasm

the book is only half the problem. the rest is asshats who take sunday as a perfect opportunity to impress on our fellow citizens how much god hates their gay neighbors. you sound like "if you want colored folk to drink and enjoy themselves, then set up your own bar and let us treat them like crap in peace."

I did not mention race whatsoever. You did. I also did not mention Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church. You did. you have a lot of anger that you seem to harbor in defense of the ungodly. According to most all bibles the act of sexual perversions and disrespect to the doctrine of Christ Jesus is an offense to Jesus. Jesus and His Apostles and disciples made the rule book and if you or anyone else for that matter do not like the rules and regulations then by all means find another rule book and get a different job. No one expects perfection and it is a fact that all people sin but there is also greater sin in those that practice sin and are leaders of sin. Big difference.

It is not the (asshats as you call them) who are to blame for following the doctrine of Christ Jesus. The fault is in the pretenders who pretend they are Godly but practice the perversions in their daily lives. As I said before if you believe homosexuality and disobedience is perfectly alright then by all means have at it. At the same time do not expect the (asshats) to jump in bed with them. By the way are you calling Jesus a asshat? That is what you have infered.

a reply to: Seede

get used to disappointment then.

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Seede

you did infer it. according to you, if a bishop is gay and/or approves of women joining them in bishophood, they are unworthy of the position. logically, this says that you feel a proper bishop should bar women from the field and hate gays becausde that is what the book requires. the book also says that women are here to please and serve their male authorities. theres a bunch of other stuff it says too that comes across as agressive and barbaric. point being, its okay to be a jackass as long as you are a jackass in exactly the way the book recommends.

Swoosh, is that shock and awe "a proper bishop should bar women from the field and hate gays because that is what the book requires."
How do you get to that position from the statement made'

Wind it back a bit and settle it down.

The bible does not call for hating anyone in any circumstances, yet you seem to be pedalling this belief, and I dont know if you are even a Christian.


I mean seriously, how did this turn in to a God hates gays thread, why did you do that?

1. the bible absolutely does encourage followers to hate heathens and blasphemers and harlots and heretics.

2. seede brought up gay bishops.

seriously, keep up if you want to participate. im not going to copy and paste every post you were too lazy to go back and read.

a reply to: Seede

The book is not God. The book is not Jesus.

The book is not perfect. It is not and should not be the end of all Christian faith.

The letter kills but the spirit gives life.

Living epistles (books)

Living temples

originally posted by: TzarChasm

1. the bible absolutely does encourage followers to hate heathens and blasphemers and harlots and heretics.

2. seede brought up gay bishops.

seriously, keep up if you want to participate. im not going to copy and paste every post you were too lazy to go back and read.

Where does the bible encourage Christians to hate heathens, or are you crossing Christianity, Anglicans and the old Testament somehow, so where does the bible encourage hate?

I am aware that seed brought up gays, I just dont understand how the word hate that was applied with it, had nothing to do with your original comment

Sorry for the confusion

a reply to: borntowatch

how many times is a follower, in the bible, encouraged to commit various barbaric acts on heathens and blasphemers as restitution for daring to defy the will of god? in this very thread there was a verse about tying a stone around one's neck and casting onself into the sea. plenty more where that came from. whether or not YOU personally subscribe to it is beside the point...there are many people who would gladly cling to such practices were it not currently illegal. there are people who would rather kill you than allow you to continue living in any way other than god's way. and there are verses that give them instructions on how they should do it.

a reply to: zardust

The book is not God. The book is not Jesus. The book is not perfect. It is not and should not be the end of all Christian faith. The letter kills but the spirit gives life. Living epistles (books) Living temples

Without that book how do you you get Christianity? The book may not be God or Jesus or perfect to you but without it you then do not have Christianity. How can you define Christianity if not from the thousands of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek manuscripts? Are there many Christianities?

If you despise that bad ole book then simply throw it away, get another god and be done with it. OR, you can simply tear out the garbage that you judge is malarkey and have your own little four page bible. I'm sure that the biblical scholars all agree with your translating and interpretation skills in the biblical languages. We could even call this the testament of zardust the great. You are a silly little person just like the archbishop of Canterbury.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: borntowatch

how many times is a follower, in the bible, encouraged to commit various barbaric acts on heathens and blasphemers as restitution for daring to defy the will of god? in this very thread there was a verse about tying a stone around one's neck and casting onself into the sea. plenty more where that came from. whether or not YOU personally subscribe to it is beside the point...there are many people who would gladly cling to such practices were it not currently illegal. there are people who would rather kill you than allow you to continue living in any way other than god's way. and there are verses that give them instructions on how they should do it.

So I guess you cant in fact, point one single passage out yourself, you operate on hearsay and assumption.

What verse are you talking about, its fine to say you know one, but smoke and mirrors unless you actually show it.

Dont start talking about whats beside the point, get to the point or remain silent about what you dont know or understand.

a reply to: TzarChasm

how many times is a follower, in the bible, encouraged to commit various barbaric acts on heathens and blasphemers as restitution for daring to defy the will of god?

Are you saying that the bible doctrine of Christ Jesus or His apostles or His disciples teaches Christ followers to commit various barbaric acts on heathens and blasphemers? Wanted to understand you very clearly. Would you please show me the Christian scriptures in the KJV bible which teaches this philosophy?

All of this bantering between us has nothing to do with the behavior of the Archbishop of Canterbury. His behavior as the leader of some Christian people is questionable according to the doctrine of Christ Jesus as is printed in his very own bible. You cannot deny that statement in truth. You can spin it all you like but that will not change the printed words in his very own bible. He is a pretender and nothing more according to his own bible. Face it. The guy is a phoney.

a reply to: borntowatch

So I guess you cant in fact point one single passage out yourself, you operate on hearsay and assumption. What verse are you talking about, its fine to say you know one, but smoke and mirrors unless you actually show it.

Deut 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.

Deut 13:13-19 Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.

Chron 15:12-13 They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Lev 24:15-16 Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.

Exodus 31:15 Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.

Kings 20:35-36 Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.

Lev 26:21-22 If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.

any of this sound familiar?

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: TzarChasm

how many times is a follower, in the bible, encouraged to commit various barbaric acts on heathens and blasphemers as restitution for daring to defy the will of god?

Are you saying that the bible doctrine of Christ Jesus or His apostles or His disciples teaches Christ followers to commit various barbaric acts on heathens and blasphemers? Wanted to understand you very clearly. Would you please show me the Christian scriptures in the KJV bible which teaches this philosophy?

All of this bantering between us has nothing to do with the behavior of the Archbishop of Canterbury. His behavior as the leader of some Christian people is questionable according to the doctrine of Christ Jesus as is printed in his very own bible. You cannot deny that statement in truth. You can spin it all you like but that will not change the printed words in his very own bible. He is a pretender and nothing more according to his own bible. Face it. The guy is a phoney.

check out my previous post. but it all goes back to the fact that just because a bishop is gay or has doubts doesnt make him any less effective or worthy. i know all kinds of sinners that do far more than your typical cash-basket donation to wipe away your sins of the week. a person who is always sure of themselves is usually a lot less dependable than someone who is unsure enough to check twice. the same principle is just as practical in any religious establishment because i dont care who you worship, common sense is a must on this planet.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: borntowatch

So I guess you cant in fact point one single passage out yourself, you operate on hearsay and assumption. What verse are you talking about, its fine to say you know one, but smoke and mirrors unless you actually show it.

Deut 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.

Deut 13:13-19 Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.

Chron 15:12-13 They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Lev 24:15-16 Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.

Exodus 31:15 Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.

Kings 20:35-36 Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.

Lev 26:21-22 If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.

any of this sound familiar?

Maybe its something to take up with a Hebrew scholar and the Jews

To infer it has anything to do with Christianity shows a complete lack of biblical understanding

Its about as relevant to Christianity as it is to your beliefs, but I guess you would need at least a basic knowledge of what you are arguing to understand that.

originally posted by: Seede

All of this bantering between us has nothing to do with the behavior of the Archbishop of Canterbury. His behavior as the leader of some Christian people is questionable according to the doctrine of Christ Jesus as is printed in his very own bible. You cannot deny that statement in truth. You can spin it all you like but that will not change the printed words in his very own bible. He is a pretender and nothing more according to his own bible. Face it. The guy is a phoney.

Seede, if this guy was perfect, if he was without doubt, how could he understand others, how could he relate on a human level.
The bible teaches the Christian to endure when their faith is weak, endure when reasoning overwhelms.
Jesus teaches that when we are at our least He will be at his strongest.

Christians are promised trials to test them, test their faith.

a reply to: Seede

Lol. Enjoy your idolatry. Worship your book aka the word of god.

I've never said to throw out the book btw. You've jumped to that conclusion. In fact read my posts and you will find use it often.

But that does not change the fact that

A. It was written by men
B. it is not God

Here I'll quote Jesus " you search the scriptures daily because in them you think you will find eternal life" but that ain't it numbskulls. Life is dwelling in your midst.

Much of the NT is focused around not living by the letter. The bible points away from itself and to the exact image. It's a map to a party. It might be a fancy map all decked in gold even. But it's not the party. And when you get to the party sitting there looking at the map the owner might say " hey enjoy the party, the map did it's job "

I use the map to relay information as a common ground with silly little people. But I do not worship the map and it is not the party.

Have a great day