It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Some Atheist's will be saved according to the Gospel of John...

page: 4
9
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 12:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: johndeere2020

originally posted by: zardust
that the Logos has tabernacled in you and me, that the word dwells in us. The life of God in us should cause healing, shalom, peace, love between us, that is what the name of Jesus is.



In this context I agree with you. Actually, that also implies that the Word could also dwell among the good Atheists.

The literal belief of existence in a God can be very shallow. It's the deeds that really counts.


if you do good things because you believe you will be rewarded (or at least avoid punishment), does that really make you a good person? it strikes me as curious that people should be rewarded for being selfless. the point of being selfless is that you give without getting anything in return. one could compare a lifetime of christianity to a job, and you retire upon death to enjoy your 401k. i have a question...if the wages of love and kindness were death, would you still actively practice them?




posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 01:24 PM
link   
a reply to: arpgme

Well its all up for debate, but you are correct, sorta. Jesu is not a greek word, it is a transliteration of Yeshua. The word save in Yeshua is Shua. Ye is for Yah. But we have no record of him actually being named Yeshua or Yahoshua. We have Yesu or Iesu, which is nothing really. As far as I know. The name used in the LXX for Joshua, is the same as used for Jesus in the NT, so there is that connection.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 02:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: TzarChasm

if you do good things because you believe you will be rewarded (or at least avoid punishment), does that really make you a good person? it strikes me as curious that people should be rewarded for being selfless. the point of being selfless is that you give without getting anything in return. one could compare a lifetime of christianity to a job, and you retire upon death to enjoy your 401k. i have a question...if the wages of love and kindness were death, would you still actively practice them?


Wow, then that makes Atheists even better! Christians condemn them to hell yet some of them still choose to do good!

My answer to your question is yes.... ...If in case it happens that the God of this universe is malevolent and would torture good souls for some diabolical reason.

And I'm not entirely discounting that possibility given in our world, the evil and strong prospers while the weak and innocents suffer horribly.

It's possible that the caretaker of our universe is evil and those who will try to change the status quo will suffer some great misfortune in the afterlife.

What do I care?? I have suffered in this life already, gone through lengthy misery just by choosing to do good and not suck up to people's twisted way of having fun at the cost of other's peace.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 02:41 PM
link   
a reply to: johndeere2020


Wow, then that makes Atheists even better! Christians condemn them to hell yet some of them still choose to do good!

My answer to your question is yes.... ...If in case it happens that the God of this universe is malevolent and would torture good souls for some diabolical reason.


im not convinced of that.


And I'm not entirely discounting that possibility given in our world, the evil and strong prospers while the weak and innocents suffer horribly.

It's possible that the caretaker of our universe is evil and those who will try to change the status quo will suffer some great misfortune in the afterlife.


that is a more fitting display of selflessness and humility. the willingness to go to the gallows for someone else's well-being and not land in pillows and butterflies when the floor releases. its easy to put the gun in your mouth when you know youl be leveling up x100 in a moment after you pull the trigger.


What do I care?? I have suffered in this life already, gone through lengthy misery just by choosing to do good and not suck up to people's twisted way of having fun at the cost of other's peace.


thats another thing. i dont see martyrdom as a badge of valor. if you choose to deprive yourself or sacrifice yourself that doesnt automatically make you a hero. some people seem to think so. maybe they feel like it lends an air of authenticity to their faith. maybe they just want to feel like a bug under someones thumb because they believe thats all they deserve. when it gets to that point, thats when it becomes a concern. and when they teach that to others, it becomes a problem. you suffer because you earned it. children are getting killed because gay marriage was legalized and you dont put enough money into the collection basket. but if you do suffer willingly for the happiness of others out of pure concern for their well-being, then i commend you. i dont always agree with spirituality, but i cant argue with good results.




posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 03:38 PM
link   

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
One more time: Ultimately, EVERYONE gets saved, because otherwise God cannot become All in all.


The bibles I have read beg to differ in the extreme.


Perhaps you need a real translation, not just a theo-illogical "version." Try a Young's Literal. Translate well, then make with the theology...

I'm curious - do your Bibles indicate that not everyone gets saved, or that God will not become All in all?


the former. not everyone will be saved or there would be no need for hell. and whats the point of making rules if everyone gets a free pass anyway? i was under the impression that he is a vengeful god. that doesnt sound like someone willing to suffer a change of heart on a dime.


On the other hand, it is easier to explain the "Hell" verses in the Bible in Universalist terms than to explain verses indicating that all are saved if you believe in the eternal torture of the wicked. There are also a whole lot more of the verses indicating that all are saved. I can easily copy and paste more than seventy of them. Most of the time, Hell simply means the Grave.



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 03:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
One more time: Ultimately, EVERYONE gets saved, because otherwise God cannot become All in all.


The bibles I have read beg to differ in the extreme.


Perhaps you need a real translation, not just a theo-illogical "version." Try a Young's Literal. Translate well, then make with the theology...

I'm curious - do your Bibles indicate that not everyone gets saved, or that God will not become All in all?


the former. not everyone will be saved or there would be no need for hell. and whats the point of making rules if everyone gets a free pass anyway? i was under the impression that he is a vengeful god. that doesnt sound like someone willing to suffer a change of heart on a dime.


On the other hand, it is easier to explain the "Hell" verses in the Bible in Universalist terms than to explain verses indicating that all are saved if you believe in the eternal torture of the wicked. There are also a whole lot more of the verses indicating that all are saved. I can easily copy and paste more than seventy of them. Most of the time, Hell simply means the Grave.


i bet the pope believes in hell. and he is the mortal mouthpiece of the almighty is he not?



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 08:03 PM
link   
a reply to: TzarChasm

the Pope is not Jesus Christ
in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus Christ says that he is the one true teacher and the One true rabbi



posted on Sep, 15 2014 @ 09:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
One more time: Ultimately, EVERYONE gets saved, because otherwise God cannot become All in all.


The bibles I have read beg to differ in the extreme.


Perhaps you need a real translation, not just a theo-illogical "version." Try a Young's Literal. Translate well, then make with the theology...

I'm curious - do your Bibles indicate that not everyone gets saved, or that God will not become All in all?


the former. not everyone will be saved or there would be no need for hell. and whats the point of making rules if everyone gets a free pass anyway? i was under the impression that he is a vengeful god. that doesnt sound like someone willing to suffer a change of heart on a dime.


On the other hand, it is easier to explain the "Hell" verses in the Bible in Universalist terms than to explain verses indicating that all are saved if you believe in the eternal torture of the wicked. There are also a whole lot more of the verses indicating that all are saved. I can easily copy and paste more than seventy of them. Most of the time, Hell simply means the Grave.


i bet the pope believes in hell. and he is the mortal mouthpiece of the almighty is he not?


The Bishop of Rome (or your Bible version) speaking of Hell does not make it so. The RCC's claim that their "Pope" is God's mouthpiece does not make it so. You need to read the Scriptures without presuppositions if you want the Truth.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 03:41 AM
link   
a reply to: zardust

Jesus said that All who came before him were liars and thieves.
He is the only way to the father and anyone who knows him knows the father.

If you still want to believe in another god then who Jesus taught that is your choice but it is certainly not his Father.
edit on 16-9-2014 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 04:43 AM
link   

originally posted by: TzarChasm its easy to put the gun in your mouth when you know youl be leveling up x100 in a moment after you pull the trigger.......
............
thats another thing. i dont see martyrdom as a badge of valor. if you choose to deprive yourself or sacrifice yourself that doesnt automatically make you a hero.



I will still do it even if I become a villain in this life and the next. Austerity isn't for nothing. It is a statement of life to protest what greed has done to our planet and to our freedom..

Do you think wasteful living has done any good for our planet as well as for the other living things in it?

Consumerism benefits only ONE organism in this planet - obviously humans (the richer part of humanity) while the rest of other living things and the less fortunate humans live in misery, in toxic and dangerous environments who have no other choice but to manufacture your cheap "toys", else they starve and while animals eat your garbage and lose their homes to make your houses, burbs, cities, machines, and your poison.

Before greed existed and before there were kings, (a very long time ago), poverty did not exist. People could find shelter, food, and protection for free and all from nature.

Poverty and wars existed once man learned to take things for himself. The lands he took and owned are no longer free and people could no longer eat and find shelter for free.

There's a pretty good reason why we created national parks or natural preserves where wildlife and even some people could live for free. The earth was once a one whole giant natural preserve!

Our popular way of life is actually the perpetuation of the evil greed that started wars, violence, and poverty a long time ago.
edit on 16-9-2014 by johndeere2020 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 09:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: TzarChasm

the Pope is not Jesus Christ
in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus Christ says that he is the one true teacher and the One true rabbi


the pope is the next best authority to jesus, from what i understand. certainly a higher authority than you.



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 10:53 AM
link   

originally posted by: TzarChasm

the pope is the next best authority to jesus, from what i understand. certainly a higher authority than you.



If I remember correctly, Pope Francis also announced that Atheists will be saved if they follow their conscience that will result to a good behavior (Atheist's will be saved if they are good/not evil).

Pope Francis also recommended austere living.

I'm not an RCC but I have to say, I really like Pope Francis based on the things he's saying and he seems to be making some enemies.

edit on 16-9-2014 by johndeere2020 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 12:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: TzarChasm

the Pope is not Jesus Christ
in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus Christ says that he is the one true teacher and the One true rabbi


the pope is the next best authority to jesus, from what i understand. certainly a higher authority than you.


Why would the Bishop of Rome have any greater legitimate authority than the Bishop of any other city, say the Bishop of Constantinople?



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 12:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: TzarChasm

the Pope is not Jesus Christ
in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus Christ says that he is the one true teacher and the One true rabbi


the pope is the next best authority to jesus, from what i understand. certainly a higher authority than you.


Why would the Bishop of Rome have any greater legitimate authority than the Bishop of any other city, say the Bishop of Constantinople?


i didnt say bishop, i said the pope. as in THE pope. ask the cardinals who voted him in.
edit on 16-9-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 12:47 PM
link   
a reply to: TzarChasm

There is only one authority. The Golden Rule of Christ, The Law of God given through Christ (Matthew 7;12)



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 01:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: TzarChasm

the Pope is not Jesus Christ
in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus Christ says that he is the one true teacher and the One true rabbi


the pope is the next best authority to jesus, from what i understand. certainly a higher authority than you.


Why would the Bishop of Rome have any greater legitimate authority than the Bishop of any other city, say the Bishop of Constantinople?


i didnt say bishop, i said the pope. as in THE pope. ask the cardinals who voted him in.


The Pope is the legitimate Bishop of Rome, but the rest is an overreach, to put it in mild terms. There is no legitimate church/Church office higher than Bishop or Apostle. That means that the Cardinals who voted the Pope into office aren't legitimate either. BTW, Peter was not the first Bishop of Rome, as proved by ancient sources. The first Bishop of Rome was from Britain. Yes, Rome received Christianity from Britain, as a close reading of who's who in Paul's Epistle to the Romans will prove to any unbiased person. I doubt that Peter was ever in Rome.
edit on 16-9-2014 by Lazarus Short because: more to say

edit on 16-9-2014 by Lazarus Short because: even more to say



posted on Sep, 16 2014 @ 06:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: TzarChasm

There is only one authority. The Golden Rule of Christ, The Law of God given through Christ (Matthew 7;12)



is that why when someone wants an exorcism, they have to appeal directly to the vatican, and by extension, the pope? they have to get his okay. that tells me he's a pretty hefty authority figure.



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 02:50 PM
link   
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest




It is not something you have to worry about unless you are prepared to make the trip and tell them the gospel yourself.


Its because your logic fails that you threw that in. Your a Christian Millenniast but dont want to show your true colours.
What about the countless billions who have died throughout history never having heard of the new testament. You dont sound like a Roman catholic who believes in purgatory to me.
edit on 18-9-2014 by TheConstruKctionofLight because: spelling



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 02:57 PM
link   
a reply to: Jesuslives4u




Heaven is not for everyone


So true. YOUR heaven that is...

But you left out the other part, we all get to be reunited with god/Source. Because there is no HELL. Hell is what you Paulite Christians throw at people because of your fear you may be lonely in your Deimurge heaven. And rightly so. I want no part of the god of the OT

...and before you say its not the same god as after god "repented" and allowed Christs sacrifice...explain this...god is the same yesterday today and tomorrow (Heb 13:8)



posted on Sep, 18 2014 @ 04:18 PM
link   
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight


Your a Christian Millenniast but dont want to show your true colours.

And what exactly are my "true colors", if you could just expand upon that? I know people who have seen angels, who have audibly heard the voice of God, people who share literal dreams without being in contact with each other. Who the hell are you to say that God cannot reveal Himself to people in isolated areas? If you die without knowing God, then its because you never looked up at the stars and bothered to ask who created them. God reveals Himself to those who are interested.

You say my logic is flawed, I say that you are short sighted, small minded and arrogant. You have already made up your mind about God, or else you wouldnt be "talking the talk". You have not experienced the transformation that I and fellow believers know.
edit on 18-9-2014 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo



new topics

top topics



 
9
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join