Flight MH17 Downed By 'High-Energy Objects

a reply to: tanka418

t is rather apparent that none of the 4 of you have the required education to discuss the science here, yet you insist that you are correct...

Just a quick question...Have you contacted the manufacturers yet and explained to them that they are wrong and you know more than they do, because essentially that is exactly what your trying to say?

And you still are wrong, but if I was a betting man my money would go on the manufacturers as to who is right and who thinks they are right.

originally posted by: tanka418

I to am a pilot,

You're the first pilot I've ever met that didn't know what Rate of Climb or thought that air density was "about the same" at 35,000' and 23,000'.

Qualifications: MSEE, MSCS, several lesser degrees in physics, mathematics, chemistry...

And you still don't know how to perform basic math with units?

As a pilot do you frequently allow aircraft to "nudge you off course" without any sort of radio contact between you and ATC? Have you ever been involved in a NMAC and not contacted ATC?

a reply to: _Del_

My mind was boggled at the amount of time required to get all those degrees, but hey! It could happen!

I have a cousin who retired from the military and became a professional student, so to speak. He is now over 60 and has no where near those credentials. Thats with over 20 years of doing nothing but going to college.

The etc was what cinched it for me

lol

a reply to: bbracken677

Anything is possible. Far be it for me to call someone a liar. We all know people who aren't very good at their jobs...

a reply to: bbracken677

My mind was boggled at the amount of time required to get all those degrees, but hey! It could happen!

Well the internet is known for making some people smarter than they think.

a reply to: tanka418

I am sure you have completely satisfied your own mind!

a reply to: tanka418

I brought up an item from a Greek news report about SU-25's in the area, and that they might have "forced" the 777 off course, and into harm's way.

It has been shared many times by sites that are deliberately spreading false information.
But MH17 was not off course, it flew at corridor L980 as planned.

In the second link I see a piece of the metal from the aircraft. It looks like some of the shrapnel came from inside, it is bent out. If it was spinning debris it could both pull out and in on the opposite side but some seems to all be going out.

I'm no expert, just an observer. Someone who has seen bullet holes go through metal.

a reply to: rickymouse

And a missile strike to the cockpit will blow shrapnel out the other side. In certain parts of the cockpit there's not a lot to stop it from going clean through.

a reply to: Zaphod58

But some seem to be going in while others seem to be coming out. The majority do seem to be coming out it seems though. Some going in seem to be more round shaped, almost like big bullet holes. Exploding bullets?

a reply to: rickymouse

Bits inside the cockpit that exploded and came through the side of the aircraft. Crew oxygen bottles, electronics, etc. Or it could have been a pair of SAMs instead of just one. They frequently are fired in pairs to ensure that one hits.

Wow! Thanks for your service. I can only imagine what I would do if a super-sonic telephone pole was careening my way! (or subsonic, depending on altitude)a reply to: F4guy

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: rickymouse

Bits inside the cockpit that exploded and came through the side of the aircraft. Crew oxygen bottles, electronics, etc. Or it could have been a pair of SAMs instead of just one. They frequently are fired in pairs to ensure that one hits.

What about the round entry holes?

a reply to: AntiDude

It's called a high explosive fragmentation warhead for a reason. The explosive is loaded with what are essentially big ball bearings that blast out in a pattern designed to do the maximum amount of damage possible.

There are no holes in that airframe piece that came from an aircraft canon. The smallest in use is 20mm, and Russian built aircraft use a 30mm canon. Those holes are smaller than pictures I've seen of holes in WWII from a .50 cal.

a reply to: Zaphod58

It's called a high explosive fragmentation warhead for a reason

Is the reason that it makes round entry holes? If not I don't see the relevance of this particular statement.

. The explosive is loaded with what are essentially big ball bearings that blast out in a pattern designed to do the maximum amount of damage possible.

Are you sure these pieces of shrapnel are round in shape?

There are no holes in that airframe piece that came from an aircraft canon. The smallest in use is 20mm, and Russian built aircraft use a 30mm canon. Those holes are smaller than pictures I've seen of holes in WWII from a .50 cal.

Maybe you are seeing it wrong. Looks to me that some of these round holes are about 2-3 cm in diameter. If they were much smaller they would hardly show up on those pics.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: AntiDude

It's called a high explosive fragmentation warhead for a reason. The explosive is loaded with what are essentially big ball bearings that blast out in a pattern designed to do the maximum amount of damage possible.

There are no holes in that airframe piece that came from an aircraft canon. The smallest in use is 20mm, and Russian built aircraft use a 30mm canon. Those holes are smaller than pictures I've seen of holes in WWII from a .50 cal.

I have posted a image of the war head. Dont say that it is loaded With ball bearings, because it is not.

BUK war head.

a reply to: spy66

You should've let him answer my question first.

But yeah, that was the pic I had in mind.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Did you not see that pic before Zaphod?

a reply to: AntiDude

Many times. That doesn't change the fact that high explosive fragmentation warheads have pieces impregnated in the explosive. You can find multiple reputable sources, including Russian commanders that describe the warhead as "buckshot for a missile".

Maybe you can explain how high explosive rounds the length of your finger leave tiny holes. Or how the even bigger 30mm rounds do. Or how canon rounds through the cockpit cause an airplane to explode without any kind of radio call.