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Do we have the right to defend our homes?

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posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 11:47 AM
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Here in the UK, we have a law which states that you can only use reasonable self defence to restrain a burglar who has entered your home.

The problem here is, what is reasonable defence?

5 years ago, a man in the UK defended his home against two thieves by shooting them. He killed one and wounded another. The deceased was 16 and allegedly shot in the back. The man who shot this person was given a prison sentence for man slaughter but was released after five years.

At the moment we have a police chief who is trying to get a law passed that will enable us to protect our homes more and not to face a court case if we have to use extensive restraining techniques. This is hard to define.

Going back to the man who was given 5 years for shooting an intruder. This caused widespread controversy in the UK.
My thoughts are that he should not have gone to prison for protecting what was rightfully his home against these two criminals. They wouldn't have got shot if they hadn't been there in the first place.

OK, I'm not saying shoot any trespasser on site, but i would like the peace of mind knowing that i could "hurt" the intruder without facing a court battle for doing so.

I'm not sure of the laws regarding this in the US.

Some people could say that this could lead to vigilantism, but I'm not so sure that this would happen.

We all need to sleep safe and sound at night. Having the go ahead to use self defence, albeit in a non life taking way, would help us achieve this, there fore helping to cut down crime on properties because they would know that if they were caught they would have the owners to deal with as well as the courts.




posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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This case you mention, is it the one with the farmer who shot the two guys as they ran away?

If someone in your home is threatening to harm you, then I think you have the right to if needed harm them so they cannot hurt you.

The case with the farmer, if indeed that is the case you mena, well that is a slightly different matter. He was not threatened in any way and the theives were infact fleeing. Its a hrd thing to call, however taking a life due to losing a few belongings is extreme to say the least.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 11:53 AM
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I WILL SHOOT anyone breaking into my home. I realize the laws are different here than in the UK, but you should still have the right to defend yourself. The fact that somebody had to "break in" shows that they kney that they had no right or permission to be on the premesis. Plus people do not "break in" to perform legal functions like folding your laundry or organizing your shoe bin. The purpose of a break in is always illegal. Rape, steal, terrorize, kill, you name it.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 11:56 AM
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You are right Kriz_4

what he did was wrong in the eyes of the law, but i have to stick to my guns here. If they hadn't been there in the first place, they would still be here now.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 11:56 AM
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Solution to problem:

If they fall down death outside of the house then drag them back inside.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Bikereddie
You are right Kriz_4

what he did was wrong in the eyes of the law, but i have to stick to my guns here. If they hadn't been there in the first place, they would still be here now.


I agree, if they had not been there he would be alive. Equally if the farmer had not shot, he would not have gone to jail. I still do not think personaly property is worth taking a life intentionally. He meant to kill them I belivev.

I too, if someone was in my house, would club them with a cricket bat if i felt scared. I would never try to kill them though, I could not live with myself.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:08 PM
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I will definitely defend my home and family with my life. We worked too hard and long to have it taken away by some thief looking to make a quick buck.

And if I would go to jail for it, then I would go there knowing that what I did was right, and that my family was protected and unharmed.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:09 PM
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Like you say Kris.. its a hard one to call unless you have been in the situation.

We can all say that we would do this or we do that, but would we really?

I can honestly say that i would. I would make sure they went away in an ambulance, not dead, but in some real pain which would hopefully last a long time.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Bikereddie
Like you say Kris.. its a hard one to call unless you have been in the situation.

We can all say that we would do this or we do that, but would we really?

I can honestly say that i would. I would make sure they went away in an ambulance, not dead, but in some real pain which would hopefully last a long time.


I am going to give you some advice that may help you in the future....ALWAYS SHOOT TO KILL. If the situation is severe enough to unholster your weapon, then it is severe enough to shoot to kill. Remember that it is the survivor of the battle who gives the testimony to the police. Never leave a wounded man who can later sue you for damages.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:19 PM
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Hi, i live here in the uk too
.

I thought i heard on the news either today or yesterday
that there is a law coming in saying people can use whatever force they deem nessasary to protect there homes... Maybe im wrong or missheard but im sure that is what was said.

Regards,
Neo!



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:44 PM
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Here in the US there are numerous interpretations depending upon what state you live in. Some states adhere to 'The Castle Law' --- basically that a home is... well you get it... and you can defend it against an intruder. Other states say you can only use deadly force if you cannot reasonably escape and the intruder has a lethal advantage (by virtue of size, weapon, etc). My attorney has always told me that you cannot defend yourself in court if you're dead. If anyone invades my home I will shoot to kill.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 01:04 PM
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Its a shame that some areas prevent you from adequately defending your home and worse still that courts allow the scum who survive sometimes to go after the homeowner. I agree however that blowing away and obviously unamred and underpowered kid is a bit extreme, instead give them a quality asskicking. Another area that probably has been encountered is when an intruder gets mauled by a dog for breaking into a house, I'm sure people start in on the "OMG, Vicious Killer Dog Must Put Down" routine rather than asking why some moron was climing through a window at 3 am with a bag over their shoulder and pantyhose on their head. Who knows, maybe if the laws slacked up and allowed people to defend themselves a bit more crime would drop because criminals wouldnt be looking at a win-win situation even if they get caught.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Neodaemon
Hi, i live here in the UK too
.

I thought i heard on the news either today or yesterday
u: that there is a law coming in saying people can use whatever force they deem necessary to protect there homes... Maybe I'm wrong or misheard but I'm sure that is what was said.

Regards,
Noe!


You heard right Neo

the law they want is still to use self defence, but not to kill. We need to know that we are protected by the law and not face prosecution if we use self defence and the assailant gets hurt.

[edit on 03/12/04 by Bikereddie]

edit for typos

[edit on 03/12/04 by Bikereddie]



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 07:06 PM
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As i type this,i got my shotgun not 2 feet from me.where it always sits,ready in case i need it.if anyone enters my home forcefully,and they would have to as i keep my doors locked,even when im home,then im going to shoot to kill.I dont know if their intentions are merely to take my stuff and run,or to kill me,rape my wife then take my stuff.the world we live in is full of danger and we cannot expect police to protect us,that is your own responsibility.
While im not UKadian(thats what i call my british friend lol)if i lived there i would seek legislator to change the laws to allow more acces to guns for law abiding citizens,and to mend the self defense laws to protect people reacting in a situation where they are fearing for their lives.
If your break into someones home,then dont be surprised if you get the business end of my 12 gauge.
this is common sense really.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 07:09 PM
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As per the Law, you can defend your home using a reasonnable force. That's mean that you don't have the right to kill or wounded a theft... In some case when you defend yourself, and you wounded or kill somebody, you are going to court but you are surely going to win the case by self defense... It's only a matter of using your head.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 07:16 PM
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I think anyone should be allowed to defend their own home especially because of the fact that an intruder is breaking in on your property. If some random person broke into my house i would definately beat the hell outta them as soon as they enter that door.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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And if I would go to jail for it, then I would go there knowing that what I did was right, and that my family was protected and unharmed.


How will you protect your family while your in jail ?

Its all good and well saying shoot to kill, but ive heard of family members being shot by a trigger happy idiot, while up to get a drink during the night in the dark.
No property is worth killing for imo, however self defence or defence of loved ones requires what ever is nessesary, if an an intuder is armed, it goes without saying they mean buisness and must be prepared to use the weapon, in this instance I too would take whatever action nessesary to nuetralise the threat.
Here in Oz they are very backward in this regard, ex:
An intruder breaks into my home armed with a knife, so I grab an iron bar I keep handy and dong him. He later dies. In this instance I am charged with Murder and self defence wont wash. why?
because in eyes of the law, i chose a deadly weapon with which to defend myself, therefore there was intent on my part to do harm, rather than defend myself.
If on the other hand i grab say, an umbrella by the door, and i stab him with it, in the course of defending myself, It might be seen as self defence, I.E no intent or forthought on my part to use a particular weapon!
In oz, excepting for licensenced gun club members (target shooting)
rural landholders ( For vermin) and various law enforcement folk (for killing mentally ill folk and getting away with it in vic) we common folk are not allowed firearms!
The main reason for this is because here its beleived it would result in more accidental deaths (kids etc) therefor have a negative result in society.
The stats for crime involving firearms here are growing, mostly due to black market firearms.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 07:32 PM
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I don't know about laws in the UK but laws do vary widley here from state to state. Some allow you to exercize lethal force if you were in fear for your life, while others require you to sit and watch (or flee) as they clear they house out.

As was stated before, it is a good idea to shoot to kill if you are honestly in fear of your life. The last thing you want is to face a criminal a second time, when he already knows you have a weapon and has the element of suprise.

It's not an easy decision to make, but if you have a gun and are planning to use it to defend your home/familiy you should decide beforehand if you are capable of taking another person's life or not. Wating until they are actually in your house would be a bad time to try and sort through a moral conflict such as that.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by para
It's not an easy decision to make, but if you have a gun and are planning to use it to defend your home/familiy you should decide beforehand if you are capable of taking another person's life or not.


Hell, if you have a gun at all, you should use it. Better YOU use it to defend your home, than a criminal jack it and start running around with it. What if that criminal ended up shooting someone with it? Not only would this person's death be on your hands, but the bronze would trace it straight back to you.

DE



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 07:41 PM
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Thats another point against gun ownership here DE, the chance of the intruder overpowering you then turning your own weapon on you, or/and using your weapon to kill another innocent person later!



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