It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

Women's and men's rights- thoughts and observations

page: 2
<< 1   >>

log in


posted on Aug, 29 2014 @ 12:45 AM

I tried three times to respond directly to each of your quotes, and the responses get lost.

So I am going to sum it up quickly here- I apologize for not being more responsive to your particular points made!

My point here is that-
Self sacrifice in service to others may have it’s place of recognition in the home, with your family,
But it is not constructive in the exterior world of work with non-family members.

This is the major point of misunderstanding.

If you were working yourself into illness and falling sometimes because of the strain, then any compassionate employer would NOT give you added responsibility and promotion.

Protecting yourself, respecting your emotional, physical and mental needs is part of self confidence and self respect, which is essential out there.

On the question of social aid-
No, I do not know how you vote, but you refer to repeatedly to a rejection of the concept of social aid.

I personally feel it would have been better for your husband (and you) to do a job he likes which pays less, while receiving financial aid for the family as a supplement.
Happy workers are more productive than exhausted or unhappy ones. The whole society benefits from that.

Taking care of yourself, and your own internal resources, is what is not being valued there, on a personal scale, and even on the scale of the nation.

The social security fails because it is devalued- what you don’t put care and energy into doesn’t work well. Continue to call it “socialism” and reject it, it will continue to work badly, (it is a self fulfilling judgement).

Yes, I know many people who left the US with no money in pocket. It was scary for them. But mostly because they thought “each man for himself” is a global principle, when in fact, it is a particularity of the US.

edit on 29-8-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 29 2014 @ 01:23 AM

originally posted by: pikestaff
One thing ladies are good at is psychological warfare, the best one being "well if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" .


Yesterday I had under me a group of people who are all relatively new employees, who the others all claim are terrible workers, do nothing right, and do not listen.

I had a great day with them- we laughed a lot, worked really really well, and I appreciated each as an individual as well. So when sitting with my collegues later, as they griped about those people, I wondered why they were so good with me, and why they listen to me so well.

In the evening, one of them I had to work late with cleared that up for me, without me asking. She said the other women see her doing something backwards, and don’t say anything- causing her to not evolve and learn, and often to get in trouble later.

She suggested they do it on purpose, because they don’t want her to get better.
I have to be careful about bad talking my colleagues, but I couldn’t help but give her a confirmation of that with my eyes.

She said, “I like for you because you tell me how to do it right, in a way it is obvious you do it because you care and want me to be successful.”

She is absolutely correct, and I was thrilled to tears that that comes through to others clearly.

Not sharing yourself, or sacrificing yourself, gives the impression your “self” isn’t worth much, in your own opinion.

posted on Aug, 30 2014 @ 01:42 AM
With the problems this site had yesterday, I felt like I didn't respond accurately to your post, and perhaps did not even understand all of it! I feel badly about that because it seems you found what I said offensive and I feel it is important that I acknowledge that.

originally posted by: dawnstar

I suppose my husband should have not reached his potential and continued in the job he enjoyed and take a lower paid wage so we could have enjoyed that financial aid instead??? or maybe he was supposed to kill himself working two jobs??
just so some in our society can continue on with their bias and belief system..

I think I did not understand this, if you would like to clarify or elaborate.

umm what??? why work hard at my job when I find that it's not getting me anywhere??? umm I don't know maybe because I kind of feel that that was part of the employment contract. you know I do the best possible job I can and the boss agrees to pay me so much.

This is the difference I mean to point at in the way women think, and the way men think-
They assume you will respect your own limits, emotionally, physically, and mentally, and that that doesn't have to be specifically asked of you, nor carried out by the employer. They don't assume you will work yourself to death like a martyr, and they find nothing "honorable" about doing so!

why work the job I was doing??

You misunderstood my question. I only meant to ask why you were working yourself too hard, when it was bringing you nothing but suffering.

you keep bringing up social systems as the answer to all the problems.

This is a misunderstanding. I simply pointed out that complaining that people are obligated to work themselves to death in order to have the essentials for survival, while also expressing repulsion to the idea of the social support and aid, creates cognitive dissonance. "We are forced to fight to survive by our society, but I'd hate to see my society change"
It is a common american judgment- "I didn't get any help, I suffered and am bittered and scarred by it, so by god, everyone else should too!"

For me the subject is also on topic, because I consider systems of individualism and capitalism to be more "paternalistic" and systems of collectivism and socialism to be more "maternalistic" - so that extreme repulsion to the second is further evidence of sexism within the individual. Feminists against collectivism (in any form or amount) are themselves, against femininity.... part of the problem they assume to fight.

it should have the idea that yes women have to work to support families also and therefore should have equal opportunity when it comes to advancement and pay!

I think they do. I think the women are simply often misunderstanding often how to get that advancement and pay.

And the fact that I had to work 40 hours a week, live on 4 hours of sleep 5 of the 7 days a week, come home to dinners that need to be cooked, kids that needed help with the homework, house that needed to be kept up, just so my family could have what they need while the single moms all around me stayed home, had time to enjoy life, could open their windows in the middle of winter to air the place out while I froze in mine because we couldn't afford the bills... just to be denied help when I needed it to keep working well..
that just makes me sick!!!.........society couldn't contribute a little bit to help me when I need it the most

Here's the dissonance- in green. You are pissed you were not aided, and elsewhere saying you are against such aid.
You didn't get help because there are MILLIONS of Americans who have the same opinion as you- that giving families financial support is BAD.

ya there may be difference between men and women but those differences shouldn't mean that a person has to live in proverty because a women has to work to support the family.

I agree. I was a single mom in the US, I was raised by a single mom in the US. I lived in someones garage with my baby while I tried to get a college education, and scraped lost grains of rice out of the corners to feed him.

This is why I hold it dear to my heart to open my eyes and find the problems at their source- and the possible solutions.
edit on 30-8-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-8-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

new topics
<< 1   >>

log in