The Gulf Breeze Saga (Part II) : UFOs, the Gulf Breeze 6, and the End of the World

a reply to: CardDown

Other than what I posted which is pretty much readily available on the net, I don't think I want to go any further than I have. I have 2 boys in Army Intel now and going much further could possibly verge in compromising opsec. Everybody knows we have black ops teams that specialize in taking out targets. So it's not hard to imagine them guys being used to stop a rogue Intel op. But they'd have to b high level with knowledge of the big picture, not the Hunter gatherers on the ground. If Vance had the knowledge he claimed to have had, he would have been a high level target, like Snowden. The spec ops teams seemed to b there more for our protection from foriegn agencies, but if you go rogue then all bets are off. This is also coming from the way thing were at the end of the cold war era and the Iraq mess kicked off. I sure most things have changed with the advancements in technology.

a reply to: hellboyz

They definitely weren't psyopsing us, most did not carel.

Yeah, I certainly never suggested they were. The following information as to psyops people and how they are trained, in your post, I'm well aware of as are most of us here commenting. I find it interesting you made a comment about "all the disinformation being spunned up here."
And then there has been some subtle twisting in what I've replied to you and how you respond back. I'm not being hostile, please don't misunderstand. But this is another way of subtly "spunning" information into DISinformation.

Obviously, I was quite clearly suggesting that perhaps they were psy-opsing media, or others that began to repeat the story they told, persons who are interested enough in UFO sightings to catalogue such stories. But in terms of UFO sightings, this case is a slightly different one as it involves religiosity, apocalyptic scenarios and the anti-christ, and messages from a Ouji board, which falls more in the category of strictly paranormal. So some mixing of different research went on with this case. That's one of the things that makes it strange and fascinating, and out of the usual UFO reporting parameters.

And then here:

Believe what u want. Nothing they did was difficult or magical. everything was done in writing not computers. So tracking wasn't really done unless u were a high level asset.. Psychological discharges are general an turn honorable in 6 months

and here:

I know several people were given general discharges due to bizarre behavior. We will probably never no what truly went on.

and here:

They are attached with special ops. The 6 seemed to be dabbling in a lot of things and got way over there heads. The actual top level analyst went to AIT at Travis air force base, an now Ft Huacha. But in the end, who really knows what went on.

You mention psych discharge, bizarre behavior by them, and several times say who knows what really went on.
Some of your information seems conflicting, as they had fairly high level security clearances and did work in intel, were attached to special ops.
And in every post you downplay the whole thing and the 6, by saying repeatedly it was an amusing joke to everyone working on the base….while subtly twisting the language I use to ask a question, at least twice. It seems rather dismissive to me, while being purposeful. And your information and response seem contradictory, such as the top 1-2% of military people make up the Intel divisions
and the training they get….but weren't these 6, in fact, working in intel, themselves? And no one really knows they got a psych discharge, do we?

Again, I'm not being hostile, but your responses to my questions and that subtle twisting, along with what I noted above, ring some kind of bell for me. In most UFO sighting stories, the experiencers are usually treated this way. It's common to the point of being a hallmark, in fact. And after they tell their stories, their lives are irrevocably changed in many, not so subtle ways. Those in a position to comment, either authorities the people reported the story to, or people who claim to know them later, usually respond just as you have…..
Regards,
tetra

I don't think anyone here really thinks they were "going rogue." Their explanation for going AWOL was to prevent an apocalypse and/or kill the anti-christ. The only information that suggested anything of a rogue intent about the situation is the strange, anonymous note received by army brass and tv networks, demanding the 6 be "freed," or missing documents would be released. If the 6 were being held, none of them certainly sent it. Nor do I remember anything coming from any of them, threatening the release of missing documents or threatening the release of sensitive information. But maybe I missed that.

But what most of us are wondering is why in the world they got a discharge with full honors in this circumstance, indicating the people in charge had some sympathy….
tetra

a reply to: tetra50
The disinformation comment was about the whole board in general. There's always comments about disinformation agents on here. Wasn't saying this necessarily the thread. Also I said phyops teams are attached to special ops, we were.not, but special ops teams never seem to b far away. As far as dabbling in things over there heads, I meant the occult, ufo, paranormal stuff. Sure these guys were smart, but their minds were kinda weak and they were surrounded by people way smarter than the.I was just giving my view from Augsburg and what we were told. In the end I don't know what went on. I say that because I sure we were not told everything. It is kinda hard to explain what went on over 23 years ago, especially typing it out on my phone. I do not discount people from other world, the drake equation proves that it's very possible, nor do I discount anything paranormal, because I've seen things that couldn't b explained. The post skimmed past Augsburg to gulf breeze Fl. I just want to give the view from Augsburg, we were not what I consider high level Intel officers. Most of us were worker bees, the queen being the NSA in Ft Meade. Everything I've said was an opinion based off what I seen and heard at the time, that's why I said I truly did not know everything that went on or why. It's just my view from my end. Don't matter to me if your hostile or not, I can hold my own anytime, anywhere. As far as rogue, I meant they went off to do there own thing, I'm sure I could have worded that and some of my other comments better. But my thoughts were flying way faster than my fingers could keep up with.

a reply to: tetra50

Oh yeah, I'd like to add, as far as the discharges go, I believe it had more to do with the embarrassment it caused the Army. It had been the 1st mass awol in a while as far as I know. The Army and the government just wanted it to go away. If they had imprisoned them, their families would have kept it present in the news and papers.

Woah, leave you kiddy-detective-savants alone for a minute and you sprout intel operatives. Or NSA guys. Whatever. GREAT work! Promotions for everyone!

Just kidding. Mostly. hellboyz does come across as if he were there and a pretty cool cat to boot (Hiya and welcome, hellboyz.) The word "plausible" has come up a few times and it's the right word, imo, as well.

Of course one might gnaw on the thought that the timing could be construed on the suspicious side of the equation.

What I mean by that is, is Kandinsky, ATODASO, cuckooold, and mirageman had been in the process of not only collating the extant information, but digging into possible new avenues, all the while reasoning it from every angle and showing some damn impressive brain matter doing it. As I see it, this is the first real "life" and impetus this fascinating and enigmatic case has conjured in decades. Maybe ever. Not to mention the other researchers who will be influenced by the work being done here. If anyone did read this thread that had something to hide re the GB6, I'll guarantee ya' their sphincter clenched.

So that's what I mean about the timing. But, if hellboyz were sent to sow disinfo, I'll say this: They finally stopped sending boys hehe and sent a man.

I tend to believe him at present. Plus, hellboyz stated he was just a peripheral observer and deeper analysis could reveal a larger story. Maybe that question is neither here nor there anyways as the thought strikes me--and has been touched on here--that the only thing as common as the intelligence apparatus in these "special" cases that fascinate a lot of us here on this thread, is the "phenomenology" angle. High strangeness. Remote Viewing, UFOs, etc. Certainly--as Kandinsky noted--"channeling" comes into play.

It's a case that seems to fit a certain blueprint. That nexus where both alphabet & ether spooks, high strangeness, and players who seem almost hypnotized--molded even--gravitate around each other and produce some compelling synchronicities that beg to be explored no matter where the evidence leads; mundane or mind-blowing.

a reply to: The GUT
Hey there, Gut.
This, right here:

Maybe that question is neither here nor there anyways as the thought strikes me--and has been touched on here--that the only thing as common as the intelligence apparatus in these "special" cases that fascinate a lot of us here on this thread, is the "phenomenology" angle. High strangeness. Remote Viewing, UFOs, etc. Certainly--as Kandinsky noted--"channeling" comes into play.

is precisely why I put it to HB,(mildly, I hope) as I commented by way of explanation above that the High Strangeness aspects of this account seemed in danger of getting lost or the whole story becoming trivialized seen through the filter of his perception that most in Augsburg found it amusing, a base joke.

As you noted, Kandinsky, ATODASO, cuckooold, and mirageman were all going great guns, so to speak, with deep analysis taking us down unforeseen, and wonderful winding roads, and along comes HellBoyz (love your name, btw) relating an amusing joke of six, bored, unremarkable soldiers bored with army life going AWOL from Germany to Florida, with some outlandish story they were saving the world by stopping the apocalypse, har har.

Just didn't want all that grey matter work to become nothing but grey goo. So, you know me, I dive in sometimes without checking the depth…..

I'll back off and shut up, now, and just read. No offense meant, HB. I just think there's more to it than that and didn't want the account getting downgraded to junk status.

As to this:

Oh yeah, I'd like to add, as far as the discharges go, I believe it had more to do with the embarrassment it caused the Army. It had been the 1st mass awol in a while as far as I know. The Army and the government just wanted it to go away. If they had imprisoned them, their families would have kept it present in the news and papers.

That''s a valid point, but still, my understanding is that awol thing is pretty tough. One can't just up and leave when one gets bored, you know? And then have Mom and Dad write the newspapers to complain. Of course, thinking about it in that light, what a great cover story that you were on a mission to stop the apocalypse, and then at least one of them found their soulmate. I could put that another, cruder way, but I won't. A funny thing happened on the way to the apocalypse….

I'm waxing silly now, but it demonstrates how seeing this story in an entirely different manner totally changes your perception of it, making it easy to dismiss (please forgive my dangling participle, there, I'm very tired.)

With their story, it would have been easy to give them a psych discharge, but I don't think they did. I'm still perplexed by the army's "just wanting it to go away," as you describe, and as it appears to be. But the Army entirely gave them all a pass, something not often done in these circumstances, especially if it was perceived as you've outlined it. Usually, awol with some wacky story would be pounced on even harder, so as to make an example of them, if nothing else, even being intel. In other words, I'm still thinking there were still hidden reasons everyone in authority wanted it to go away. Although, the embarrassment part does make sense, because they were intel, and because they were intel with that kind of story. Maybe I'm making too much of that, but I don't think so, as Vance went on to give interviews, etc.

But then there's the anonymous message, as well...

originally posted by: hellboyz
a reply to: tetra50

Oh yeah, I'd like to add, as far as the discharges go, I believe it had more to do with the embarrassment it caused the Army. It had been the 1st mass awol in a while as far as I know. The Army and the government just wanted it to go away. If they had imprisoned them, their families would have kept it present in the news and papers.

hey, hb, i know we're giving you a bit of a rough time, but this is a ct board after all lol. thanks for rolling with the punches and staying in the ring.

i just have one more question, and i guess i'll throw it out to anyone familiar with military protocol around handling awol soldiers. several of the sources i read claimed that the military offered to REINSTATE the gb6, but that they refused.

k, getting off scot free w/ benefits does make some sense if the military wanted to sweep a group of embarassing goobers under the rug. reinstatement absolutely does not, right?

a reply to: ATODASO

It seems that in more recent times the attitude of the US military towards deserters has been to not really follow it up with any real effort. Even when caught the unit commander is left with the decision on what any punishment will be.

Interesting NBC article from 2007. Especially the very strange last line of the piece.

I only did a quick search but there were no obvious statistics on desertions/AWOL from the USA.


As far as treatment of members of the UK Armed forces who go AWOL it is interesting to note that the majority of them are dismissed from service and given in excess of 6 months imprisonment.

There is a FOIA document to confirm this here : click here

Make of that what you will.

Personally I am inclined to believe hellboyz is telling us it how he sees it.

Of course just because he was there at Augsburg at the time (I have no reason to believe he wasn't) doesn't mean he knew everything that was going on. He's admitted that much himself. There are rumours that the strange cryptic message sent to the media and Army was linked to the Gulf War. A war that at the time was literally days away from beginning.

But what do I know? I am just a guy on an internet forum who stumbled on this story thanks to Cuckooold's interesting post.

I went back and re-read Cuckoold's sourced article, detailing the GB6's being put in the brig at Fort Bragg, and the furor surrounding what was to be done with them….

The Gulf Breeze Six would later learn that then-President George Bush, Colin Powell and the Joint Chiefs of Staff had together concluded that it was easier to simply release the group altogether.

How many desertion/awol situations get this kind of high level attention and consideration?
I now seem to have a vague memory of this situation, when it reached this point about what was going to be done with the GB6, of seeing it on the news, CNN, more than likely, as I used to be something of a news junkie, hooked by the 24 hour addictive cycle of CNN and the like….there was another 24 hr. news station back then, but can't remember who/what/where/which channel.

Anywho, again, remarkable that the highest level, the commander in chief, himself, and his cohorts, the Joint Chiefs, and Colin Powell, Secretary of State were reviewing the situation and weighing in on outcome….

However, what must be considered with that, which is why I brought up CNN and the nature of how 24 hr. coverage changed absolutely everything: broadcast journalism, real time coverage, focused attention on situations and issues repetitively (this could be a thread in its own right). All that shaped events and the reaction to them, and fed into a loop which was self-reinforcing. Of course, I'm old enough to remember a time without 24 hr. broadcast news…and I'm sure there are many here who don't remember the differences.
News didn't used to play into the shaping of events as much as it does now. It was more the reporting of information. With the advent of constant coverage, it became as much a part of the story as the story, itself.
tetra

originally posted by: tetra50
...remarkable that the highest level, the commander in chief, himself, and his cohorts, the Joint Chiefs, and Colin Powell, Secretary of State were reviewing the situation and weighing in on outcome….

tetra, you are asking many good questions, too! However, the above information only really becomes important if it can be confirmed. It looks like most of what can be gleaned from initial searches has been posted here (thank y'all!) and while we wait for more while hopefully doing our own digging, we can mebbe determine where a lot of this info was sourced from---so as to know how much "weight" to assess each info-bit. The question of the 'discharges under honorable conditions' hasn't been satisfactorily clarified yet as has been repeatedly noted. I wonder if this incident has seen much FOIA action? Even in a round about way wink-wink. *Sends out Bat Signal to Nick Redfern, Jack Brewer, James Carrion and Keith Basterfield, et al*

What a breath of fresh air this thread is, like the golden age of ATS. When a small but impressive showing of exceptional thinkers and researchers would say, "Yeah, Baby, let's get it on!"

ETA: Life is keeping me a little busy right now, but I do hope to contribute significantly to this awesome thread. I know where to come to catch up and where to come to contribute. What I'm saying is that y'all have created a great "go to" resource and maybe we should be patient, remain curious, and nurse this thread along slowly but surely?

originally posted by: hellboyz

...nor do I discount anything paranormal, because I've seen things that couldn't b explained.

Would you feel comfortable sharing any of that, hellboyz? Do the hints of possible paranormal/high-strangness in this tale give you any pause for reflection?

Can you think of anything at all that might support the theory that the GB6 might have had their heads messed with?---even, if necessary, by stretching your imagination? Was there any one person, officer or enlisted, who seemed to steer the office chatter towards the, 'poor-mixed-up-role-playing weirdos' theme? Someone more interested in the oddball clique than the rest of your co-workers?

You were signals but talk as if you have a fair degree of knowledge about how psyops/special forces/intel all intersect. Can you elaborate? I got questions, but I also have respect for your knowledge and how you've handled yourself here.

a reply to: The GUT

Ok, here we go. I have haunted ATS for years. I have always had a great interest in ufo, the paranormal, the military industrial complex, religions, I think you get my point. ATS is like a central database for all these things I am interested in. I finally created an account several months ago and when I seen this post I figured I'd jump in since I had actually been there and met an talked to the gb6 at work. Never outside of work cause the kinda just disappear into the background after work. So I just wanted to give the general thoughts of the people on the ground. I just have an inquisitive mind and a an iq of about 130 or so, which has gotten me in trouble a few times because I question nearly everything.. My dad started me on this path when I was in my teens. He had been a minister for a while, but later became disillusioned with the concept of organized religion. So he started studying and searching for a path that fit him. He amassed quite a library and friends with several fairly talented psychics. So with access to the library and hanging out with some of these people I became very interested in nearly everything that had no real answers. I think this interest led me to the Intel world. It gave me SOME access to the inner workings of the way some things work and I liked having access to international gossip, lol. I learned a lot, but it really left me with more questions than answers. I know this is kinda jumbled up but once again my thoughts r faster than my fingers. I do know that General Colin Powell wanted to fry the gb6's asses, but relented for some reason. He was old school, they used to shoot deserters. Gb6 was given a choice to get out or stay in an face a court martial. Imo they were let of easy because there was still recidual mixed feeling from Vietnam and we were not in a hot war. Matter of fact we we're in a drawdown. Early retirements, bars to reenlistments, that kinda thing. Iraq kicked off not long after all this an things changed. I was working at the NSA at that time. Ok, as far as paranormal experiences, I've seen demons cast out an the fire in our fireplace shot up when the demon came out. My dad's church was in our home. I have seen a bright light cross the sky an break into three pieces , one went straight, the other two pieces went in opposite directions. Kinda like a upside down capital T.
The questions and doubts to what I said and what I've been do not bother me. Army life gives you a hard skin and being Intel means u are under scrutiny at all times, so you have to defend your actions and what u say in order to survive the game. Besides I enjoy a spirited discussion. As to did anyone seem to b more interested or talking more about gb6, no, it was quite the opposite, they were quickly forgotten and everybody kept it moving. Things in the world stated heating up and we were fairly busy.

a reply to: The GUT

As far as being sigant and having knowledge of other aspects of the Intel world. It's a combination of luck, observation, having a wife that was a analyst and a decent network of people who I cultivated relationships with. That inquisitive mind thing, wanting to know as much as possible about how everything fit together

originally posted by: hellboyz
Gb6 was given a choice to get out or stay in an face a court martial...I do know that General Colin Powell wanted to fry the gb6's asses, but relented for some reason. He was old school, they used to shoot deserters.

How do you know this? From being there, or from internet reports OR Davis' interview?

I have seen a bright light cross the sky an break into three pieces , one went straight, the other two pieces went in opposite directions. Kinda like a upside down capital T.

I saw what I deemed to be a meteorite do that once. Came right over my head and broke up exactly the same way in my forward field of vision. Jolly good show, that!

... I just have an inquisitive mind and a an iq of about 130 or so, which has gotten me in trouble a few times because I question nearly everything.. My dad started me on this path when I was in my teens.

Great, 130'ish supports the idea that you are capable of learning. Possibly below the ceiling for independently formulating at depth penetrating questions, however---Haha jus' kiddin' but you know what I mean. Like some of the outstanding questions formulated by various members herein for example.

Are there not any oddities associated with this case that have compelled you to take a second look? From what you've written so far, I've either missed it, or failed to see where you have. Don't get me wrong; I'm a firm believer in coming to personal conclusions, just not before circling the perimeter and looking for any and all potential chinks in each theory.

Which brings us to: Having seen demons (or djinn or interdimensionals or elementals, spirits, whatever we might call 'em etc.)--and I sincerely don't dare doubt that you have--doesn't that raise any deeper questions for you in the context of the City and happenings of Gulf Breeze during that time period? Any, any at all,"hey-that-is-a-bit-odd" moments?

I hope it's clear that I appreciate your participation here and I'm inclined to believe you. It's just that I'm not sure if you've been adequately debriefed.

Folk ALWAYS see more than they initially think they do. That's Intel 101, no?

originally posted by: hellboyz
a reply to: The GUT
My dad started me on this path when I was in my teens. He had been a minister for a while, but later became disillusioned with the concept of organized religion. So he started studying and searching for a path that fit him. He amassed quite a library and friends with several fairly talented psychics.
Ok, as far as paranormal experiences, I've seen demons cast out an the fire in our fireplace shot up when the demon came out. My dad's church was in our home.

Can you elaborate more on your fathers beliefs? What books formed the core of his library?

Also re: lights in the sky. Did you have any weird dreams or out of body experiences after that experience?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

Looking back on things there is a lot that I could say was odd, but it would b speculation. I was just sharing what was happening on the Augsburg side of thing, both officially and unofficial (group speculation). I just stuck with the facts that I knew. This is from the Sentinel which supports my General Discharge statement "
An interesting piece of the puzzle of the six army deserters who showed up in Gulf Breeze, were arrested by the FBI, were taken to Fort Benning and Fort Knox, and then were released with General Discharges, has here-to-for not been shared with the general public. ". The stuff about Colin Powell's position comes from a Duffy group page. People with my mos were called Duffy. There's probably less than 200 or so of us left with the original mos designator. The GB6 came up in a conversation a year or 2 ago and everybody seemed to have the same amused , dismissive attitude as they did back then. Looking at things now, the religious overtones(killing the antichrist) seem to go against the channeling spirits, ufo. That's like borderline blasphemy in most Christian sects. Ok, lets see, my dad really doesn't talk much about where he stands on religion anymore, but his collection consisted of different religious text including the satanic bible, ufo books and the paranormal. It's been almost 30 years since I've seen them. The thing I saw shoot across the sky split away at perfect angles from the core, parallel to the horizon, that's what was so fascinating, the perfect angles. As for the casting out of demons, it could have been a young mind caught up in a terrifying moment and an seeing something more than what was actually there. So Gut, a 130 IQ inables me to learn, but not form independent thoughts or questions of my own even though it 30 points higher than the norm and closer to genius that average. Huh, I'd like to meet the brain trust you hang out with. Lol. Most Intel folks have an iq of 120 to genius level, that a pretty significant number of intelligent people in 1 place. Just thought I'd throw an independent thought at us since you wanted to poke at that particular point

As for the casting out of demons, it could have been a young mind caught up in a terrifying moment and an seeing something more than what was actually there.

What do you remember of that situation? Whats the context?

Also, what was your fathers opinions on UFOs?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

My dad is a believer, the same as myself. Its kinda of conceited and closed minded of us to think that we are the only people or intelligent beings in the vastness of space and time. As far as the exorcism, I remember lots of praying, screaming, convulsions, strange languages, dudes body going stiff and the flames in the fireplace flaming out like lighter fluid was thrown in there. I never said that I didn't think that other things were at play with the gb6, I just wanted to stick to the facts I knew about the situation, not speculate on things I didn't know. The possibilities of what actually happened are endless. If I was one of the 6, I would have moved somewhere out of the state's and write out the whole story. But seems like no one other than Vance wanted to b associated with the whole mess once they got clear if it. Vance tried to leverage the few moments of fame into something, but it seems to fizzled and died. But who knows, so much unknown stuff swirling around us it makes it hard to stay focused on any one thing long.

originally posted by: hellboyz
a reply to: 1ofthe9
I never said that I didn't think that other things were at play with the gb6, I just wanted to stick to the facts I knew about the situation, not speculate on things I didn't know.

Oh no; I'm just interested in your father. :p He sounds like a fascinating character.

Did you ever hear of weird stuff coming out of Offutt AFB?