Another Man Shot by St. Louis Police Just Now

originally posted by: Sremmos80
So now he would have ran if they had tasers but if they have guns he would not have?
And tazers stop you from running as well.

A gun drawn on you has a stronger effect, and a Taser only works from a certain distance, and doesn't always stick either.

Why? I am asking why they didn't tazer him when he was 4 feet away for the cops, not an innocent civilian.

Because they had their guns drawn, are you suggesting that they had 3 hands each?

This man had an opportunity to hurt an innocent civilian when the store owner confronted him and he did not.

Well how kind of him, what a nice Man.

He wanted the cops to kill him and he got his wish.

You see, you expect Law Enforcement to take all these chances, just in order to coddle your beloved, now deceased, psychotic, knife wielding criminal.

Umm, No. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation

Well since you want to make this about me I guess we are done.
Eta: all I want is them to use the tazer om their belt before shootint.
You know, the point of it being there

originally posted by: curiousme333
Oh crap!!! Time to protest, loot, break stuff and act crazy all over again!!!

Don't forget toss Molotov Cocktails, shooting at the Police, jumping the media and stealing their equipment, and carrying around pro-ISIS signs.

Yep, Some real winners. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: Sremmos80

I bet if both officers shot their tazer at this guy then he would be alive and in jail.

It's easy to bet with someone else's life at stake. Are you willing to bet YOUR life on it?

a reply to: whoreallyknows

this is also to Lostinthedarkness,

I doubt its very "newsworthy" to report stories of police using pepper spray or a tazer to subdue a suspect,
but that doesn't mean its not happening.

Also your example has a "the sky is falling" feel to it. I've known a few diabetics who've gone into shock, and it does not in any way resemble a drunk person..

originally posted by: Sremmos80
Well since you want to make this about me I guess we are done.

Oh come on?

]Eta: all I want is them to use the tazer om their belt before shootint.
You know, the point of it being there

I understand that is all that you want, and I am sure that your heart comes from a good place, but sometimes there is just not enough time to go over the options when a lunatic is charging at you with a knife.

~$heopleNation

a reply to: Sremmos80

But for most people, seeing a gun in a police officers hand sends the very effective message of 'OK I need to stop doing what I'm doing, and listen'. On top of that, should anyone risk their lives on the possibility, no matter how remote, that the person with the knife might actually be good at throwing them as well?

a reply to: Sremmos80

That was my whole concern as well. Why not use your tazer.

But seems on ATS if you don't condone shooting someone committing a crime your accused of agreeing with crime.
I'm just wondering why the need to use guns first.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
Ya he put him self in a bad situation, so of course he deserved to die.
I agree walking up to cops with a knife is a bone head move and this the result that could happen.
Doesn't make it right tho.
I bet if both officers shot their tazer at this guy then he would be alive and in jail.

Taser Safety Issues

Critics argue that Tasers and other high-voltage stun devices can cause cardiac arrhythmia in susceptible subjects, possibly leading to heart attack or death in minutes by ventricular fibrillation, which leads to cardiac arrest and—if not treated immediately—to sudden death. People susceptible to this outcome are sometimes healthy and unaware of their susceptibility

And you wanted TWO tasers used on him?

Police officers in at least five US states have filed lawsuits against Taser International claiming they suffered serious injuries after being shocked with the device during training classes.

Medical literature reports that one police officer suffered spine fractures after being shocked by a Taser during a demonstration

While they are not technically considered lethal, some authorities and non-governmental organizations question both the degree of safety presented by the weapon and the ethical implications of using a weapon that some, such as sections of Amnesty International, allege is inhumane. As a consequence, Amnesty International Canada and other civil liberties organizations have argued that a moratorium should be placed on Taser use until research can determine a way for them to be safely used.[8] Amnesty International has documented over 334 deaths that occurred after the use of Tasers

Tasers are being looked at more and more, and the results are coming in: Tasers can be just as lethal as a firearm, worse, since at times death can happen well after the incident with no obvious indications of distress (IE bleeding from bullet holes, but having your heart fail later).

There have also be instances where the taser failed to work (either the person being tased was able to ignore the effect, the shock didn't happen, or the taser failed to work),

Haven’t read the entire thread, but in a place where every cop has tear gas and LTL rounds why are they still using ball ammo?

a reply to: IntroduceALittleIrony

I'm in the medical field, I've seen diabetic shock and yes they can often seem as a drunk confused person. They are often pulled over driving with suspicion of being drunk when in fact they are in need of medical care. Not to get off topic Diabetics just stating the facts of diabetes.

In this case, I'd agree the cops did have cause to shoot, and did not use excessive or brute force. Many witnesses besides the cops said the guy was acting mentally ill, and he was going for suicide by cop. This case is a tragedy. This man who was shot was probably, like a number of poorer African American, suffering from some major mental health problems, yet had little to no access to decent mental health care. The cops seemed to have no other choice but to shoot. The man was obviously determined to die.

The only way I'd question the cops side of the story is if they like unloaded 20 magazines on the guy, or witness/surveilance/other evidence says different.

a reply to: eriktheawful

I agree.

If a bad guy with a knife is willing to take on 2 cops brandishing weapons and wearing body armor head on...that guy is either high as hell or pumped up full of adrenaline both of which have been known causes of failed stops after multiple deployment of tazers.

Now imagine what this guy can do to the average citizen with no vest or weapon?

originally posted by: IntroduceALittleIrony
a reply to: whoreallyknows

this is also to Lostinthedarkness,

I doubt its very "newsworthy" to report stories of police using pepper spray or a tazer to subdue a suspect,
but that doesn't mean its not happening.

Also your example has a "the sky is falling" feel to it. I've known a few diabetics who've gone into shock, and it does not in any way resemble a drunk person..

Dude, I have a friend who I thought had come home high and drunk, but was in diabetic shock. He was mumbling some crazy #, was irritable, staggering and pacing at the same time, biting his arm. His breath even smelled like he had been drinking some sickly sweet liqueur. Not all diabetics go into shock the same, and even within one diabetic, they might have different types of episodes. But yes, diabetics in shock can behave like they have just cannonballed a fifth of Southern Comfort and a laced joint.

A more recent example: I am a care giver. One of my clients is a developmentally disabled woman who is also diabetic. In her file, a whole page is dedicated to her diabetes. One of the things it said, under notes and cautions, was that she had been observed a couple times before during shock episodes, and that the first warning sign was that she might appear to be intoxicated. Since she strongly dislikes the smell and taste of alcohol, and her home is a completely dry zone anyway, if she should ever start behaving like she was drunk and anxious, to immediately take her blood sugar, and from there, go accordingly.

I have to agree with you and to tell you the truth this is not news here in St Louis until something like the Mike Brown issue comes along. NPR had a story on it on the way home from work and witnesses stated that the guy was acting strange and brandishing a knife after stealing from the store more than once. The officers gave him several warnings at which point he pulled the knife out, received several more warnings, told the officers to "shoot me, shoot me please"...while moving to within 3 ft of the officers and they took him down. These events are on the news every single day here and the sad part is many many don't even make the news. There are good people around and north of the I 70 corridor but there many crazies as well just like any other metro area. There are already folks protesting where he was shot so we shall see what happens tonight. If the violent protests join up between the 2 areas it may get ugly for no reason as this guy was obviously in need of some mental care. a reply to: beezzer

If cops are not going to use none lethal then why is my tax money paying for non lethal weapons and training for them just change the law to if I'm afraid kill them. Don't get how in my city a cop can shot you in the arm or leg to disable you but in the USA a cop can't tell between a tazer and a gun. Wonder what would happen if the people treated cops like they treat the people

originally posted by: cloudsstar
Don't get how in my city a cop can shot you in the arm or leg to disable you

Source for that claim?

Why are cops shooting black people?

a reply to: Sremmos80

Yeah...that would work. A tazer at 10 or more...20...even 30 feet. Yeah...go with that. And you'd be dead.

Some of you have no idea about defense, offense and situational responses. If you DID...you wouldnt say stupid things like this.

But still...you continue. "I wish there was love and peace and flowers and happy people loving each other!"

Next time there's a gun or knife or bat pointed at you...go for that tazer. Yep. Thats the answer to it all.

Hey! Then we can use them against all those ISIS beheaders too, right?

a reply to: whoreallyknows

This is a war, the public is the enemy, and the police are the oppressive, tyrannical occupying force. This status quo with cops killing innocent civilians must stop NOW!!!!