We have not yet reached the advancement of Noah's era.

a reply to: np6888

Yeah, don't try that crap on me, i trained in Archaeology. It's pointless arguing with people who get their facts from wholly inaccurate creationist websites and can then rely on a deus ex machina to sort out the gaping holes in their argument when shown up.

First do some reading on carbon dating from wider non creationist sources.

Then do a lot of reading on the many other available types of dating.

Then on how fast organic items decay in a variety of circumstances.

Then stop this nonsense on the basis of logic.

Unless you are just going to say "well none of that matters as God could just have done that"

It's fine if you believe that it is all just down to magic, the divine, or whatever someone chooses or believes to define it as.

But do not confuse it with using evidence.

Believe or don't believe - but backing up faith with facts is unnecessary and doesn't actually work when seeking proofs for Genesis.

A symbolic and allegorical reading of Genesis as wisdom stories and mythology works great and does not harm Christianity at all where as a literal reading of it makes the approach look like Muslim fundamentalism - i don't actually have any issues with the message of The Bible, but taking most of The OT literally is missing the point entirely.

originally posted by: np6888
a reply to: Tangerine

You're assuming that everything has to happen "naturally," I assume that things can happen supernaturally. Which of us is making this a loaded question? I say unless you can go back in time 6000 years ago, or be everywhere at once in both time and space, you can't rule out anything. In fact, you can't even be sure that there aren't UFOs that just appeared and disappeared in some parts of the Sahara, Siberia, etc. right now. You can't be sure that there aren't UFOs trying to control global warming (don't know about you, but it seems a lot less hot here than in past summers, and we're well into August already), or helping reducing the effects of nuclear radiation at Fukushima right now(well, they've done that already, just making a point here). Heck, you can't be sure that they aren't the ones who fixed Chernobyl and restored wildlife, when no one was "looking."

On that basis you can't be sure that God is not a flying butt-monkey from Saturn, Moses wasn't a eating the wrong kind of mushrooms and Sinai wasn't just his backyard where the Israelites just hung out, ate Doritos, played guitar badly and talked messed up rubbish to each other. Your whole approach is just silly so stop trying to use evidence to prove stuff and then saying "well any thing could have happened".

Either believe or don't. Is your faith so weak?

I was intrigued by your lack of knowledge so took a look at your other posts and came across this:

originally posted by: np6888
a reply to: Xtrozero

If we came from Africa, then how do they manage to find human footprints in the UK from 800,000 years ago? How did they get there? Read about the history of England.

Seriously man, go out in to the wide world and read more, how can you tell someone to read more history when you dont even understand that earlier humans existed. Plus you accept the footprints were 800,000 years old??

How were they dated? Please come back when you can tell me, as you clearly relied on the date in that instance.

Make up your mind who you are and what you believe please.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Apparently so do you since Carbon 14 dating isn't used to date things when it exceeds 100,000 years. Also where is that source from? You just posted a random quote with no sourced information. Not to mention it is incorrect since the half-life of C-14 is about 5730 years which you'll notice is greater than 4000 years, and that's just ONE half-life.

From the founder of Carbon 14 dating himself - Nobel Prize winner - LIBBY

Since you want to attack my post now that I gave you the info - look it up for yourself.

For someone who wants to always be on the attack you should learn more and stop biting.

Normally I refuse to answer any post that show a "bad attitude" when posting and this will be the last one for you.

Stop acting like a child.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I like your new avatar. I can not answer I need ice cream.

a reply to: Rex282

A well written post - thank you! But of course you must agree that both sides of this debate automatically die when one screams "SHOW ME THE FACTS" Neither side can prover that their side is correct. It is all based on theory from scientist. Who by the way swing both sides. So saying their was not a worldwide flood is also incorrect.

a reply to: Firefly_

You know I have to say I too believe this is very possible and most likely true. I have often said that man does not have the right to rule over other men; only the creator has that right.

Look around maybe we are next, huh? The next civilization to become extinct?

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u
a reply to: Rex282

A well written post - thank you! But of course you must agree that both sides of this debate automatically die when one screams "SHOW ME THE FACTS" Neither side can prover that their side is correct. It is all based on theory from scientist. Who by the way swing both sides. So saying their was not a worldwide flood is also incorrect.

The whole point of an honest debate/argument is to state the truth.The basis of that is facts.If the facts can’t be known and shown to be reasonable by either side it is a moot point and not a strong argument and therefore a superfluous debate.

In a reasonable debate it is up to the “claimee” debatee to prove and provide all the “true”facts of their proposition or it is only a subjective opinion.The disclaimer only has to provide evidence that the claimee has not substanitly proven their argument.

As you stated the fact is neither can prove the other wrong so it is a moot point that the claimee brought up.However the overwhelming multitude of facts are strong evidence that a worldwide flood a few thousand years ago is geologically absurd(very high odds that make a proposition impossible).Add the implausible details and it has all the signs of an allegory myth at best and not literal events of earth history of a few thousand years ago.

The most significant point is the majority of these type debates are fruitless.They don’t truthfully inform and they always expose someones(many) foolishness.A persons time is much better spent stating the truth and denying ignorance(the whole purpose and motto of this site and this forum).

My memory isn't what it use to be but I seem to have heard that life itself started three times on earth but man, according to Theobald has only 1 ancestor.

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u
a reply to: Rex282

So saying their was not a worldwide flood is also incorrect.

Please scientifically explain where a volume of water sufficient to flood every part of land on the globe simultaneously came from, and then disappeared to.

a reply to: skalla

TextGen_7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Noah’s Flood
Just a theory of mine.
Is it possible that the rain was not the cause of the flood? It may have rained for forty days and nights but the water from the rain might not have been the true cause of the flood.

We actually do not know the percentage of land that was exposed in that day but I am simply theorizing that perhaps it could have been less or even more than today. Today it is estimated that 71% of this world is water while only 29% is land.

The clue that I have noted is in Genesis –
Gen_7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Could that mean that the land, under the 71% water, upheaved pushing the 71% waters of the deep to cover the remaining 29% of land mass? In other words could the inside of the earth have expanded heaving the land under the waters up and forcing the waters (along with the rain) to cover the remaining 29% of exposed land? That may explain the Genesis account insofar as the flooding is concerned. Now along with this could it have been a world upheaval creating mountains and valleys?

It may have been an expansion of magma (type of explosion) or some other cause. So in reality that could explain (to me) that the water is still exactly where it has always been.

Any thoughts?

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

It's still accurate up to 100,000 years, and no I will not look up your quote mine. If you want to show it as true, you made the claim so YOU post it. Those are the rules of standard debate. And to be honest I really don't care what you think about me. If you don't want to debate me that is on you. But know this I WILL respond to inaccuracies you post.

a reply to: Seede

Expanding Earth

While suggested historically, since the recognition of plate tectonics in the 1970s, scientific consensus has rejected any significant expansion or contraction of Earth.

So basically for your hypothesis to hold true, you'd have to reject Plate Tectonics Theory. Do you?

The population of the earth increased greatly from Adam to Noah. Every 20 years or so it would double as those living aged to about 1,000 years. So there could have been billions on the Earth at that time.

In the days of Jared, the Watchers came down and rebelled against God in taking for themselves human wives and their children were the Nephilim. The Nephilim were giants and cannibals for the most part. By the time of Enoch, they numbered about 440,000 in all The watchers and their children ruled the Earth for about 1,100 years until the flood destroyed them.

The watchers original command from God was to teach mankind to farm, to make shelters, to make clothing, etc. Instead they taught man astrology, the making of weaponry, how to make and use drugs. They taught their wives the incantation of words (spells) to influence people and the physical world, the communication with the spiritual world of darkness and talking with the dead, sorcery, and drug use. They also taught the women the art of cosmology, seduction and other feminine attributes to effect their womanly power over a man. The term "witch" originally gets it's name from "Watcher's wife" or "watcher".

The Watchers polluted the gene pool of the human race, and also committed cross breeding with animals. Mankind also did this practice. It is being revived today as we speak. This greatly shortened the life span of mankind. While Noah and his sons were of pure original human stock, it says nothing about the condition of their sons wives. Ham was a homosexual who assaulted Noah, and his sons were sexual exploiters of their day leading up to and past Sodom and Gomorrah. They had lived on the Earth for almost 100 years before the flood. They and their wives.

The original human, Adam, was created to live continually. He was made perfect and would not have died at all except that he ate the fruit containing something that corrupted his DNA and that of Eve as well. This is why we wear out, grow old, and eventually die. We know that the fruit had a physical changing event because man was then corrupt before God. The change also allowed for the ability to hear the voice of God's enemy Satan in the mind and heart. Before that, the Serpent had to talk directly to them. In computer language you might say that the fruit was a Trojan virus that took over the operating system and allowed the hacker remote access to the hard drive, with the ability to make changes as the administrator. So corrupted is the program that we now live less than one hundred years at the most.

By the time of the flood, the entire Earth was almost completely corrupt genetically, both human and animal. So God destroyed it as it was not what He intended, and started over. Yet the gene pool was again corrupted after that once again, as it is written in Genesis 6.

Today, they simply take the seed of man and woman and use it for their evil work of making hybrids. And they will be back on the Earth again in the last kingdom of the Serpent. You will not see them as hybrids but they serve only to exploit humanity to their ends.

It doesn't end here because to those who believe, we know that Jesus, who is called the second Adam, is coming who will make us perfect spiritually and genetically. he will also destroy the corrupt who refuse the invitation to be made complete in Him. But, that's for another time to discuss.

There is so much water underground that a giant flood is something that I believe in.

We have no idea how advanced earth life could of been in the last million years.

Noah could have just gathered DNA from ''pure'' animals and wait on a spaceship of some sort while the flood was destroying most of the earth.

originally posted by: np6888
a reply to: Ironclad2000

The Bible doesn't tell everything. Like I've said, they don't mention Noah's daughters, It's also possible that God created more animals after the flood but it doesn't get mentioned(just like not all stories except for Abraham's get mentioned).
Also, did you know that in Vietnamese, land and Earth are almost interchangeable(literal translation of Earth is "circle of land.") Earth is a very modern word, and is actually a name for our planet. It's possible that by earth, they mean land, though I'm not certain.

Earth as a word and name derived from several sources.... Nordic "erd", European "er" which later became "iere", old English "ear" and Irish "ur". And eventually Earth.

The official name of our planet however is derived from ancient Latin and is Terra or Terra Ferma. Also our sun is Sol and the moon is Luna. All of our other planets and their satellites have Latin names (Latin and Ancient Greek co-existed and many ancient Greek names are also Latin names).

I don't see how any of this is related to Noah though or why you brought it up. Noah is a fairy tale, as with the rest of the bible and there is nothing in that book that can be correlated to any real life event at around the time it is meant to have taken place.

Actually, the Story of Noah's flood is plagiarised from the epic of Gilgamesh, A Sumerian tale, from a civilisation which actually pre-dates even the flood mentioned in the bible.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So basically for your hypothesis to hold true, you'd have to reject Plate Tectonics Theory. Do you?

I am not privy to this expertise. I really could not say but only suspect. I do not know that what we have today are the results of the "great deep broken up." I have nothing to really verify my thoughts.

Genesis is translated "and the windows of heaven were opened" which is taught that it means water from the heaven. I have heard several accounts of that interpretation but to me it means that it rained. By that I understand "the fountains of the great deep broken up" could mean (to me) that some thing inside the earth had a great upheaval. Don't really know. Could it be possible that our entire world had a great catastrophic upheaval of some sort and what we have today
is the result of whatever happened?

I am not even sure of the percentage of land mass then compared to today. Could the land mass have been much less in that era which could explain that we had a much smaller world in the days of Noah than we have today? Would it also explain that the animal life and species could have been much smaller than we see today?

There could be so many variables which I am not even aware of. The water must be still here or the world flood did not exist as we see the world today. I cannot believe that the waters simply disappeared.

Reading a book on Mars, some time back, brought this thought to me that perhaps the water on Mars is still there. Could it be that Mars had the same thing happen as our world? They might have vast oceans under land mass the same as we have. The only difference is that they do not have 29% land mass but 100% land mass. Would that conflict with the tectonic plates theory?

Any thoughts?

a reply to: Seede

Mars dose not have tectonic plates.

Mars is a solid little ball of rock.

Mars used to have a molten core and a tectonic plate structure, but the world was too small to maintain it and the core eventually cooled and solidified.

The core is about 2500miles wide and the mantle around 1500miles. The mantle which is thought to be made up of mostly silicone oxygen, iron, and magnesium in a semi liquid form and is relatively cool.

The fact that Mars has such a weak magnetic field points to all this being the case, because a molten core is essentially a giant ball of gooey hot Iron and magnesium, driven by the planets rotation. The movement of the core creates the planets magnetic field and a tectonic plate system would also be present as the crust floats around on the molten mantle.

Since there is a lack of recent tectonic evidence on mars, or a significant magnetic field. It is safe to say that the interior of Mars is a very cold place.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So basically for your hypothesis to hold true, you'd have to reject Plate Tectonics Theory. Do you?

I am not privy to this expertise. I really could not say but only suspect. I do not know that what we have today are the results of the "great deep broken up." I have nothing to really verify my thoughts.

Well you really should study the sciences better because science IS privy to this expertise and has determined that a global flood is a bunch of bullocks.

Genesis is translated "and the windows of heaven were opened" which is taught that it means water from the heaven. I have heard several accounts of that interpretation but to me it means that it rained. By that I understand "the fountains of the great deep broken up" could mean (to me) that some thing inside the earth had a great upheaval. Don't really know. Could it be possible that our entire world had a great catastrophic upheaval of some sort and what we have today
is the result of whatever happened?

Sure it COULD be possible, but you know what? When great things happen to the Earth in the past, we find evidence for them in the geologic record. Hence the K-T boundary. So if what you said were true, we'd have evidence for it. Sadly this is not the case, therefore it isn't true.

I am not even sure of the percentage of land mass then compared to today. Could the land mass have been much less in that era which could explain that we had a much smaller world in the days of Noah than we have today? Would it also explain that the animal life and species could have been much smaller than we see today?

Land mass on the earth has always been constant. It's the sea level that changes.

There could be so many variables which I am not even aware of. The water must be still here or the world flood did not exist as we see the world today. I cannot believe that the waters simply disappeared.

I know right? The amount of water on the planet isn't enough to cover the planet 100%, therefore it didn't happen. You are jumping through hoops to try to make a square peg fit a round hole when the obvious answer is slapping you in the face. You even recognize that this is the case with the above paragraph, but are STILL denying it.

Reading a book on Mars, some time back, brought this thought to me that perhaps the water on Mars is still there. Could it be that Mars had the same thing happen as our world? They might have vast oceans under land mass the same as we have. The only difference is that they do not have 29% land mass but 100% land mass. Would that conflict with the tectonic plates theory?

Any thoughts?

Does Mars have tectonic plates?

While Mars no longer appears to be geologically active, we see from surface features that it once was very Earth-like in its geological processes. The surface of Mars plays host to the largest volcano in the Solar System, Olympus Mons, and a huge rift valley called Valles Marineris.

And it is this rift valley that indicates that Mars does in fact have tectonic plates. When analysing this ‘crack’ in the surface of Mars, scientists have found that the ‘matching sides’ are separated by a horizontal distance of 150 kilometres (93 miles). This suggests that the surface of Mars is effectively two large tectonic plates that were rubbing by each other.

However, since Mars cooled down much more rapidly than Earth, and therefore the molten rock beneath the plates has solidified, the process of tectonic plate formation appears to have ground to a halt

originally posted by: Seede

a reply to: skalla

TextGen_7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Noah’s Flood
Just a theory of mine.
Is it possible that the rain was not the cause of the flood? It may have rained for forty days and nights but the water from the rain might not have been the true cause of the flood.

We actually do not know the percentage of land that was exposed in that day but I am simply theorizing that perhaps it could have been less or even more than today. Today it is estimated that 71% of this world is water while only 29% is land. [

The clue that I have noted is in Genesis –
Gen_7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Could that mean that the land, under the 71% water, upheaved pushing the 71% waters of the deep to cover the remaining 29% of land mass? In other words could the inside of the earth have expanded heaving the land under the waters up and forcing the waters (along with the rain) to cover the remaining 29% of exposed land? That may explain the Genesis account insofar as the flooding is concerned. Now along with this could it have been a world upheaval creating mountains and valleys?

It may have been an expansion of magma (type of explosion) or some other cause. So in reality that could explain (to me) that the water is still exactly where it has always been.

Any thoughts?

Well, the shape of the coast lines and and sea levels are pretty accurately known over the last few thousand years. I'm honestly surprised that you don't already know this?

So i guess the next question is when you believe a Biblical, world wide flood to have taken place.

However, the Expanding Earth "idea" - it's not a theory - is sadly rubbish. There are some beguiling YT vids that are fairly convincing, but simple geometry and working out of volume will show anyone that the earth cannot have gained the volume or mass required to have made it expand as the only source for gaining these is from magma expanding when it cools, existing water freezing and expanding under the earth's crust or vast numbers of meteorite strikes depositing rock, ice etc. I expect you can see how illogical and also contradictory all of that is, especially in the light of the increases required.

If you can provide info on when you think the worldwide Biblical flood occurred then we can look for a map of coastlines etc.

originally posted by: theMediator
There is so much water underground that a giant flood is something that I believe in.

We have no idea how advanced earth life could of been in the last million years.

Noah could have just gathered DNA from ''pure'' animals and wait on a spaceship of some sort while the flood was destroying most of the earth.

That would mean that the Bible's description was false though, seeing as the Ark and the events surrounding it are very clearly described.

Also, where is the spaceship factory and the fuel refining plants, why do we not find other spaceships and hopw come its all just in isolation?

Aliens?

Please