State of Emergency Declared in Ferguson - Curfew from 12 am to 5am - Now National Guard

originally posted by: OptimusCrime

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: [post=18298885]OptimusCrime[/post

you lose your right to protest until the animals are under control, which they are not.

No you do not!

How does that make sense to you? It goes 100% against the right to protest!
You know that the protestors are different from the looters and rioters but agree to punish them over the actions of the few?
Since there are thousands that have been protesting to your 100's that have been looting

Can you read? How many times do I have to repeat myself to you. Get a pen, write this down and reread it every time you ask me the same question.

"YOU CAN PROTEST ALL YOU WANT IN A PEACEFUL MANNER AFTER THE RIOTING/LOOTING/DESTRUCTION IS OVER"

I get it, you're a criminal apologist, that's cool, but 100's of people burning/breaking and destroying things is a pretty big deal. I'm shocked you can't see this.

"We are not ignoring the looting, we just can see the striping of the rights of those NOT LOOTING getting stripped is the bigger issue.
We see the lack of response to the looters by the police, but a heavy handed one to the protestors."

Edit to add to your add:

You can't have a peaceful protest in a small town where people are running a muck destroying property. You're trying to ignore the riots/looting as much as you can.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: OptimusCrime

"YOU CAN PROTEST ALL YOU WANT IN A PEACEFUL MANNER AFTER THE RIOTING/LOOTING/DESTRUCTION IS OVER"

And how many times do we need to tell you that you can not strip the rights of the many for the actions of the few!

I don't call millions of dollars of damage, destroyed properties, theft and burning down businesses to the point of razing them "the actions of a few". I don't think you realize the magnitude.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

So the entire day when they were peacefully protesting yesterday was all imaginary then?

You make it sound like they loot and riot every time they protest and that is not true!

Impressive...



My money is in him to win the internal power struggle that is the only transparent thing coming out of the Ferguson PD, it would seem.

The Governor also made media rounds today criticizing aggressive police action. Many are beating this drum now.

The debate over militarization of police forces is full-on today, as it should be.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

"YOU CAN PROTEST ALL YOU WANT IN A PEACEFUL MANNER AFTER THE RIOTING/LOOTING/DESTRUCTION IS OVER"

So, to look at this another way? If there is a protest movement out there I am strongly opposed to and really want to see suffer while being shut down by force? All I would need to do, in a hypothetical way, is help encourage the criminal element every city and region has to focus on and exploit the protest.

Then, when police respond and perhaps, overkill the situation to get the legitimate criminal element, right through and OVER the protest I never cared for anyway....I can sit back and call it mission accomplished ..as they can't protest while there are criminals among them?

In all seriousness here? I personally like the idea of seeing the criminal element removed and put into a deep dark hole in one of our worst prisons in this state. The damage they've done is far beyond their direct actions......and not every night has even seen that element out despite protesters being there every time.

Heck, nothing about noting the response is over the top and WRONG..makes the crime they are claiming to respond to any LESS wrong. We have a situation where more wrongs than rights exist and there is no such thing as asking 'which wrong is more right?'. Wrong is wrong, and wrong with the authority of society supporting it? Has to end.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: OptimusCrime

So the entire day when they were peacefully protesting yesterday was all imaginary then?

You make it sound like they loot and riot every time they protest and that is not true!

Jayson Ross, who was leading the protesters toward police, said: "They got guns. We got guns. We are ready."

Right, really peaceful. And, this is after 12AM defying a curfew. A curfew from 12AM to 5AM. You have all do to protest while you're not working and you still want to cause problems and you wonder why the police won't leave Ferguson.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

And there has been nothing confirmed that said they used those guns right?
So yes, they were peaceful while having something to defend themselves vs a police force that was taking their rights away .

You have all do to protest while you're not working and you still want to cause problems and you wonder why the police won't leave Ferguson.

Of course you know that all the protestors don't have jobs, why wouldn't you know that.

The looting and rioting was wrong and the cops did nothing, cause they didn't want to escalate the situation.
Protesting is right and cops met it with rubber bullets and tear gas, but that doesn't escalate anything

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: OptimusCrime

"YOU CAN PROTEST ALL YOU WANT IN A PEACEFUL MANNER AFTER THE RIOTING/LOOTING/DESTRUCTION IS OVER"

So, to look at this another way? If there is a protest movement out there I am strongly opposed to and really want to see suffer while being shut down by force? All I would need to do, in a hypothetical way, is help encourage the criminal element every city and region has to focus on and exploit the protest.

Then, when police respond and perhaps, overkill the situation to get the legitimate criminal element, right through and OVER the protest I never cared for anyway....I can sit back and call it mission accomplished ..as they can't protest while there are criminals among them?

----- That would be a tough situation because it's been tried but usually fails. The reason it fails is because they remove the few individuals from the protest who are causing problems. You would have to bring a counter protest of dozens if not hundreds of people to disrupt a protest as large as Ferguson. I just don't see that as a real possibility. Also, that is not the problem here. The problem is the amount of destruction to begin with. If the protest had started off peacefully, like it should have, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You can't ignore that fact.

In all seriousness here? I personally like the idea of seeing the criminal element removed and put into a deep dark hole in one of our worst prisons in this state. The damage they've done is far beyond their direct actions......and not every night has even seen that element out despite protesters being there every time.

---- Last night they had problems ignoring curfews and shouting about guns. If the protest is going to be peaceful, the peaceful protesters should encourage assholes like that to avoid their protest out of respect for the protest as a whole.

Heck, nothing about noting the response is over the top and WRONG..makes the crime they are claiming to respond to any LESS wrong. We have a situation where more wrongs than rights exist and there is no such thing as asking 'which wrong is more right?'. Wrong is wrong, and wrong with the authority of society supporting it? Has to end.

Jayson Ross, who was leading the protesters toward police, said: "They got guns. We got guns. We are ready."

Right, really peaceful

And? If they didn't attack the police, why is it not peaceful. Lots of people in the US have firearms and will state it. Does that make them not peaceful?

originally posted by: roadgravel

Jayson Ross, who was leading the protesters toward police, said: "They got guns. We got guns. We are ready."

And? If they didn't attack the police, why is it not peaceful. Lots of people in the US have firearms and will state it. Does that make them not peaceful?

I can't believer you're trying to turn this. LOL. Go up to a cop and say "I got a gun, I'm ready" in a situation like that and let me know how that works out for you. You damn well know that was a threat to the cops.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

Last night they had problems ignoring curfews and shouting about guns. If the protest is going to be peaceful, the peaceful protesters should encourage assholes like that to avoid their protest out of respect for the protest as a whole.

And if you watched the live feeds, you would know there was many, many claims for people to pack it in and start again the next day. But that would require you to watch how the events actually went down, something it seems you are not interested in.
You rather just keep going on and on about how all that is happening is animals destroying the city and no one has rights until that is stopped

a reply to: OptimusCrime

They didn't say it to the cops tho!
It is a comment that was said to another protestor that thanks to social media made its way out

They have had huge rallies today in St Louis, and no rain in the forecast. Hard to guess what will happen tonight, but I expect a much larger crowd tonight.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: OptimusCrime

Last night they had problems ignoring curfews and shouting about guns. If the protest is going to be peaceful, the peaceful protesters should encourage assholes like that to avoid their protest out of respect for the protest as a whole.

And if you watched the live feeds, you would know there was many, many claims for people to pack it in and start again the next day. But that would require you to watch how the events actually went down, something it seems you are not interested in.
You rather just keep going on and on about how all that is happening is animals destroying the city and no one has rights until that is stopped

Still doesn't change the fact that protesters broke the law and threatened to have another fight with the police.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

Okay.. Let me ask you this then.

What acts of destruction resulted in what property damage on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday (last night) nights out there?

There were a couple things on a couple of those nights...including one car of punks last night throwing a firebomb into a Chinese place down from the main protest. It happens....and I'm not for the idea of collective punishment against the whole of citizens protesting, for the actions of a few scumbags in the group. (I was in Occupy and lived in a protest camp..how could anyone expect me to see it differently?)

As you say...remove the problems, and I agree. In the mean time, they can (and had publicly stated they WOULD) honor the fact this community is beyond angry at this stage for what has happened.

It's not JUST the original shooting anymore. It's the two nights of military style response. It's the cops roaring up the street, driving over the memorial in the street and PARKING ON TOP OF IT just after the shooting to aggressively try and force people to "move along now...nothing to see here ..or else". Well... The community took to that about like I would have ..and we still see the confrontation now with all that has been done since.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: OptimusCrime

They didn't say it to the cops tho!
It is a comment that was said to another protestor that thanks to social media made its way out

It was still said and shows that some of these protesters still want blood.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

They were breaking a law that had no reason to be in affect. That is what exercising your rights is all about, if they try take it away, you refuse and stand up for your rights.
And threat to fight with the police is pretty speculative.
The police struck first

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: OptimusCrime

Okay.. Let me ask you this then.

What acts of destruction resulted in what property damage on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday (last night) nights out there?

There were a couple things on a couple of those nights...including one car of punks last night throwing a firebomb into a Chinese place down from the main protest. It happens....and I'm not for the idea of collective punishment against the whole of citizens protesting, for the actions of a few scumbags in the group. (I was in Occupy and lived in a protest camp..how could anyone expect me to see it differently?)

As you say...remove the problems, and I agree. In the mean time, they can (and had publicly stated they WOULD) honor the fact this community is beyond angry at this stage for what has happened.

It's not JUST the original shooting anymore. It's the two nights of military style response. It's the cops roaring up the street, driving over the memorial in the street and PARKING ON TOP OF IT just after the shooting to aggressively try and force people to "move along now...nothing to see here ..or else". Well... The community took to that about like I would have ..and we still see the confrontation now with all that has been done since.

Wrabbit,

There a was shooting last night and someone had to go to the hospital in critical condition. It's been confirmed that no officer fired his or her weapon. The last update to that story was at 2:30 today so I don't know if that story has changed, but someone was shot. That along with a firebombing is enough to piss off cops to put you under a curfew and enforce it.

When shots are being fired and Molotov cocktails are being thrown, I think that warrants a higher response than normal policing.

originally posted by: OptimusCrime

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: OptimusCrime

How about the curfew and suspending of the first amendment, unless of course you put your name on a list, after midnight.
People were peacefully protesting until the cops escalated the situation.
I'll ask again, did you want the live feeds last night or would you just rather assume that you already know what was going on.

I've been reading every single thread on ats about the "situation" and watched the videos so you shouldn't be the one to assume. You're a hypocrite and a criminal apologist. I've said it time and again, if people want to riot, loot, kick police cars and shout obscenities about another race then you lose your protest rights. IMO, there should be no protesting allowed until the 100's of people who destroyed that town are turned in and the stores fixed as well as property owners paid back for their losses. But no, you want to avoid that topic all together because it doesn't fit with your theme.

Okay how about we take away everyone's driving privileges until all those drunks or inattentive drivers STOP the illegal behaviors and pay for all the damages they've caused! Send in the military to get everyone off the road until sufficient roadblocks can be set up to give every single driver a sobriety test. Sheeezeeee....
I have yet to see anyone apologizing for criminals---I've seen pretty much universal condemnation of the actions of the thugs and scumbags who have arrived to take advantage of a terrible situation.
What you and others of your mindset seem to REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE is that these instigators are not from the neighborhood. All the store owners who have been interviewed acknowledge this. If, as you claim, you've followed every thread, you've seen the videos and yet you persist in saying that the community members are looking their neighborhood. That's the same old sad excuse I heard in the '60s during the civil rights marches. I had hoped that with improved media these race-war pimps would have been exposed and dismissed for the bigots they are, but NO, there are still plenty of folks left out there, like you, who snap up that bait---hook, line and sinker.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

Never underestimate people's ability to have their own ideas. Glad we're in agreement on the distinctions. I don't think the looters were doing it to undermine deliberately. They simply just don't care are acting in an opportunistic manner. Rioters are where you may find that difference in ideas or purpose. I think it was either Wesley Lowery of Washington Post or Ryan Reilly of Huffington Post that were threatened by a couple white males in masks.

I also think what should be considered is that there are a lot of people coming into Ferguson, probably many with the best of intentions. The problem with that is that it turns what is being discussed by the community into what *insert prominent figure here* thinks it's about. What does Jack Dorsey, a billionaire, know about what it's like to live in Ferguson?