ISIS/USA................Gaza/Israel...............Help me out here

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

I'm saying we are 100% responsible for Iraq in it's present state. We created this monster so it should be our responsibility to destroy it. I mean, we are supposed to be in the terrorist destruction business, are we not?

There's no need for boots on the ground. Airstrikes can take of ISIS alone. The Iraqi gov't (Shiite) has asked for help, the Kurd's have asked for help, and so have the Yazidis (the ones facing genocide).

I really doubt that we're 100% responsible for Iraq's present state because they were fighting each other long before we got there. It was bound to get this far eventually. But we'll see, we've already started airstrikes, so when we're done and the countries people still want to kill each other, we'll see who was right. And we both know that it won't end with airstrikes, boots will be on the ground, and we'll have another war on our hands.

a reply to: cody599


Meh no one seems to remember we were sending funds to ISIS in Syria and Turkey had a small helping hand in that.

a reply to: elixz

But People have a Choice…

Ask the people who Hamas recruits that have had their whole families wiped out… you think they have a "choice"?

What if you hood was bombed, friends and families killed, your home destroyed? What if you weren't allowed to leave, your water and power turned off and food was disappearing? What if that had been recurring your whole life over and again?


Easy to claim "choices" when far removed from that scene.

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

And we both know that it won't end with airstrikes, boots will be on the ground, and we'll have another war on our hands.

Roger that.

They inform us in stages…

First its just a "humanitarian intervention" and air strike (1), "if needed".

Everyone cries.

Then its more airstrikes (plural now) with the media lauding the "success" and cheering the military on.

Now we accept that phase of operations and then its, we need to defend the people some more with "advisors".

We don't have a clue that bombing is round the clock from The George Bush and every airfield for a thousand miles as preparation for whatever ground forces that are already there (renamed "contractors') and any flown in from a dozen Middle East bases.

Folks think that the US has left Iraq or any other country there and that is so misunderstood, dependent largely on the Main Stream medias propaganda spewing 24/7 to main street USA.


Awww the Humanity, the children, American interests…

Always the same, see through the veil.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: elixz

But People have a Choice…

Ask the people who Hamas recruits that have had their whole families wiped out… you think they have a "choice"?

What if you hood was bombed, friends and families killed, your home destroyed? What if you weren't allowed to leave, your water and power turned off and food was disappearing? What if that had been recurring your whole life over and again?


Easy to claim "choices" when far removed from that scene.

Easy to claim "choices" when far removed from that scene

How true

That has been all to obvious on ATS of late, my thanks for a level headed response.

My thanks to you all for keeping this discussion civil, please remain so.

I'll catch up with you all later

Cody

a reply to: intrptr

I am unsure what you're getting at... Stop confusing me.

I said that Americans had a Choice to pick meggling With drugs, but the ones in Gaza didn't have a Choice if they got shoot in the head...

a reply to: elixz

I am unsure what you're getting at... Stop confusing me

I'm sorry didn't mean to do that.

Here…

you said that if America had such a threat at its borders we would be doing the same thing that Israel is. I thought that was an unfair comparison considering the Mexican Cartels threaten America much more than Hamas does Israel and yet, we don't bomb or invade Mexico for it.

Hope that clears it up. Last response, sort of off topic.

People keep lobing rockets, Expect return fire.

It's kinda rediculous that everyone is saying 2 things.

1. Israel needs to go home ( Leave the area *They don't have another*)

2. Stop firing back at the endless rockets.


Running the Iron dome is very expensive, and it only works 90% of the time.
Besides, I really don't care and am somwhat frustrated that people are asking Israel to stop
When its clearly Hamas and OTHER militants lobing those rockets?

It's not really a coincidence that ISIS is gaining power at the same time that this war broke out.
There are motives behind this war. This was was preplanned by Gangs.

That's all Isis, Hamas, Al-qaeda is. Religious Gangs.
And trying to Rid a town of Religious gangs is like trying to weed out every UN, Crypts, bloods, Hells Angels ect Gang out of the buildings when the gangs are fighting the cops, Fighting the army, And eventually take over.
They call this *Overthrowing the last regime*
When it's really just One gang gainiing momentium.

The obvious conclusion is that Palastinians in the GAZA strip Need help from the other palastinians who are doing Dick all to help them.
In fact the 2 cities are practically different countries.....
With talks of *Merging* the 2 as if some sort of super palastinan state is formed.

Capture the city from the gang members? Good luck with that. Expecially with their underground tunnel networks most gangs seem to have nowadays.

Gaza needs to be disarmed, And everyone cought with a weapon charged by court to rebuild after the calamity.
But we arn't just dealing with one corrupt city. There is much going on elsewhere right now and Genocide of children is happening on greater scales elsewhere in nnearby countries.

Lebanon and syria are having trouble, The Kurds are requesting immediate help from America.
Ukraine is under civil unrest. Gangs are taking over Damascus again.

Gangs are trying to rule the world. They are doing it with every aspect. Economic branches for gangs (Selling drugs and weapons- Ilegal goods)
Territorial branches ( Gangs that control large tracks of land doing roberies and causing other terrorism)
And Militant Gangs ( Gangs funded through all 3 branches to form Elite Militias of 'Mercinaries')

And then you have the governments run by regular citizens or royality presumabily.

Gangs are the number 1 threat to the NWO, Because all gangs carry one common goal.
To disrupt and dismantle government.
And that's anywhere. Because gang leaders want to be world leaders.
And Hamas, ISIS, Al-Qaeda are all Middle eastern Gangs. Not Terrorists.
There is no such thing as terrorists. There is only the govenment. And Organized crime.
And the criminals in Gaza need to be delt with Justice.

originally posted by: cody599

My question is, why is OK for the USA to attack a perceived threat on the other side of the world, when it isn't OK for Israel to defend it's citizens from a very real terrorist organisation launching missiles at it ?

Because Jews are being threatened in one instance and Christians are being threatened in the other instance.

Hate to be the one to point out the obvious. . . . .

a reply to: intrptr

Oh, now I get it, thanks for the clarification.


If the Mexican Cartel had the same scale of Power in Mexico as Hamas has in Gaza, then I will assume the US to do something about that and in the process many mexicans might end up dead... That would indeed not be so different from what Israel does to Gaza.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: cody599

My question is, why is OK for the USA to attack a perceived threat on the other side of the world, when it isn't OK for Israel to defend it's citizens from a very real terrorist organisation launching missiles at it ?

Because Jews are being threatened in one instance and Christians are being threatened in the other instance.

Hate to be the one to point out the obvious. . . . .

Beez we've been friends for a long time,

I think oil might be the deciding factor.

By the way ................ Off topic ............... When can I buy you that beer in London ?

Cody

a reply to: gladtobehere

Thank you. Excellent post, couldn't have said it better myself.

The body count and horribly lopsided death toll says it all, doesn't it?

The OP holds dual citizenship with a country engaged in genocide, which he calls "self defense". I guess in this Orwellian nightmare, shooting fish in a barrel and calling it self defense is justifiable. In the real world, it is a moral outrage.

originally posted by: cody599

originally posted by: criticalhit
It's okay because...

The American supporters of Palestine are complete morons that run the gamut between Hippies picking up a trendy cause to blatant Jew hating whack jobs who read to many conspiracy theories and fall in deep with the more ridiculous ones, the kind of people who watched Iron Sky and thought it was a documentary

America killed 500,000 Iraqi's for no reason basically, Jews shoot back it's a genocide.. the same dummies don't even realize Isis across Iraq and Syria, The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Hamas are basically identical by philosophy and would link up and be a nightmare if Israel wasn't there or that about the only thing far flung states in the region like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt can even agree upon is that such a thing would potentially doom all their govts as well...

Why is it okay?

Cus Murica

lol

As much as I appreciate your support in my thread, please may I ask you to keep it civil ?

There's no need to start calling people morons, we all have our opinions and are entitled them.

Let's not make this a slagging match please

Cody

sorry sincerely,

forum decorum, I understand...

Honestly initially I had my moments where I felt the sympathy, people hold up pictures of kids for a reason... it works, but when you really examine the situation, Hamas, Muslim brotherhood and ISIS and see the kind of cancer the region could potentially create right now... well, in the long run a lot more Muslims will die and suffer if this is left unchecked than Jews before said and done, no matter how you look at this intervention is needed. Saudi Arabia is threatened, Egypt and Even Iran and Israel is in all reality the domino that would have to fall for a caliphate to form and even most of the legitimate Nation states aforementioned know this and don't want it to happen, not now, not this way. And the onslaught misinformed Americans in their early 20's or late teens looking for a humanitarian cause, well... I wish they would just go save the whales again because their demographic mix up with some of the worst American racists possible and turkish wanna be anon's etc is really just obnoxious, hipsters, rednecks and religious zealots forming a debate block just confounds the mind.... essentially because the sides of the debate all hate one another as your post shows.... America bombs 1/3 shift over and yell "hell yeah" the other 3rd go back to listening to "the cure" over bong hits....

And no offense, didn't mean to name call... but honestly, the thread itself is as much a troll on said characters without calling them out by name and demographic.... I agree fully with the "everyone has a right to their own opinion" and wont name call but honestly and truly for the most part when this debate is engaged in RL, the supporters on that side of the argument to the 90th percent have been in that 19 to early 20 something range, often Punk or hippie still entertaining HS ish stereo types or Aryan nation wanna be's or the same crew of older adults who blames Mexicans for taking their Jawbs... and a fringe of ultra, ultra liberals who actually have a few letters but somehow don't realize their views have run full circle around the spectrum to draconian beliefs...

Either way, i'll respect your wishes, there wasn't much need to say more than your thread it self did ... very subtle, not my style, but effective.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: cody599
Being that ISIS is a creation directly out of the false war in Iraq of 2003, and meddling in Syria, the US & friends are responsible for their existence. Being that ISIS is committing genocide it's the US & friends responsibility to stop it.

That's absolutely right. The USA made these countries unstable and minorities are now being murdered, it's only fair to protect those people that were safe before the meddling began.

a reply to: beezzer

The Yazidis aren't Christians.

originally posted by: cody599
Hi guys

One has to ask after the rhetoric on ATS of late regarding Gaza/Israel

Is it OK for the USA to attack ISIS with air strikes ?

Let's start this with a bit of a reality check...............................USA is under no direct threat of immediate missile attack from ISIS, no American city is likely to be hit by a missile in the foreseeable future, yet air strikes have been ordered and indeed the MSM is proudly showing said strikes taking out terrorists thousands of miles away from any real perceivable threat to either America or indeed Europe.

This is being applauded

Israel is under a sustained attack, a very real threat of death for it's citizens, has offered ceasefire upon ceasefire, extensions to ceasefires, and has been refused.

Israel in this current conflict has only ever reacted to attack. Yes the civilian loss of life is lamentable, but if Hamas choose to use human shields for propaganda what can you expect ?

My question is, why is OK for the USA to attack a perceived threat on the other side of the world, when it isn't OK for Israel to defend it's citizens from a very real terrorist organisation launching missiles at it ?

Just a thought

Cody

First of all, Hamas is a creation of Israel:

"HAMAS--RELATIONSHIP WITH ISRAEL
-------------------------------
20. MANY WEST BANKERS BELIEVE THAT ISRAEL
ACTIVELY SUPPORTS HAMAS IN AN EFFORT TO DIVIDE
PALESTINIANS AND WEAKEN THE INTIFADA. THEY
POINT TO THE FACT THAT HAMAS OPERATIVES ACT
BOLDLY IN DISTRIBUTING THEIR LEAFLETS.
SHOPKEEPERS IN JERUSALEM AND NABLUS REPORT THAT,
WHEREAS UNLU LEAFLETS ARE DISTRIBUTED SECRETLY
FOR FEAR OF ISRAELI SECURITY FORCES, HAMAS
OPERATIVES WALK INTO SHOPS AND PRESENT THEIR
LEAFLETS DIRECTLY TO THE OWNERS. MAYOR FREIJ OF
BETHLEHEM CLAIMS THAT MEMBERS OF SOME WELL KNOWN
FAMILIES WHO COLLABORATE WITH ISRAELI OFFICIALS
HAVE BEEN SEEN AMONG HAMAS STREET GANGS IN
BETHLEHEM. FURTHERMORE, DESPITE MASSIVE
ARRESTS--AND THE PUBLIC IDENTITY OF MANY MB
LEADERS--RELATIVELY FEW HAMAS LEADERS HAVE BEEN
DETAINED. IN RECENT WEEKS, FUNDAMENTALIST
LEADERS HAVE GIVEN INTERVIEWS TO ISRAELI
PUBLICATIONS THAT WOULD HAVE LANDED SECULARIST
LEADERS IN DETENTION. WE BELIEVE THAT, WHILE
ISRAELI FORCES MAY BE TURNING A BLIND EYE TO
HAMAS ACTIVITIES, THERE IS INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE
TO CONCLUDE THAT ISRAEL IS PROVIDING ACTIVE
SUPPORT. "

https://__._/plusd/cables/88JERUSALEM3168_a.html#efmDRFDi0

"EARLIER IN THE UPRISING, SOME ISRAELI
OCCUPATION OFFICIALS INDICATED THAT HAMAS SERVED AS A
USEFUL COUNTER TO THE SECULAR ORGANIZATIONS LOYAL TO
THE PLO. A NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS LOYAL TO THE PLO
ALLEGED THAT THE IDF WAS USING HAMAS FOR SUCH A
PURPOSE."

https://__._/plusd/cables/89TELAVIV14032_a.html#efmAqcAue

Secondly, Israeli solder's have used the "human Shield" method over 1200 times:

Israel admitted to using Palestinians as human shields on more than 1,200 occasions www.ynetnews.com... … More: https://__._/plusd/cables/0

Thirdly, take a look at the pile of wikileaks on Israel and tell me again who the REAL terrorists are?

storify.com...


to answer your question, you fist need to get your facts straight. Mossad created Hamas, the CIA created ISIS with Mossad.

a reply to: cody599

My question is, why is OK for the USA to attack a perceived threat on the other side of the world, when it isn't OK for Israel to defend it's citizens from a very real terrorist organisation launching missiles at it ?

Because it's the famous lines the U.S. always uses when engaged in a conflict overseas..."It's a threat to America's Interests." or "The U.S. is a superpower and we have to defend our allies." Take your pick.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: cody599

My question is, why is OK for the USA to attack a perceived threat on the other side of the world, when it isn't OK for Israel to defend it's citizens from a very real terrorist organisation launching missiles at it ?

Because Jews are being threatened in one instance and Christians are being threatened in the other instance.

Hate to be the one to point out the obvious. . . . .

Those Christians didn't steal the land and start murdering it's inhabitants. Maybe that's why?

I'd rather see some other country handle ISIS. America has done enough bad to the world. Why isn't Israel handling it? Britain? France? China? Russia? Mexico? But those people need help. Israel needs shown the door and back to Europe.

a reply to: cody599

Cody...I respect you, and believe your a great person. I pray there will be peace some day..

We all have our reasons for feeling the way we do, and your feelings are respected also - even in disagreement over some of the particulars.

take care.

I saw an old video yesterday which perfectly sums up the generation after generation of pure stupidity of man. Oh how I yearn for the power to help rid those feelings of hatred and possession this world is infected with.



Here's the list in order of appearance.

Early Man
Canaanite
Egyptian
Assyrian
Israelite
Babylonian
Macedonian/Greek
Greek/Macedonian
Ptolemaic
Seleucid
Hebrew Priest
Maccabee
Roman
Byzantine
Arab Caliph
Crusader
Mamluk of Egypt
Ottoman Turk
Arab
British
Palestinian
European Jew/Zionist
PLO/Hamas/Hezbollah
State of Israel
Guerrilla/Freedom Fighter/Terrorist
and finally…
The Angel of Death

Link