The Sinister Forces of ISIS, Muslim Fundamentalism, and a little of my History

Forgive me for the length of this post, but I fell something must be said.

Does anybody here know “Muslim” religious fundamentalist of the kind like ISIS and their mentality first hand?

I'm not talking about the fundamentalist who are peaceful and decent folks. There are many who haven’t, despite their fundamentalism (which is their right) gone over to the dark side of violence and intolerance.

I mean those like the mind controlled nuts in ISIS.

Well I do. And you can believe ALL the worst said about them.
No…I was never one of them.

Of course I can’t reveal too much here…but

How do I know this?
I use to call the adhan (call to prayer) in a Muslim religious community....We had our own schools, own businesses, and our own Mosque. We could be classified as moderate Muslims. In-fact this was maybe the first Sunni self-sustaining Muslim community in America….Years ago.

We were apolitical, actually, sometime worked for GOP candidates back in the day. We were strict in morality, got many off drugs and believed in moderation in religion and a VERY anti Saudi style Islam. This is a US modern urban center where today you hear about so much crime and violence…

Anyway, In our community we often interfaced with the most rabid fundamentalists…

But we were blessed to have a modern thinking Imam and Sheik who taught us religious tolerance, love, and compassion in Islam, not this crazy violent madness of people like ISIS.

It’s their psychology; there brain dead dogma, that they hold unto like a dog to a bone.
You can’t reason with them. It’s like trying to talk to a crazy person. They are like programmed robots and very dangerous. I know first hand.

My training in psychology, religion, and metaphysics, and just living and learning tells me all religious fundamentalist of any religion who have gone over to the dark side (that is violence in the name of God and intolerance) are like minded to religious literalists like ISIS.

In our community the Saudis infiltrated it with their oil money as well the CIA.
In-fact a CIA agent told the leader of our community regarding the members” these are our people; we won’t let you get too big”

When the Saudis infiltrated the community they tried to bend us to their religious philosophy of literalism and fundamentalism: eating with your hands, making woman cover their faces, damming other religions to hell, believing in eternal hell, how they distort the Jihad concept, and attacking other people of different faiths, what we considered non Islamic lunacy created by the 17th century reformer Abdul Wahhab, something foreign to Islam up until then.

Anyway, to make a long story short you might say we won the arguments and the battles but lost the war.

The community was rent asunder, helped by the Saudi infiltration with their corrupting money and power.

Though we stayed fast to moderate Islam and never went over to the darkness of Wahhabi Islam. But after rejecting them it just so happened the community fell apart.

Our leader resisted and would always tell us when they visited our mosque
“Just win your argument”

That was easy because these people lack a lucid thinking capacity and are clogged with dogma they repeat from their sinister and ignorant imams.

That’s why you have me, a progressive of Muslim heritage and one person who hates war more than anything, one of the biggest supporters of BOOTS ON THE GROUND!NOW! Not necessarily American

Why? Because I fear after this is done there will be horrors found that we will regret not moving fast enough. Of course I hope it doesn’t happen but I think that is wishful thinking…

The mentality of these religious fundamentalist of this ilk is strikingly ignorant, robotic and dangerous.

It breaks my heart to think of these savages murdering my Christian brothers and the Yezidis and even Muslims who don’t believe in their insanity…

You can’t reason with them. We tried to tell them “you don’t have to eat with your hands just because the Prophet did it 1400 years ago. Or wear henna, or have a beard.

We would tell them that Muhammad loved and respected Christians and Jews and WOULD NEVER advocate their harm in any way based on their free choice of their religion.

This is all documented but they were so brainwashed by those Saudi Wahhabi Imams, so they wouldn’t listen. Their minds are truly in a state of control by sinister forces likened to acute brainwashing.

If the imam told then to kill they would do it…

And that’s just what is happening now with ISIS and these young ignorant fools who have joined this demonic army.

The world must act, I believe, before it’s too late!

Great thread and thanks for your insight. It's good to have an alternative view like yours when all these horror stories are coming out of the Middle East.

S&F

a reply to: Willtell

Are you from the middle east, or have family there? I have family in Lebanon - although I was born here in US.

I agree with you - except about "western" boots on the ground. I'm way too conflicted about that. It's never turned out well for any of us. Can you recall a time it did? I cannot.

Therefore, when I believe more than anyone that ISIS needs to be exterminated, I cannot help but to believe it must be us, Muslims, who do it.

I just cannot stop feeling like that. We must come together against them. It's the only means to their defeat.

PS. Tons of respect.

I'm with you.
I do not adhere to a specific religious faith, but I know what you say is true. It is unfortunate that EVERY religion has these "extremists" and some are worse then others.

I agree with you that something needs to be done in the name of humanity because, as you stated earlier, when we get there and see what they already did to some people, it will be an impossible burden to bear knowing we/someone could have made a difference if we/they acted quicker. That on top of the fact that I feel my country(usa) had a large part to play in all this, when we arrived over there many years ago, makes non-involvement out of the question to me.

I do not want to see my country go back to this area, but in this case I think they have a big responsibility to bear and need to own up to it.

a reply to: Willtell

Thanks for sharing some of your history.

It definitely helps me to understand more about where your passion towards the topic is coming from!

Thank you, Will.

It truly helps to hear firsthand. Especially from someone Ive come to know and trust here.

Thanks for that.....I have to agree we need to act against these murderers....
Killing seems to have become their religion of choice.....
If we don't act now....well be paying the price later...perhaps not much later either....
Meanwhile they will just keep doing what they are doing....drunk with the blood of those they murder.....
These are not sane people anymore....their religion is death....much like Pol Pot in Cambodia .....
The piles of burning skulls and the stench of death will haunt the world for a long time.....

a reply to: Willtell

Interesting read for sure.

The only question that I really have or the point I want to make is that I'm not sure why people are discounting or ignoring the outside forces at play here.

You mention ISIS. ISUS is an off-shoot of Al-CIAeda, being openly visited by McCain and funded/armed/trained by Obama (the Obama administration, now wanting to give them another $500 million).

Al-CIAeda was the name of the database used by the CIA to track fighters who were being recruited and trained to fight the Russians in Afghanistan.

They were radicalized through US funded religious schools or Madassars (sp?). The US was also having violent versions of the Koran and children's books printed at the University of Nebraska and distributed throughout that region indoctrinating them in "jihad".

And theres plenty of other examples. All of the Moslem "mad men" from Saddam to Osama to Mubarak to the Shaw have been allies, installed or funded by the USA.

And now its being revealed that the head of ISIS is a Mossad agent...

My question is, when will outside forces stop creating, empowering and funding these radicals and their leaders?

When will they stop creating the problems only to then act like humanitarians when its time to go kill them.

Not sure whats so humanitarian about more killing but the media said it makes sense so ok.

Well that certainly provides perspective. Thank you for sharing such a personal experience.

I can't say I agree with a western invasion or re-invasion, you know...same thing, over again, same results. I would however like to see ME nations stand together for a change but what good is hoping for that? It didn't do Gaddafi any good trying.

In other words, you are an Americanized Muslim. You and your community learned how to make the accommodations necessary to keep your faith and appreciate what this country is. And for that, I salute you. There are indeed many like you, but I also understand the conflict between perceived loyalty to country and loyalty to a faith which does teach that it is believers against the world. I don't know how strong that message was translated in your community. There is also the matter of fear. You interact with these individuals regularly while we only know they exist and may never rub shoulders with them as you do. They sound as fanatical as the Christian fundies who would go so far as to bomb clinics, and I know that type frightens me.

I think Noni Darwish described what you seem to be in her book, and she also spoke that your kind was disappearing in the face of the Wahhbist onslaught.

I do know this much ... when a sect snaps so far as to even start turning on its own coreligionists, it's passed the point of no return and needs to be put down like so many rabid dogs. It is evil and no good can come of it.

Thank you so much!

Your OP nearly brought tears to my eyes.

I wish YOUR "brand" of faith would spread like wildfire!

God bless you

a reply to: Willtell

Very interesting perspective --and sometimes perspective rules interpretation. It's critical to understand different perspectives when seeking truth.

On the topic of elusive truth, you may be very disappointed when/if Saudis and the CIA are shown to be behind all this ISIL stuff.

Let's see how this new program of bombing goes. From what I've observed Christian crusaders (which is basically what they are) can't "fix" Muslim problems. Too much hate and history there plus they frankly have been programmed with an intense dislike for Muslim culture. You can't have an engagement built on mutual trust and respect with that pretext.

a reply to: Willtell

Don't even give them the privilege of being called a Muslim... Let them take their selfies and sell their t-shirts but do not call them Muslims... rather expose them for who they really are. We should be telling the story of Dajjal a lot more

a reply to: DarknStormy

I must say I don't know much on Sunni versions of things, but we have prophecies about the Sufyani... and I would say this person al-Baghdadi is trying hard to fit that particular bill.

ETA (an example):

(a list of narrators) from Jaber ibn Yazid al-Jo’fi, who said:

Imam al-Baqer (as) said to me:

“Oh Jaber! Sit still and do not move your hands or legs until you see the signs which I am going to tell you.

The first sign will be a disagreement between the sons of someone. I do not foresee that you will (live long enough) to see that, but narrate this hadith for others after me.

Then a caller will call from the heavens, after which the voice of victory will be heard from around Damascus. Then the earth will collapse in one of Damascus’ villages, named al-Jabiyah, and a portion from the right side of the mosque of Damascus will be destroyed.

Then a group of apostates from among the Turks will rise, and this will be followed by disorder among the Romans. The Turks will come all the way to the island (of Arabia) and the Romans will arrive in Ramlah.

Oh Jaber! In that year, there will be disorder in the West. It will start in Sham first, and the people of Sham will be divided in to three groups: the group of Ashab, the group of Abqa’, and the group of Sufyani. The Army of Sufyani will fight the Army of Abqa’ and will kill all of them. Then Sufyani will fight Ashab and will kill him, after which his only goal will be to come to Iraq.

On their way to Iraq, they will pass by Qarqisah, where they will kill one hundred thousand vigorous men. Then Sufyani will send an army of seventy thousand men to Kufah, where many will be crucified and killed, while others will be taken as captives.

(The narration then continues describing the return of the Imam, and the gathering of the 313)
al-Ghaybah by No’mani 149
Ikhtisas 256

a reply to: Willtell

Thanks for the great thread and for sharing your fascinating perspective on this, unfortunately the world doesn't seem to grasp just how much the Wahhabism is a threat to everything on its way.

If I may ask, what is your take on the Islam movement in Europe? How do you see it evolving, peacefully or radically?

There is a very interesting documentary on ISIS that was just released from VICE, surprisingly I can see on some of the faces some really good and honest people... Not the cold-blood murderers you might expect, but I do know that when brainwashed and feeling pressure by other peers, even good guys can shoot and kill, just like happened in any major war in history, though they will regret on it for the rest of their lives. Bad deeds are hunting good people.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

There are bigger issues than ISIS.. ISIS may be part of the equation but even they were nurtured by something much more powerful than they can ever be. I don't think it's time just yet. But there is a good chance we are close also.

a reply to: DarknStormy

I think you make an excellent point there.

ISIS is just the start, someone is funding them, I dont believe the stories of them getting all their money from Mosul. What funded them before they got there.

More to come I regretfully suspect.

a reply to: DarknStormy

I've been pointing this out across the forum in many posts, as you are certain to have run across. It's an important point, who funded them in the very beginning of their campaign, because who flooded them with more cash than even the most well-funded groups, is certainly who they work for.

4. Flood the area with cash: Once it has intimidated the population, ISIS floods the area with cash to establish local dependency. Its operatives overpay at restaurants and spend extravagant amounts on basic goods from local markets. This restarts a stagnant local economy where few can afford to spend on more than basic necessities. “A man from Dagestan comes here every few days,” one shop owner in the Idlib village of Salqin reported, “First he bought a Samsung Galaxy, a week later he bought an iPad, and then he bought a newer model of the Samsung Galaxy. He must have spent more than $1,000.”

warontherocks.com...

Not even most governments have enough money to flood local economies with money; to the point of kick starting their economies again. One thing is for certain, their backers are not the normal suspects.

But at this point, it may be near impossible to figure out who funded their beginning, but it was sometime around 2011 when they became wealthy enough for all this...to the best of my estimation.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I have a newspaper clip from December last year about ISIS and what they were doing then in Syria is the exact same as what they are doing now in Iraq. The soldiers are sophisticated, even there clothing looks like a professional army, almost ninja like. These guys are being funded by very powerful people. Whether they are from the West or Arabia or both I don't know but what I do know is this - Who ever is funding them and weaponizing them are pretty close to Satan in my eyes.. Even if it is the US Government.

Anyone who is willing to throw money behind these thugs doesn't deserve a gasp of air.