When did Palestine exist as more than a map notation?

I don`t consider the modern day country of palistine to even be a nation,do they have any of the the things that a modern nation has? any infrastructure, industries,jobs, etc?
To me they are just a mob of squatters with a long history of causing trouble.
If I remember my history correctly the modern palistinians actually started in Jordan. They tried to overthrow the government in Jordan but failed.The leaders of the uprising were executed and the rest of the mob was expelled from the country.They moved to syria and then lebanon, in both of those countries they tried to overthrow the governments and failed and were again expelled from those countries also.
They ended up in what is now palistine where they finally succeeded in taking over the government.
They can`t do anything for themselves, they depend on isreal and other countries for everything.
After almost 100 years they still haven`t managed to build a nation for themselves,they are still just an unruly mob causing trouble.
Since the creation of the modern palistine just look at how much progress other countries have made,then look at palistine.Maybe if they spent more of there time and resources building a nation for themselves instead of wasting all their time and resources trying to tear down other nations,they wouldn`t be in the situation they are in now.

a reply to: gladtobehere

Most of these Jews arent even Sephardic. They're Ashkenazis or Eastern European. Many believe that they are actually descendants of the Khazars, converts to Judaism as described in the The Thirteenth Tribe. When you think about the insanity of it, there are Eastern Europeans coming into the Middle East and ordering Palestinian Arabs to abandon their ancestral/indigenous homes and property...

You can not prove this statement. Most people have either read or heard this fallacy over the years and you consider this to be a fact. Yes there are SOME Ashkenazis within Israel however you make it sound as if the Jewish bloodline in Israel is a small minority of people and you are wrong. The Ashkenazis are the minority. You make it sound as if there are no more true Israelis and this is far from the truth. Since the time of King David - all Israel tribes are required to register and to register the births of their sons and daughters. Without getting into a religious debate - the twelve tribes of Israel (bloodline) are in Israel.......not EVERYONE but many, How many? I do not know. Do you? Of course not. Israel takes painful steps to track the heritage of each Jewish family within Israel and around the world because of the demand from the Torah.

originally posted by: soulwaxer
Why does all that matter? Try not to focus on the past, because it doesn't exist.

What we have in the here and now is that Israel has just murdered 400 innocent children of a defenceless people. You know: human beings.
soulwaxer

That defenseless people have launched over 3500 rockets at Israel...just saying...

Just to add that the Brits and French created all the countries around that area that was once the Ottoman empire, a empire that lost WWI. Trans-Jordan is created for the Arab Palestine and Israel was created for the Jewish Palestine. Once Israel was created there was a huge increase of Jews in the country...no sh@t...

But Gaza also had a huge increase of refugees from other Arab nations back when Egypt controlled it all before they lost the 1967 war with Israel and handed the whole pile of crap to them to deal with. Egypt today has secured its border as tightly as Israel has, since they do not want that mess spilling over into their nation either, so has Jordan, which just happens to be about a foot to the west of Gaza... makes one go hmmmm, doesn't it?

originally posted by: Tardacus
If I remember my history correctly the modern palistinians actually started in Jordan. They tried to overthrow the government in Jordan but failed...
They ended up in what is now palistine where they finally succeeded in taking over the government.

To be fair, we ought to remember how they got into Jordan in the first place.
Before the 1967 war, the "West Bank" was part of the kingdom of Jordan, occupied by the same mainly Muslim population that it has now.
Jordan took part in the 1967 war, was defeated, and as a result Israel took over the Jordanian territory as far as the river Jordan itself.
Many of the West Bank people sought refuge on the East Bank. From their viewpoint, they were just passing over from one part of their own country to another part of their own country. In fact the king of Jordan continued to regard the West Bank as part of his own territory (paying pensions and salaries there, I believe) until he renounced it a couple of decades later.

So these people were exiles from the West Bank. It was as exiles that they began calling themselves Palestinians and causing trouble in other countries.
The Palestine of today has a leadership which is partly composed of returned exiles, with a population which mainly consists of people who never left.
So it is not just to refer to them as "squatters". They are the old occupants of the land, who found themselves transferred from Hashemite rule to Israeli control as a result of the events of 1967.

a reply to: Xtrozero

In the latest fracas, IDF snipers started it by shooting two unarmed teens. That led to 3 Israeli teems being kidnapped and killed by a lone cell - code speak for pissed off random Palestinians. Then Israelis kidnapped a Palestinian boy and burned him alive. That led to a rocket retaliation by Hamas. The IDF responded with a rocket and mortar barrage.

People fail to realize most of the retaliation from Hamas has been in response to IDF snipers, who are committing war crimes on an almost daily basis. IDF sniper boasts of killing 13 children in one day. IDF sniper kills unarmed man searching for his family in bomb rubble. Etc.

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u
a reply to: gladtobehere

Most of these Jews arent even Sephardic. They're Ashkenazis or Eastern European. Many believe that they are actually descendants of the Khazars, converts to Judaism as described in the The Thirteenth Tribe. When you think about the insanity of it, there are Eastern Europeans coming into the Middle East and ordering Palestinian Arabs to abandon their ancestral/indigenous homes and property...

You can not prove this statement. Most people have either read or heard this fallacy over the years and you consider this to be a fact. Yes there are SOME Ashkenazis within Israel however you make it sound as if the Jewish bloodline in Israel is a small minority of people and you are wrong. The Ashkenazis are the minority. You make it sound as if there are no more true Israelis and this is far from the truth. Since the time of King David - all Israel tribes are required to register and to register the births of their sons and daughters. Without getting into a religious debate - the twelve tribes of Israel (bloodline) are in Israel.......not EVERYONE but many, How many? I do not know. Do you? Of course not. Israel takes painful steps to track the heritage of each Jewish family within Israel and around the world because of the demand from the Torah.

He knows it's false. I have posted proof that Ashkenazi are descended from the Levant, not Khazars. Hatred cares not for facts.

originally posted by: BiffTurkenton
a reply to: Xtrozero



In the latest fracas, IDF snipers started it by shooting two unarmed teens.

Source?

That led to 3 Israeli teems being kidnapped and killed by a lone cell - code speak for pissed off random Palestinians.

Except it wasn't .. Source this, show me they were random Palestinians with no Hamas affiliation.

a reply to: MrCynic

Palestine certainly didn't belong to the Khazars....

In “The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses,” published in December in the online journal Genome Biology and Evolution, Elhaik says he has proved that Ashkenazi Jews’ roots lie in the Caucasus — a region at the border of Europe and Asia that lies between the Black and Caspian seas — not in the Middle East. They are descendants, he argues, of the Khazars, a Turkic people who lived in one of the largest medieval states in Eurasia and then migrated to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries. Ashkenazi genes, Elhaik added, are far more heterogeneous than Ostrer and other proponents of the Rhineland Hypothesis believe. Elhaik did find a Middle Eastern genetic marker in DNA from Jews, but, he says, it could be from Iran, not ancient Judea.

link

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: MrCynic



Palestine certainly didn't belong to the Khazars....

In “The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses,” published in December in the online journal Genome Biology and Evolution, Elhaik says he has proved that Ashkenazi Jews’ roots lie in the Caucasus — a region at the border of Europe and Asia that lies between the Black and Caspian seas — not in the Middle East. They are descendants, he argues, of the Khazars, a Turkic people who lived in one of the largest medieval states in Eurasia and then migrated to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries. Ashkenazi genes, Elhaik added, are far more heterogeneous than Ostrer and other proponents of the Rhineland Hypothesis believe. Elhaik did find a Middle Eastern genetic marker in DNA from Jews, but, he says, it could be from Iran, not ancient Judea.

link

And neither do the Ashkenazi. Even assuming your source is correct ...

Dr Elhaik writes, "The most parsimonious explanation for our findings is that Eastern European Jews are of Judeo-Khazarian ancestry forged over many centuries in the Caucasus. Jewish presence in the Caucasus and later Khazaria was recorded as early as the late centuries BCE and reinforced due to the increase in trade along the Silk Road, the decline of Judah (1st-7th centuries), and the rise of Christianity and Islam. Greco-Roman and Mesopotamian Jews gravitating toward Khazaria were also common in the early centuries and their migrations were intensified following the Khazars' conversion to Judaism

... the starting point is STILL the Levant, and they are semitic. His work suggests a higher Khazar contribution than was previously believed, but the end result is still the same for the purposes of this discussion, the origin is still the Levant. It would be nice of you to kindly stop lying.

Remember the thread you posted your lies in before and then you ran away when I showed you were nothing more than a racist liar? Yeah, I remember too. My question still stands, show me the DNA analysis done on the ancient Khazars. I will wait for it.

More sources for the racist liars who love to keep ignoring the DNA evidence.

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Not only did the genetic researchers corroborate the oral history of an ancient Jewish priestly caste, but they also confirmed the genetic link between both Sephardic and Ashkenazi populations, indicating that before the two populations separated, those who shared the CMH also shared common Israelite ancestry.

DNA research has also revealed significant genetic links between Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jewish populations, despite their separation for generations. With the Cohanim study, researchers found a clear genetic connection between the Jewish priests and a shared Israelite ancestor from the past. Additional genetic results suggest that the Ashkenazim can trace at least part of their ancestry to their Israelite forbearers.

However, J1 is the only haplogroup that researchers consider “Semitic” in origin because it is restricted almost completely to Middle Eastern populations, with a very low frequency in Italy and Greece as well (Semino et al. 2004). The group’s origins are thought to be in the southern Levant. Its presence among contemporary Sephardic and Ashkenazi populations indicates the preservation of Israelite Semitic ancestry, despite their long settlement in Europe and North Africa.

48% of Ashkenazi Cohanim and 58% of Sephardic Cohanim have the J1 Cohen Modal Haplotype

Additionally, many other haplogroups among the Ashkenazim, and among the Cohanim in particular, appear to be of Israelite/Middle Eastern origin.

jogg.info...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Nothing wrong with being Turkic descent so don't get all rowdy. It seems the roman church practically destroyed Judaism by burning the Torah and anyone that practiced it until the Khazars converted to Judaism in the eighth century. But if you feel that scientific research is wrong feel free to publish your own scientific paper on DNA research if you think you are up to it.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



Nothing wrong with being Turkic descent so don't get all rowdy. It seems the roman church practically destroyed Judaism by burning the Torah and anyone that practiced it until the Khazars converted to Judaism in the eighth century. But if you feel that scientific research is wrong feel free to publish your own scientific paper on DNA research if you think you are up to it.

I just showed you published DNA research, using actual DNA, proving 100% they are semitic. Your source even agrees they are Semitic. Being of Turkish descent is fine, lying non stop and jumping to a new thread when you are proven wrong and repeating the same lie you know is a lie is not fine. Maybe you want to actually comment on the content of the DNA analysis that was published and peer reviewed, if you are up to it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Don't call people liars.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



Don't call people liars.

A spade is a spade. The first time I correct you, you are misinformed. After that you are lying. This is not the first time I have corrected you.

a reply to: MrCynic

Well, if nothing else this thread has lived up to the normal expectations of degenerating into conflicting opinions and name calling.
I am finding it harder and harder to participate in intelligent discussions on a varity of subjects since they are increasingly degrading at such a rapid rate.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

So the argument is that the land belongs to the Israelis because evidence shows that they share DNA with the people who are native to that land, and were living there before immigrant jews from europe showed up?

...that's just messed up confusing.

As to the main topic, yes, Palestine, ruled by Palestinians as we know them now, ruling their own land without it being a suzerainty of some other power has never existed. But if we use that as an argument for whether some group should have the right to self-determination, Singapore would never exist. Liberia would never exist. Canada as a country would never exist. The US would never exist. Australia would never exist.

But Palestinian culture has. And Palestinian music. And Palestinian cuisine. And a Palestinian accent. And a Palestinian people.
And for anyone who claims "Bah! But that is just Arab culture", I'm sorry to say, you need to meet some arabs so that you don't end up as ignorant as you sound. Someone meet an Iraqi and an Egyptian and tell me they're the same. Or a Lebanese and Syrian. Or a Saudi and a Jordanian.

Anyone that claims they are right is lying. That region has its fair share of salt grains.
BTW - No one "owns" the right to live there... everyone does.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I presented a DNA scientific article from a JEWISH scientist that knows what he is talking about. You know nothing but hatred, your whole heart is so full of it, it has rotted your every thought and action.

You and many others need turn to God.

a reply to: teamcommander

Unfortunately, you may be right on this. I had hoped to look at and get some background for a historic question. This is a question I feel like I should have been asking a long time ago.

The media is mixed if they address it at all, as if to say we should just assume what we are told is true because we're told it is. History in high school sure didn't cover this. It is possible the topic may come back around and leave behind the petty and ignorant bickering over a fight no one here is even personally involved in. I am hoping it does.

History belongs to everyone though, and history in this case just seemed an assumption more than solid support. The jury is still out for me, and at this rate I guess it may always be. /sigh/