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A new Russian revolution: The cracks are starting to appear in Putin’s Kremlin power bloc

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posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 08:42 AM
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originally posted by: Nikola014
Are you aware of just how many Russian citizens got killed in Ukraine?

No clue, Putin never provided the information the UN requested on that topic.


originally posted by: Nikola014
How many will get killed because west is not doing anything to protect those people?

What would you like us to do? Invade all of Ukraine?
And again there is no evidence provided to support the ethnic Russian excuse Putin gave. Secondly you seem to be ignoring the killing of innocent people by the rebels.



originally posted by: Nikola014
Why don't people here demand that those killings stop and ask for justice just like they do for Palestine?

Because Russia is doing the killing by supporting Russian rebels.

Palestine is another issue and not related to this so please do not bring in an issue that can derail this thread please.



originally posted by: Nikola014
Why do people have double standards?

Good question - ask Putin that question in relation to Chechnya.




originally posted by: Nikola014
Why are you trying to make Russia look bad, when it's quite the opposite? p

Russia is making Russia look bad, not me. Eeehhh no its not the opposite.




originally posted by: Nikola014
You are accusing them on invading a country, while that same country keeps killing Russians? I'm pretty sure bombing unarmed people is a war-crime, so why are you defending it?

Because Russia did invade ukraine. Again there has been no evidence provided by Russia to support the claims they made when the invaded ukraine.

Bombing unarmed people a war crime?
I refer you to Chechnya.

Why are you defending Russian actions?



originally posted by: Nikola014
For the last time. It is not an invasion, it's just a bad way of protecting their citizens. The good way of doing that would be sending their whole army there and dealing with war-crimes in Ukraine. I'm out.



Well, erm, no its an invasion.

Again Russia has no room to lecture on war crimes.


The responses you gave seem to be in line with what the article is talking about. Differing special interests by factions within Russia with Putin trying to make everyone happy all the time.

If Putin ignores the money makers, the economy in Russia is done for.
If Putin ignores the hardliners, he will lose the support of the military while at the same time sending a message to pro russian rebels that they are on their own. A bitter pill to swallow when it was incited by Russia and supplied by Russia.
edit on 31-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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Military & Defense More: Russia Ukraine Instagram
A Russian Soldier's Instagram Posts May Be The Clearest Indication Of Moscow's Involvement In East Ukraine



Moscow has tried to hide its support for pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, but some social media posts from a Russian soldier may reveal even more direct involvement in the region.

Over at BuzzFeed, reporter Max Seddon has the scoop on a 24-year-old soldier named Alexander Sotkin, who has been posting some very interesting photos of his military service, and the locations of the photos are rather telling.

While Seddon has embedded a number of Sotkin's photos, which show him in southern Russia taking selfies, it's this one the communications specialist posted, in rebel-controlled Krasna Talycha in east Ukraine, that's most intriguing:

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...


Click link for remainder of article.

If accurate this could be a part of the friction Putin is seeing. The military may not like the idea of Russian soldiers being killed in Ukraine while Putin throws them under the bus.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdrahow can you not find it suspicous that russia is being attacked after denouncing the petrol dollar ,why are you ignoring it ,maybe skirting around the issue,are you so totally into u.s.a is king and always right,i ask you to look again from the begining objectively



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


No clue, Putin never provided the information the UN requested on that topic.


Just because he didn't provided that information, dpes it means it doesn't count? You have internet. Use it.



What would you like us to do? Invade all of Ukraine?
And again there is no evidence provided to support the ethnic Russian excuse Putin gave. Secondly you seem to be ignoring the killing of innocent people by the rebels.


I'd like from the west to step in and stop this killing of innocent people from Ukraine. You know, not everything I say is connected with Putins words. You've got tons of not mainstream media reporting everyday on just how many people get killed by Ukraine army. I can't recall the last time I've read or seen that pro-Russians killed an innocent people. I am not ignoring anything, pro-Russians don't do it, or at least not as much as Ukraine does.



Because Russia is doing the killing by supporting Russian rebels.

Palestine is another issue and not related to this so please do not bring in an issue that can derail this thread please.


Then what's Russia supposed to do? To just let Ukraine kill every Russian there is? You are not being objective at all. I apologize for bringing up Palestine into this thread, but i felt it's widely connected, because we have mass murdering of innocent people in both cases, and people reacting differently.



Why are you defending Russian actions?

Because that's what exactly what I would have done if i were on Putin's position. Because im sick and tired of double standards from the west and from people here. If the roles were reversed, and we have Russia killing so many innocent civilians, people here would be screaming at loud, asking for justice, calling it war-crimes.

I seriously wonder if i belong to ATS at all...





edit on 404k2014Thursdayam014 by Nikola014 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: Nikola014

It amazes me how logical fallacy seams to be the only line of logic for some. Semantics are in place, so is wishful thinking. I strongly oppose American self appointed role as a world police and their "love" to cause mess all over the world but considering russians as angels and driven by the good dead, IMO is so pathetic.

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's!!!



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Were not talking about Texas or the US. were talking about Russia and Putin

Please stay in topic



You made the statement accusing Putin's Russia of violence. All I was doing is comparing the relatively low casualties in your Georgia/Ukraine examples with the mass murder by the USA in Asia over the last decades and further back too.

Hey I'm very pro USA most of the time, but they are doing the dirty with Russia and its sphere of influence. Please be careful before accusing others of violence when some people sit today on the land won very recently from probably the greatest continental genocidal campaign in modern times.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Believe I read that he did not send in units to Crimea. He didn't have to. According to the agreement they had with Ukraine they were allowed to have those service men in there. He simply activated them is all.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: Nikola014




What Putin had done to make you think he would blow up whole world?

I don't necessarily think he would blow up the world but I do think he could destabilise it to the point of a full scale war

I don't know what Putin would do if his position as leader were threatened but I doubt he'd go down without a fight.

edit on 31-7-2014 by gortex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:13 AM
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My guess Putin would just eliminate the Oligarchical troublemakers as a warning to others. In the end as long as he keeps the military on his side who is going to stop him. The U.S. Nato? I don't think so.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

While i do expect freezing russian mafia assets will have an impact, i doubt this intelligence rapport to be particularly intelligent.

Putin isnt doing what tha hardliners want him to. They want war, because the west is completely bankrupt. And Putin isnt even bothered with the western propaganda.

But, any ogliarch in Russia would know, that the future of finance is within BRICS.

So, i suspect this is another rapport about wmd in iraq, report. Faked.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Nikola014

I don't necessarily think he would blow up the world but I do think he could destabilise it to the point of a full scale war



Putin isnt a general, hes an intelligence officer. And he is playing the safe game, when he shouldnt ... Because i suspect he lacks the proper military advice.

The truth is, Russia should use Ukraine to escalate the war. That is in BRICS interrest, and hit Europe while its down, bankrupt.
edit on 31/7/2014 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin should ignore the money makers in Rusia because they are for the most part western backed mob.

Th United States of America is bankrupt. No one sane is going to make any future contracts with a bankrupt nation ...

The future of finance is Asia, adn Russia knows this. And, your country is done for ... If Putin goes away, its limely you will find hardliners in his place. Youll get your war, but you will lose it.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: bjarneorn




Putin isnt a general, hes an intelligence officer

He's a president , or is that a prime minister , or perhaps as some believe a Tsar , either way he's a very powerful man who has shown he isn't scared to break a few eggs to make the omelet he wants .



The truth is, Russia should use Ukraine to escalate the war. That is in BRICS interrest

That is in no one's interest , the world has more than enough war at the moment thank you.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: bjarneorn
a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin should ignore the money makers in Rusia because they are for the most part western backed mob.

Th United States of America is bankrupt. No one sane is going to make any future contracts with a bankrupt nation ...

The future of finance is Asia, adn Russia knows this. And, your country is done for ... If Putin goes away, its limely you will find hardliners in his place. Youll get your war, but you will lose it.





General Dynamics Awarded $25 Million by Lockheed Martin for Continued Work on U.S. Air Force GPS III Program


www.broadwayworld.com... m-20140729#.U9pi6JK9KSM


One of countless contracts awarded, in fact technology will continue to come from America although not exclusively. I think its wishful thinking to assume the world will abandon the war machine.....too much money involved.

As for the OP:




Despite ongoing sanctions, Russia is about to get a big infusion of cash from the U.S. government. NASA recently renewed a contract that allows Russia to ferry U.S. astronauts to the International Space Station. The U.S. is, essentially, cutting Russia a $457.9 million check for its services -- six seats on a Russian Soyuz spacecraft, training and launch prep, landing and crew rescue and limited cargo delivery to and from the International Space Station. This contract also adds additional support at the Russian launch site.


www.washingtonpost.com...

If we were expecting Russia to collapse anytime soon, I'd doubt we'd be paying them, despite sanctions, nearly a half BILLION dollars. Just my two cents.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: Xcathdrahow can you not find it suspicous that russia is being attacked after denouncing the petrol dollar ,why are you ignoring it ,maybe skirting around the issue,are you so totally into u.s.a is king and always right,i ask you to look again from the begining objectively



God not this argument again...

Russia and China have been trading in their respective currencies for a few years now. The US dollar is not the only reserve currency in use. The Canadian dollar and the Euro are also used. The same holds when nations buy oil.

I am not ignoring it. However, the manner in which you are portraying it is incorrect and does not support the argument you are trying to make.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: Nikola014
Just because he didn't provided that information, dpes it means it doesn't count? You have internet. Use it.

Putin made the claims - support it with evidence.


originally posted by: Nikola014
I'd like from the west to step in and stop this killing of innocent people from Ukraine. You know, not everything I say is connected with Putins words. You've got tons of not mainstream media reporting everyday on just how many people get killed by Ukraine army. I can't recall the last time I've read or seen that pro-Russians killed an innocent people. I am not ignoring anything, pro-Russians don't do it, or at least not as much as Ukraine does.

If you want the fighting to stop tell Russia to remove their forces from Ukraine territory and stop arming the rebels.

problem solved.


originally posted by: Nikola014
Then what's Russia supposed to do? To just let Ukraine kill every Russian there is? You are not being objective at all. I apologize for bringing up Palestine into this thread, but i felt it's widely connected, because we have mass murdering of innocent people in both cases, and people reacting differently.

You, like Putin, keeps making these claims about killing all Russian in Ukraine and, like Putin, you have failed to support your accusation.

My guess would be you, like Putin, can not support the claim.



originally posted by: Nikola014
Because that's what exactly what I would have done if i were on Putin's position. Because im sick and tired of double standards from the west and from people here. If the roles were reversed, and we have Russia killing so many innocent civilians, people here would be screaming at loud, asking for justice, calling it war-crimes.

Ironic - The very issues you have with the west is acceptable when done by Russia - check.




originally posted by: Nikola014
I seriously wonder if i belong to ATS at all...

Well, ATS does not own you so no, you dont belong to ATS.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: Xcathdra

Believe I read that he did not send in units to Crimea. He didn't have to. According to the agreement they had with Ukraine they were allowed to have those service men in there. He simply activated them is all.


He did and I provided the links to where uptin admitted it.

Secondly please read the agreement between Ukraine and Russia. What you and others keep trying to argue is not supported by the agreement.

Any change in russian forces must be submitted to Ukraine for review and approval.
What military equipment Russia can have in Crimea was also spelled out in the treaty.
The treaty prohibitis armed Russian units from moving into the countryside.

Russia violated the treaty, which is in fact an armed invasion of Ukraine.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: Nikola014
I seriously wonder if i belong to ATS at all...

Well, one thing you can expect here is a diversity of opinion. If you have a problem with that, then this may not be the site for you.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: bjarneorn
The truth is, Russia should use Ukraine to escalate the war. That is in BRICS interrest, and hit Europe while its down, bankrupt.


BRICS is 5 nations.

Your faith in an organization that is based on trade to wage and win a war is without merit.

BRICs is 20 years out before it can bring the economies into alignment to be a counter to the system in place now.

The failure in your argument revolves around Putins actions in Ukraine. Do you really think nations are going to flock to BRICs based on Russian behavior? Putins ego has all but assured that BRICs will be set back a decade if not longer.



posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: Rosinitiate

The latest, and last, contract with Russia goes through 2017 and has provision for landing in 2018.

The window needed for the US to bring back its own means of getting astronauts to and from the ISS. The 2018 time frame is also when Putins term as President ends.



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