originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Helious
I would add; when the constitution was written leeches were still a part of medical and x-rays were unheard of, health care then and the constitution. thanks for the lol's
originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: dieseldyk
Capitalism is Crony Capitalism. I cannot think of a single instance where "you scratch my back and...." has not applied in capitalist transactions.
In theory there is a magical/mystical "invisable hand" but theory and practise are two entirely different realms...
You can prove me wrong by a single example where there wasn't 'crony' in the capitalism.
originally posted by: ForteanOrg
originally posted by: bjax9er
There is no such thing as utopia.
Utopia cannot exist and will never exist.
Man is imperfect
Speak for yourself, please
Human beings are the result of millions of years of cooperation. Without cooperation our species would not have survived. If given half a chance we will help each other, will take care of others, regardless if it earns us a buck or not. We can't help it, its in our genes.
All philosophies on political systems are more or less useless - a political system is temporary, but humans adhere to much older built-in rules they can't ignore. Though there are some distorted creatures amongst us that spent their lives fighting their natural urges in order to gain "wealth" - they are the exception. In general human beings adhere to these built-in rules. Therefore what needs to be done is already being done and we're doing it regardless of the political system we're in. A higher force is driving us.
The world is working together towards the same goals: removal of poverty, reduction of the population, better health care, individual freedom and free education. And in the end the total removal of the need to labour, instead being allowed to focus on the really important things: care for others, education, arts and science.
You need proof, of course. Well, just study the numbers.
Because it is impossible for the planet to sustain ever growing numbers of people we work on reduction of the planets population. And this is done regardsless the political system we're in. Driven by the same force that drives us to procreate in barren times. As the well being of the average Earth inhabitant grows, we also see a drop in the average number of children per woman worldwide. It fell from almost 5 to 2.4 during the last 50 years and if we continue the trend will be round 2 (which means: the population stabilises) in about 2040, WORLDWIDE.
We also "feel" it is important that wealth is spread more evenly. And lo! again - it proves we are working on that too, regardless of our political systems. Have you ever seen Hans Roslings presentations? If not, you should. It will take away most of the doom and gloom perspective we have on our planet and the development of our population.
So, yes, Utopia can exist. And it will - and we may even live to see it.
originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: TheJourney
I come from a hedonistic and Aristolean philosophical background, so the libertarian movement in America was very inspiring to me, but I agree with you in part. I appreciate the freedom and social liberation aspect of libertarianism, but the anarcho-capitalist backbone is disquieting. I'm an economic mutualist, but I believe democracy must be penetrating and decentralized in order for it to offer optimal levels of freedom. You need a universal system of basic justice, a basic system of contract law and a confederacy of microstates that affords people the opportunity of travel. If you give them these basic things, they can vote with their feet and move to places that give them optimal levels of freedom and opportunity.
The mistake is assuming that there is only one type of paradise.
Even a very small oasis can be paradise in the midst of a vast desert.
Anyway, true multiculturalism and true diversity will lead to a very cultured and very satisfying world. That can never happen so long as we have centralized policy makers making one-size-fits-all decisions for large masses of voiceless people.
originally posted by: Stuship
a reply to: TheJourney
I don't disagree with you in principle, but I think the challenge to any Utopian societies is free will. Now if you were to provide each person with exactly the same services, and income, there would always be individuals who used their services and income better than the others.
The real challenge to any Utopian ideals is general intelligence. There will always be stupid people, and that is why capitalism works. Stupid people believe they have a shot, and they pay their stupid tax when they buy lottery tickets, so they have a distant shot of joining the millionaire club.
The real question is what would you do with all the stupid people in your society and how would you handle free will?
originally posted by: Bluesma
I think it is relevant to consider what "greed" actually is.
For me, it is simply the will to power. Power is what all human gravitate towards- whether it be direct, or indirect.
In a Capitalistic society, money is the symbol of power, so people want money.
In a Socialistic society, power is symbolized by community acceptance and respect. So people want that.
I have been asked how, in a universal medical care system such as we have here,
where doctors don't make tons of money, why would anyone bother going to school for all that time to become a doctor then???
Apart an inner desire to heal and care for others, there is the added benefit of community respect. That gives them much power. Because people have a tendency to bend rules according to the individual, that can get you better prices everywhere, access to goods and services that will be subtly refused members of the community who hold a lower position of respect.
I don't think you can rid any grouping of humans of the tendency to desire power, in any form. It is more a question of what form that power will take in the collective mind.