A fake atrocity video from Gaza

originally posted by: Fylgje

originally posted by: lightedhype
I am so tired of hearing about 'Hamas Rockets.'

In America - we call those things fireworks. Give me a damn break. I am pretty sure more rednecks blew themselves up this past 4th of July in America than 'Hamas rockets' have killed Israelis.

Israel on the other hand is using some serious ordinances.

We make some killer fireworks that are probably far more powerful than anything Hamas has

But not many get blown up that I know of.
Anyways, if the vid is real or fake is irrelevant. Israel stole the land, threw people out of their houses and murdered them, then moved into those houses, then built more houses; It spread like a disease. What do people expect the Palestinians to do? In 1948 an atrocity happened when Britain, with the help of the US, gave land that is already inhabited to "zionists" who think that only they should live in the "holy land". Now Israel is at it again. Israel should at the very least acknowledge the 1967 borders until the people there can completely throw them out and make them go back to wherever they came from in 1948.

Not what happened at all thats a myth. Pretty much started in 1920 which was Jewish territory at the time. Arabs moved in and began attacking jews in the area .This became known as the first arab riots they were trying to drive the jews out of Jerusalem and it quickly spread to other area such as Jaffa many Jewish farmers were killed as arab nationals started attacking their homes.This led to a crackdown by the British and many British troops were attacked as well from roving bands of Arabs. In 1922 these arabs separated forming trans Jordan which later would become Jordan. This was caused by the balfour documents made by league on nations predecessor of the the UN. It basically called for Britain to allow Jews to move to the area and set it up as a Jewish homeland. Realize there was quite a bit of hatred even in Britain at the time towards Jews. Thats why Britain didnt want to set it up as a Jewish state but instead referred to it as there homeland. Britain thought it had the solution here since they split the area of Palestine pretty much at the current borders between Israel and Jordan.

However the Arabs in Jordan were not happy with the separation into two states in 1922 to 23 several attempts were made to form one government between the two states they failed miserably. mostly because of continued arguments over Jerusalem itself and who should be in charge. The Jewish sector quickly started expanding both economically and population wise. At first this was a benefit to the arabs gave them places to work but than this rapid expansion started causing hostilities and accusations that Jews were trying to expand into areas of Trans Jordan. This comes to a head in 1929 when a man by the name of Haj Amin al-Husseini, initiated a campaign of false rumors about Jewish threats against Muslim holy places, followed by calls for attacks on Jews. Soon Jewish communities all over Palestine were under attack. In some cities Jews succeeded in defending themselves, but in other areas regular massacres on Jews took place. In Hebron 67 Jews were murdered, and the rest of the Jewish inhabitants driven out, ending two thousand years of uninterrupted Jewish presence in the town.

In reaction to the Arab violence of 1929 the British leadership in Palestine tightened the rules for Jewish immigration and the sale of land to Jews. But after protests from both The Zionist Organization and The League of Nations, and an intense debate about Britain's continued support for the Jewish National Home, the provisions were annulled.And than Hitler shows up on the scene needless to say Jewish immigration to the holy land increased. Hitler seeing this as a way to cause trouble for the British started backing the Arabs creating animosity against the jewish population. German and Italian anti-Jewish propaganda flooded into the area .This caused many Arab political commentators to disseminate myths of Zionist plans to kill Arabs and desecrate mosques, and called for a Palestinian "Jihad" against both Jews and the British.This leads again to attacks on Jewish farms in 1936 as a protest against the immigration policy of the British mandate, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, organized an general strike and total Arab boykott of the mandate. Spontaneous violence erupted, followed by organized attacks on Jewish farming communities by Arab gangs. Civilian Jews were murdered, livestock killed and crops destroyed. The British accepted a Jewish demand for the arming of 3000 Jewish guards ("ghaffirs"), which, together with the Jewish underground organization, Haganah, established in reaction to the Arab riots of the 1920's, partly succeeded in defending Jewish settlements against the Arab attacks. The revolt and the accompanying strike was quite costly for the Arab community, and by autumn the strike was called off, and the violence died out.

In 1937 Hitler Nazi-Germany also rejected any partition of Palestine, which could lead to "a Jewish position of power", and intensified its efforts to strengthen its position among the Arabs. In July 1937 the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, expressed his personal admiration of the new Germany. The Arab press in Palestine too, showed support for the European Nazism and fascism, and copied energetically from the European anti-Semitic propaganda. In exchange the Nazis supplied weapons for the Palestinian Arabs' fight against the Jews.Sound familiar one of the early proxy wars between two countries.

The British not wanting to be embroiled in a war in 1939 basically gave the area to the Arabs they were tired of dealing with arab uprisings and creating an Arab majority state, but was warned by David Ben-Gurion leader of the Palestinian jews, that a Jewish uprising in Palestine could be in every way as destructive as the recently ended Arab revolt.

Then came world war 2 and the Jews sided with Britain the Arabs of course Germany This is where my favorite chapter comes in dealing with Lawrence of Arabia.Any way the history lesson here involves showing that Jews indeed did live there and this struggle between Jews and Arabs go back centuries. I can just as easily show you the conflicts in the 1800s as well i chose this area because Hitler was a large part of the problems we see today.

a reply to: dragonridr

Very insightful post, however the situation in the West Bank is nowhere like this as of today.

The simple fact is Gaza is under siege, civilians are being murdered and people deprived of basic, everyday needs:

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

History is very much in play here dont assume the palistinians to be victims either. Both sides have and continue to look for reasons to fight. For example people dont realize the threat Palistinians pose there is constant terrorist attacks not counting rockets. The rocket thing flairs up when Israel goes after terrorists or even arrests bombers. Then Hamas demands them to be freed and the cycle continues. For Israels part they now are not concerned with casualties anymore they get stuckin revenge. Which means now abything that happens is Hamas and tbey dont need anything more than an accusation.

Israel is so stuck in this circle of hate they can't see they are making things worse.

a reply to: dragonridr

Wish more people knew about history then make ignorant accusations, the Arabs around Israel Must respect them, they can't get rid of them.. They failed in the past an will fail again.

Tired of hearing all these Anti Israel propaganda. The brits gave that land to Israel so get over it Hamas and any other Arab against Israel.. How about this, I'll make an ignorant statement and ask the Muslims to continue to kill each other..Where's protests against terrorists killing there own..i.e Syria, Libya, Iraq..

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
a reply to: live2beknown

Really it's sad, that people are all on Gaza side, but really..If Israel didn't have Iron Dome, your opinions would be different

Yeah mate, most people are on the side of the Palestinains because Israel has been stealing their land for 50 plus years, mistreating them and now slaughterring them.

One video that may or may not be fake propaganda still means sh*t.

This ain't fake, imagine you and your family sitting down for din-dins, think you'd make it out?

Kind of interesting that they had a camera already focused an the building that got hit, as if they knew it was going to be struck. Perhaps they knew because they were using that site to store or launch weapons from?

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
a reply to: dragonridr

Very insightful post, however the situation in the West Bank is nowhere like this as of today.

The simple fact is Gaza is under siege, civilians are being murdered and people deprived of basic, everyday needs:

Yet, if Hamas would take the money they spend on missiles, they would have millions more to supply those same people with their basic needs. Medicine, not missiles!

a reply to: Expat888

Dear Expat888,

I think, if we keep the conversation narrow, we can avoid getting carried away into the wild flights of emotionaslism which are preventing any serious discussion of the issue.

Take our brief exchange, as an example. I asked you if you had any evidence that source in the OP was false. Instead of answering simply, "no" which is reasonable, you describe your experiences of people being killed. You're experiences may be true or not. I choose to believe you. Others may not. It doesn't matter to this thread, which is being hijacked.

This is one of the main reasons why there is no easy solution to this problem. Hamas screams "Israel must be destroyed, they are completely evil, we are only innocent victims." While effective as a battle cry, it does nothing to reach a solution.

I'm not trying to stop anyone from speaking, feel free to explain the passion behind your opinion. Passion is good, usually.

But if you, or Hamas, or some other posters on ATS are seriously trying for peace, then we have to lose the blind hatred and try to figure something out together. It appears, although I could be mistaken, that you and Hamas, and others, only want victory over Israel. If the goal is to fight Israel until it is destroyed, then it is perfectly reasonable for Israel to fight Hamas and Palestinian Jihadists until they are destroyed.

Pick your side. Those of you who believe that Hamas should destroy Israel are winning the battle of lies and propaganda. Pray that Israel does not decide to make this a serious military battle. (And if you think Israel is serious now, you're mistaken. I know you're mistaken since Hamas still exists.)

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: charles1952


It's a fake, get it? Hamas lies about the killing of civilians. They've done it many times before. That's their plan. They don't have a chance militarily. I don't know whom they could beat in a war, maybe a South Pacific island. They're just trying to get undeserved sympathy, and when caught, they run and hide by changing the subject. Cowards who won't even make it to a Paradise staffed by Nancy Pelosi and Helen Thomas look-a-likes.

It's not just hamas, The UN also said 80% of casualties in recent attacks where civilians.
www.telegraph.co.uk...

that video that shows the people video recording that building that got hit..is fake and debunked already, but nice try, It's been edited..and how would they know to look at that building? lol..ignorant people..seriously..

originally posted by: live2beknown
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

alright mate, let me ask you this..If Israel didn't have Iron Dome and all those 2500 rockets killed thousand of Israeli civilians, would your thoughts be different?

Even before Israel had Iron Dome, the amount of injuries (much less deaths) from Rockets was actually very low in comparison to reciprocal Palestinian deaths as a result of IDF attacks.

As a comparison, between 2000-2011 (the year of Iron Domes deployment) there we 11,933 rocket and mortar attacks into Israel by Palestinians. 21 Israeli's were killed.

In the same period, 6,563 Palestinians were killed by the IDF.

originally posted by: live2beknown
The brits gave that land to Israel so get over it Hamas and any other Arab against Israel..

Er, no we didn't. Britain actually tried to stop the massive Jewish immigration in the interwar years and in the run-up to the 1947 creation of the state of Israel, was under attack by Jewish terrorists who murdered British soldiers indiscriminately.

It was the UN who created the State of Israel, not the UK and even then, the lands "given" to the Jews were roughly equal to that given to the Palestinians! See below map of 1947 Israel.



Once they got their state, the Jewish settlers went about forcibly evicting as many Arabs as possible and even slaughtering whole villages of those who refused to be intimidated.

Since then, Israel has stolen more and more of the land until we have the situation now where the Palestinians are hemmed into a couple of tiny gheto's.

Erm, it is a one sided story.

Israel are terrorists FACT
Israel kills innocent families FACT
Israel kills kids FACT
Israel spun the whole reason this episode started FACT
Any country the fights against occupation is not a terrorist FACT
You cant be a terrorist fighting for freedom in your own territiry FACT
Israel is using illegal weapons in civilian areas FACT
The french resistence in WW2 fighting against nazi occupation were not terrorists FACT
Jews fighting back in warsaw ghettos were not terrorists FACT
Bombing UN controlled buildings will not make the world like you FACT
Using human shield argument is pointless as everyone knows israel ignores thay anyway FACT
Being anti zionist is allowed FACT


Want me to provide evidence for all of the above? Nah, I will just side-step anything you ask me, and ignore the questions and only reply with things that support my claims with even less evidence.... See,we can all learn things from zionists

a reply to: djyorkie

Since you're ignorant, lets here the stories about Palestine and Hamas?

And yes, Israel took some land, when countries are attacking you, you fight back and take their land..every country in the world is Guilty of this..USA, America, Britain..etc maybe if Hamas would just FK off and stop shooting rockets into Israel this would never happen. I swear Hamas are cowards, instigates stuff, shoots rockets into another country then crys at the end..Gees America shot how many Drone missiles and killed how many civilians? So why all the hate towards Israel.

Both sides are juvenile. Petty children in the masks of leaders.

They should both say "I'm sorry", grow up and eat food together.

And stop being silly animals.

MM

originally posted by: live2beknown
And yes, Israel took some land, when countries are attacking you, you fight back and take their land..

No, you don't. According to the UN Charter, land can only be annexed from conflict as part of a negotiated solution - one sided annexations are history and is precisely what caused WW2 and led to the founding of the UN and the subsequent Charter every country signed.

originally posted by: live2beknown
every country in the world is Guilty of this..USA, America, Britain..

Do please provide examples of one of these countries annexing land as a result of conflict in the post-WW2 world..

originally posted by: live2beknown
etc maybe if Hamas would just FK off and stop shooting rockets into Israel this would never happen. I swear Hamas are cowards, instigates stuff, shoots rockets into another country then crys at the end..

As has been pointed out, long before this little episode and the three Jewish kids in Jerusalem, Palestinian children were being killed by Israeli snipers et al but no-one bats an eyelid.

Just one story - there are many

originally posted by: live2beknown
Gees America shot how many Drone missiles and killed how many civilians? So why all the hate towards Israel.

Two wrongs don't make a right - any adult with half a brain knows this.

a reply to: stumason

Britain actually tried to stop the massive Jewish immigration in the interwar years and in the run-up to the 1947 creation of the state of Israel, was under attack by Jewish terrorists who murdered British soldiers indiscriminately.

I may have posted this before on another thread - but I have a relative who served in the British Army in Palestine at that time. We have a photo album containing photos of the area at the time and of daily life for the people and many historic buildings, in Palestine, Syria, Iraq. Sadly many of those buildings, especially in Syria are probably now in ruins or severely damaged.

Each photo has a hand written caption. One very striking and telling photograph is of a derailed steam train. The caption reads "Train derailed by Jewish terrorists."

a reply to: Kram09

Quite - my own grandfather served out there after the War (he wasn't de-mobbed as he was a Professional from before the War) and we have similar photo's in our collection.

People seem to forget the violence perpetrated by the Jews in the run up to and immediately after the founding of Israel, but then wonder why all the Arab's are pissed, not to mention the fact Israel has constantly encroached on Arab land so now a country that was roughly 50/50 split is now mostly under Israeli control, with the Palestinians trapped in two ghetto's.........

Say's it all really and when you see it for what it is, I am at a loss as to how anyone can defend Israel.

Yep, im ignorant.. And my ignorance tells me that hamas fires the rockets due to having an f'ing wall built around them, with civilians being taken prisoner for no reasons, for not being able to fish their seas, for having their children and wives killed, for having irregular electicity that is constantly shut down by zionists, for lack of medical supplies, for the constant drones overhead, for the theft of their homes and land, for not being free.
If you did thiş to me, then I would also be making rockets out of sugar and goat poo and firing them at you.

With your superior intellect, you must then also class the jews in the warsaw ghettos and the french. Resistence of WW2 also terrorists.

My ignorance classes them as heroes

Why in heavens name can't both sides just stop the fighting and come to an agreement that leads to a road for peace.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: live2beknown
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

alright mate, let me ask you this..If Israel didn't have Iron Dome and all those 2500 rockets killed thousand of Israeli civilians, would your thoughts be different?

Even before Israel had Iron Dome, the amount of injuries (much less deaths) from Rockets was actually very low in comparison to reciprocal Palestinian deaths as a result of IDF attacks.

As a comparison, between 2000-2011 (the year of Iron Domes deployment) there we 11,933 rocket and mortar attacks into Israel by Palestinians. 21 Israeli's were killed.

In the same period, 6,563 Palestinians were killed by the IDF.

oh, well that's ok then....please, Israel, allow the Hamas to keep firing their missiles at you, because they haven't yet killed civilians