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Originally posted by Pelayo
But the EU will keep running with or without the UK.
If the Brit people don�t feel themselves satisfied by the EU, they should look for a solution instead of keeping stuck saying �I want to go out�.
�Not true, NATO has safe guarded western europe against the war machine of the USSR.� Err�.Not true Wizard. Look at the quantities, qualities and deployments of armament during the cold war. Look for who took the decisions. USA has safe guarded western Europe against the URSS.
NATO is the best instrument that the Americans have for keeping Europe under their military boot during the next decades.
as unique as the French or the Spanish or the Portuguese or the Dutch people is. The point is that the Brit people are more distrustful than the other Europeans.
The economic global war, the war of the alliances, the war of the international influences towards countries that you can not just attack by military force, i.e. China, USA, India, Japan�
You are wrong. The Roman empire was a global Euro-Mediterranean super power.
Oh, the different languages. In Spain there do exist 4 different languages. How many different languages were talked all across the Roman or the Spanish or the Brit empire?
The reasons of the style �Europe will not because it never had�� or �We will be because we always have been� and �France is not an ally because Napoleon attacked us� are just a ballast.
The EU is the �first time ever� for a lot of things.
this is a matter of perception. The EU is not a rope that bind me, but I want to be part of the rope that keeps united the EU.
Well, do you really think that a war between France and Germany, or Spain and UK is a realistic possibility nowdays?
You are denying the possibility of the change.
Ok the things had been this way during centuries, but this doesn�t mean that the things will keep this way during the next centuries. This is what many Americans would like, but now the things are changing.
And in my opinion you neglect such a reality.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Funnily enough Wizard how do you feel when the criticisms you make of the EU are applied to the UK?
How do you respond to the Scot, Irish or Welsh who say they are being dominated and submerged by mere English-ness dressed up in it's alternative name 'British'?
....and what do you say to the loony English fringe that claim England would be better off alone?
Originally posted by UK Wizard
I'm not sure what you mean, explain...
England, has attempted - murderously - at various times - over several centuries - to extinguish the identities of the other 'home nations' and to impose it's political will upon them.
Yet you still see value in the UK?
Originally posted by Pelayo
Came on Wizard!! The EU is virtually running without the UK in many aspects. Look the euro. Loosing the UK would be a great lost, but this would not be the end of the EU if Germany, France, Italy and Spain (in arrow) keep on working.
It seems to me that you want for the UK a compromise of eternal supremacy.
What you can be sure about is that if the UK go out of the EU, in some decades the influence of the UK around the World will be null.
So, why don�t you trust in your European fellows?
I have the impression that too many Brits fear Europe.
Such as an united superpower made by an alliance of different countries with different Histories and languages without any precedent in all the History of the Human Being. The EU is the most amazing example of ex-enemies working together like brothers.
Change is always good. Otherwise we would keep painting deer inside caves.
Is the rival to be defeated (in the sportive meaning) by Europe.
I am ready to do this. I don�t want the American protection anymore. I want America wishing the European protection and asking us before acting around the world instead of doing what they want when they want where they want, as is happening right now.
Originally posted by UK Wizard
Two questions for you Pelayo and you sminkeypinkey.
In your opinion what is the main reason for the existence of the EU.
Where do you see the EU in 20 years time.
And why limit such a alliance to Europe....why not the world
[edit on 28-12-2004 by UK Wizard]
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- 2) good relations with most of the world except for the USA
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Why cannot our previously staggeringly troubled part of the world look to sorting itself out; why should the EU not concern itself with Europe alone?
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey Why should the EU lose sight of it's focus and purpose, beyond the work still outstanding and necessary to be completed in Europe and wander off to concentrate on limitless global quests - especially given the 'wider' current 'climate' for any kind of 'UN' type action?
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Why should the EU be criticised for this.....as I said before why not just totally rubbish the UK or junk the UK for 'failing' on this?
Originally posted by UK Wizard
Please don't tell me your one of these anti-US nutters , your judging America on the basis of the current administation.
Because it is selfish and isolationist, Europe is not the only part of the world that matters, it is but a small part, to say stuff the rest of the world and concentrate on just Europe is madness to the highest degree.
Why should the EU exist at all, when there is limitless potential for a more powerful and more productive international alliance, the EU is limited to Europe...but the UN is limited to Earth....sorry to answer a question with a question
Every organisation has criticisms, every person has criticisms, both the UK and the EU are not above this.
Originally posted by UK Wizard
Oh no the evil England, destorying the heritage and identity of all
Well i can asure you I'm not like that, I believe in celebrating our differences and individual heritage.....along with the unity that the UK has brought.
Of course not, but why the hell should we have the waste of our own Government and the EU Government
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
.......why do you think many Scots, Welsh and Irish people to this day harbour deep and genuine anti-English feelings?
a fraction compared to the overall wealth generation created by the EU.
OK, consider this if you really are interested in seeing the world coming together to be freely united. What about those who have not even thought of coming together yet?
Originally posted by UK Wizard
Because they are ignorant, try to live in the present not the past
So without the EU this wealth would automatically disappear would it?
and your reply will be yes, and my next question will be why?
Same could be said about those not wishing to join the EU.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
How about even noticing - and being seen to notice and recogniose - the hurt inflicted by our English imperialism within these isles?
Because you cannot expect to continue to receive all the benefits of membership of the 'club' without being a member of the club.
What benefits are there?
Originally posted by UK Wizard
i can't go back an rewrite history, what am i supposed to do!
What benefits are there?
Originally posted by UK Wizard
Because they are ignorant, try to live in the present not the past
Originally posted by devilwasp
Thanks i love you too man...
Many are angry at what happened and dont like the way it turned out.