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Alternative Union of Europe

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posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 06:15 AM
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@ devilwasp

I feel as if i've said something to offend, the comment wasn't aimed at the entire popultation of each country only those who pick argues and fights with those who aren't of their nationality.
I have absoluty nothing against Scottish, Welsh, Irish people, they are all full of culture of which they are proud of, something us English folk need ourselves.
Sorry if i stereotyped everyone that wasn't the intended purpose of my comment.

@ sminkeypinkey


To name but a few - we benefit in terms of trade


We would access to trade with European countries if we were out of the EU.


we can undertake enterprises we could not afford alone thanks to shared costs


Which we talked about before - the Eurofighter is a good example.


we benefit from the shared research/science base


So we wouldn't have access outside the EU



we have free access to the single biggest single market in the world - without tarrif penalty.


The world is the biggest market and tarrifs are there to stop members leaving.


thanks to the EU Europe is no longer a collection of competing independant nation states heading for the usual hugely damaging and expensive war(s)


No more wars because of the EU



Why not research the matter if you are interested?


I have, i wanted to hear your point of view.




posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
We would access to trade with European countries if we were out of the EU.


- True but without the benefits membership brings.

Also, look at what Norway has to do to maintain it's position in European markets.
Basically they must implement and follow every EU regulation and directive anyway yet they have no input in deciding the nature and detail of those directives or regulations as they are not full EU members.
Otherwise their goods just don't get in, is that your idea of 'better'?.


Which we talked about before - the Eurofighter is a good example.


- Precisely. ......and it goes far beyond Eurofighter/Typhoon.
Look at the trans-European partnerships most of the large (especially high-tech) UK companies are now either a full part of or are working with.


So we wouldn't have access outside the EU


- Well we didn't before so why assume we just would if the UK was (insane enough) to leave the EU?

The scientific communities within the nations across the world relate to each other, that is true, but on nothing like the level it does between the member countries across the EU.


The world is the biggest market and tarrifs are there to stop members leaving.


- Er, no.
The world is not a single market in the manner or terms that the EU is.

Whatever you imagine tarrifs to be about Wizard (who are US tarrifs aimed at stopping leaving then!?) the fact is they exist and as far as Europe is concerned we are on the right side of them as far as the EU (our single largest trading partners) goes.

How many families' actual real-life living standards are you prepared to sacrifice for your ideology of what you imagine this 'fully independant' UK should be?


No more wars because of the EU


- In large part yes.
You might imagine it was all about NATO but NATO is only a military alliance.
Europe has had plenty of them before and they failed, dismally......even with 2 roughly balanced sides 'deterring' each other......and even when WMDs (biological and chemical) existed.

The fact is that the EU has integrated Europe's economies, commercial life and future in such a manner that any attempt at conquest by one of the EU countries could only have a negative effect and value to that country, thereby guaranteeing there will be no more European wars of the nature we once had.

This is something NATO could not and never could do.


I have, i wanted to hear your point of view.


- Fair enough but I suspect you are still getting most of your info from anti-EU sites Wizard.

How many positive things that the EU does can you describe?

I suspect you can't think of many and that is a terrible pity (if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected but so far I'm not hearing much).

We have one of the worlds biggest and most imaginatve commercial/political undertakings going on right on our doorstep and sadly many Britons are being deliberately schooled by the UK media into only being able to think of it in totally negative or utterly selfish terms.

Even those that express less than outright hostility are rarely able to imagine anything beyond the most banal reasons for why the rest of Europe is doing it and why almost every European country not part of it wishes to be.

To me that is just downright weird.

I have no problem with people being 'against' the EU but when they can't think of more than a handfull of credible reasons why other people might be 'for' it I think something is very very wrong somewhere.



 
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