Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

a reply to: haven123

Someone really should put together a nice high quality graphic comparing shanksville to this crash site. This one even spread out over miles and still is obviously plane debris. I guess the argument for shanksville is that it didn't explode in the air it just dove into the ground and burned up??

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: earthling42

Once the planes start falling out of control it might well start get ripped apart into pieces. That seems to agree with a strike at the front, doesn't it.

We are looking at structural failure of the aircraft traveling between 400-500 mph +/-. Airplanes are designed to be structurally sound enough to fly while designed to be as light as possible. As a whole the plane is sound. Compromise parts of the aircraft and you lose that rigidness. Chances are this is not one of those hit by a missile, tail blows off and the plane nose dives.

With a 10 mile debris trail it suggests the plane disintegrated as it came down. Without control, the plane could experience maneuvers its not designed for, like having the plane nose down, exposing the wings to extreme airspeed / stress of forward momentum while in a vertical position, further destabilizing the structural integrity of the plane.

Its one of the reasons you dont go looting a crime scene like this. Debris, bolts, people, etc can all show evidence of extreme stresses on the aircraft.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: haven123

Someone really should put together a nice high quality graphic comparing shanksville to this crash site. This one even spread out over miles and still is obviously plane debris. I guess the argument for shanksville is that it didn't explode in the air it just dove into the ground and burned up??

That's the main difference - yes.

This plane was hit by a missile where as shanksville the aircraft was intact.

Any chance we can keep it on topic though and not drag 9/11 into this... again.

When I looked at all the pictures posted early from this LINK, I found this one to be rather bizarre.

Probably doesnt mean anything, but it has really been nagging at me. Seems so out of place but in place or placed?

a reply to: Xcathdra

That is my take on the event also. That front panel peppered with holes seems important, as someone brought up. A shame the area was so compromised. But that seemed to be purposeful to hinder certain findings.

a reply to: onehuman

It is visible in this picture as well, seems to be from a cardgame, don't know which though.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: Xcathdra

That is make take on the event. That front panel peppered with holes seems important, as someone brought up. A shame the area was so compromised. But that seemed to be purposeful to hinder certain findings.

When you have different types of metals slamming into other parts of metal and then slamming into the ground you will have damage that can seem out of place. Its one of the main reasons crash sites are secured and experts on crashes are brought into investigate it.

What we have now, thanks to the rebels being stupid, is a compromised crime scene where their actions have created a scenario where it will be difficult to determine damage to parts of the aircraft and how the damage occurred.

The pro Russians / Russians accomplished their goal of compromising the scene to the point of getting any details on the crash will be extremely difficult.

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: onehuman

It is visible in this picture as well, seems to be from a cardgame, don't know which though.

Maybe from a version of this game -

A card game

Pass the Bomb

Gibson games - Pass the bomb

Since i saw alot of questions on the weapon system figured id post this its an entire breakdown of the Buk weapon system.
www.ausairpower.net...

a reply to: dragonridr

Probably a waste to be honest. It looks like our Pro Russians have opted to use the thread on Putin to continue their campaign - www.abovetopsecret.com...

without the pesky anti russians from raining on their parade with things like facts.

They are pushing the RT position of an SU-25 shooting down the airline with a missile. Even as people debunked it on that forum, its apparently a US false flag.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I wasn't trying to drag it off topic just making a point in regard to another's post. I will say though.. there is more visible debris in this plane spread out over miles than there was at shanksville where it fell right to the ground.

At 150 pages I don't think I really need to be admonished for making a comment regarding a previous plane crash. Disagree i guess?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: dragonridr

Probably a waste to be honest. It looks like our Pro Russians have opted to use the thread on Putin to continue their campaign - www.abovetopsecret.com...

without the pesky anti russians from raining on their parade with things like facts.

They are pushing the RT position of an SU-25 shooting down the airline with a missile. Even as people debunked it on that forum, its apparently a US false flag.

I think false flags is used as a cop out way to often to prevent having to present facts. It an easy out see you can claim there is no evidence because they planned it that way if there were than they messed up on the false flag operation. As they say how convenient is that right? I really think its actually sad how the Russian media wants to depict some big conspiracy by the US really shows how little they understand about the US government. See especially in the case of Obama hes not the mastermind type hes reactionary and when it comes to Ukraine just wishes it would go away quickly. He knows he needs to talk tough but his main goal is to stay out of it. Weve had prior presidents that would have had troops landing or the very least major arms shipments.

The reason Putin did this was partly he knew the US wouldnt get involved in anything than just a cursory manor with finger pointing and calls for peace. In Russia Ukraine is huge news to the west its just another area where fighting broke out. To the US state department its a conflict which could have ramifications for Europe therefore needs to be solved.But unlike what Russian media has said had nothing to do with its cause in fact the whole thing took them by surprise and they panicked trying to get a hold of the situation once the protests went down. The Obama admin is not great at predicting anything as we can see.

Its a shame Putin is trying to hide a land grab by creating a conflict. I used to really like him always thought him to be straight forward but i see hes also an opportunist. He saw an opportunity to stop EU influence in Ukraine and get some land so he took it just like he did in Georgia.

Things are starting to get interesting.
www.nytimes.com...


The question is who does it belong to?

The Sydney Morning Herald just reported yesterday Malaysian MH4 flew over Syria,the course was supposedly ICAO approved....I am starting to REALLY REALLY worry about this airline.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: onehuman

It is visible in this picture as well, seems to be from a cardgame, don't know which though.

Maybe from a version of this game -

A card game

Pass the Bomb

Gibson games - Pass the bomb

I noticed it was in English. Are most card games sold in Europe in English?

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: Xcathdra

I wasn't trying to drag it off topic just making a point in regard to another's post. I will say though.. there is more visible debris in this plane spread out over miles than there was at shanksville where it fell right to the ground.

At 150 pages I don't think I really need to be admonished for making a comment regarding a previous plane crash. Disagree i guess?

Admonished - nope.

However if you go back and look you will see its been brought up already... again....again......again... Just a reoccurring irritation. No offense towards you, just not wanting to have the same conversation in that area.

In the case of the Malaysian flight it disintegrated from being hit by a missile. In the case of 9/11 the plane nosedived into the ground at a high speed. Falling and a nosedive under power are 2 separate issues with differing impact damage.

As for the debris differences it goes back to being intact in a nosedive under power and a lane being hit by a missile and disintegrating over a 10 mile drop and impact.

originally posted by: thesaneone
Things are starting to get interesting.
www.nytimes.com...


The question is who does it belong to?

Long Haul flights are not always packed full of people due to fuel considerations and cost verse income on the flight itself.

Pretty much every nation on the planet have established, official, commercial air corridors over their territory. For Syria only the Syrian government has aircraft. Aside from Turkey and Syria shooting each others planes down there has been no issues concerning commercial flights.

originally posted by: Daughter2

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: onehuman

It is visible in this picture as well, seems to be from a cardgame, don't know which though.

Maybe from a version of this game -

A card game

Pass the Bomb

Gibson games - Pass the bomb

I noticed it was in English. Are most card games sold in Europe in English?

No clue.. The game I linked to has both English and foriegn language versions of the game.

Has anyone considered the possibility that the people who brought down the plane over Ukraine are the same people who brought down the first Malaysian Airlines plane. We still don't know what happened to the first plane. Shouldn't that mean something? Is it possible that someone who has access to Malaysian Airlines planes or their flight computers has managed to bring these planes down at will? If this is the case, that someone wanted it to look like the rebels shot down this plane. Who benefits from that? At first glance, that would seem to benefit Kiev, since they have started to lose the war in a big way and need a game changer. This would also benefit the US. If the world perceives the rebels of having done this, it increases the probability that weapons or other assistance will be provided to the Kiev government. It also increases the possibility of war between NATO and Russia. So who benefits from this? China does. The first plane originated from China. Many Chinese died. If you exam the behavior of China, you will notice that they never fully support either side, Russia or the US. Trade with the US greatly benefits China, but they align themselves with Russia when it comes to foreign policy. They never seem to fully agree with Russia. How many times have they voted on an issue important to Russia, only to abstain. China cannot defeat the US or Russia militarily without incurring heavy losses. The best way to defeat both is to have them wipe each other out. Also, there is the issue of North Korea. China has convinced the world that North Korea acts on its own because of their seemingly crazy behavior and ostensibly going against the wishes of China. If North Korea nuked US interests or conquered South Korea, would anyone think that China was behind it?

a reply to: Adaluncatif

Since we have no idea what happened to the first plane, and we do know the second was brought down by a missile, how can we link / speculate that the 2 are connected?

Russia and China dont care for each other and never have. The only reason China plays the middle of the road when it comes to certain actions by Russia is because of their own self interest.

Namely Taiwan and other disputed areas in the Pacific that China has claims to. Its difficult for China to support any action against Russia in the realm of say the Crimea issue, when China has the same issues itself. It cant denounce Russia one day and then pull the same maneuver they just denounced Russia for the next day.

China is one of those countries who plays both sides of the fence.