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"The Lost Forbidden Pit of Africa" Monster

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posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 01:37 AM
Looking at the Google maps, the area has what appears to be marsh lands in a river watershed flowing north past Lake Kashiba. At one time the area may have had many marshes right near the lake.

Also, this Lewanki, the late chief of the Barotse, his tribe does live in that area it seems.

posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 07:57 AM
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

thx mate \i will..this is a really cool find

posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 09:01 AM
I have been to the flat plains of Kafue and do not recall such a story or legend at the time.

Lake Otjikoto in northern Namibia, also only a few feet across, was for years the legendary "bottomless" lake with plenty stories I grew up a kid to listen to.

Then in the great novel "The Sunbird" by Wilbur Smith a story is told of an ancient civilization in nothern Botswana that also had a "deep pit/lake".

Both of these locations are in the greater region of the Kafue / Zambezi river systems.

posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 09:16 AM
a reply to: egoli

That's great! Just the type of reply I was hoping for, someone who's been there.

I imagine that just about every sinkhole lake in the country has a curse, or spirit, or monster story associated with it, so determining exactly which one is hard to do. I'll been researching some more and will consider your new information. I'm about to form my conclusions soon.

Thanks again, star of course.

ETA: Pictures of Lake Otjikoto certainly looks like what was described in the original articles. Lake Kashiba is 800 meters or around 1000 yards across, something that wouldn't be confused with 100 feet, unless the there was a typo regarding the number.

However Lake Otjikoto is over 300 ft across and was probably known about by Europeans before 1925. From wikipedia.

The first Europeans to discover the lake were Francis Galton and Carl Johan Andersson, who during their search for Lake Ngami came upon Otjikoto Lake in 1851.

edit on 17-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: Added comment

edit on 17-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: Added another comment after the first

edit on 17-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: typo

posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 09:49 AM
About Mr. Worthington the "Native Commissioner" who reported his hearsay concerning the mystery pit.

I found out that the British post of "Native Commissioner" was for real in the 1920s and one scant reference to a Mr. Worthington.

The following is a report from 1913 from the National Archives in the UK.

Wilson Fox to Birchenough: account of his visit with Jameson; their opinion of various officers and departments, including Survey Department; dangers of Worthington, whose "heart is not white", being left to recommend in regard to native reserves; budgetary prospects.

Here it seems is some concern about how worthy Mr. Worthington was to occupy his post. What I get is that he was basically going native and chasing wild stories while neglecting his duties concerning the reserves and their budgets. The statement that his "heart is not white" indicates he was going rogue somehow and not doing his job.
edit on 17-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: typo

posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 10:38 AM
Some preliminary conclusions about "The Lost Forbidden Pit of Africa".

1) The story has many verifiable elements that indicates the local region in Africa where this "lost" pit once existed. The most likely area being the upper reaches of the Kafue river in Zambia where sinkhole lakes commonly occur.

2) Tribal groups match the area with the accounts and the main source, Mr Worthington, did exist and occupy the government position he was said to have.

3) The legend of a curse or monster in one of the area's large and famous sinkhole lakes called Lake Kashiba gives credence to the story.

4) The original article indicates that there is actually two monsters associated with the Lost Pit, one in the nearby marshes and one in the pit, although the pit contained no monsters when it was first explored by this friend of Mr. Worthington indicating (to me) more of a curse than a monster.

posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 12:59 PM
Cool thread. Discounting native's observations is a hit and miss proposition, but if it keeps up for a few generations, I'd go with unknown... people generally know what they're talking about... especially locals close to the land in the third or fourth worlds.

At this point, though, I'd be more worried about the ghost of the monster...

Or even worse, the curse of the ghost of the monster... heh.

posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 05:50 AM
While not pin pointing the exact location of the lost pit, I believe we're really close with what we've got so far.

A closer look at the individuals, like Worthington and the late tribal chief who had the sighting, or finding the precise location of the tribes during the period of 1920-25, would narrow it down to a smaller hole in the most likely area.

This would take some deep research and a trip to the area in question to produce conclusive results.

So I'll leave it here for a while and hope something new comes up.

Thanks for all the excellent replies.

posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 11:32 AM
a reply to: OrphanApology
this guy looks a bit like a giant hippo but was a vegetarian.

there was a sort of crocodile/dinosaur now extinct that looked a bit like that. will have to research.

edit on 18-7-2014 by works4dhs because: misspelled 'vegetarian'

posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 11:27 PM
An examination of the marsh monster as described in the original articles.

An "animal like a monstrous hippopotamus, but many times larger" that lives in marshes near the Forbidden Pit area.

That "swirled away" in the water, indicating it can swim and submerge.

It can "crawl" across the land and it leaves tracks that resemble "ruts of wagon wheels."

Let's say this marsh monster is 2 X bigger than a hippo. In such a case the description would be a 25 ft long, 10 feet tall amphibious creature that weighs around 6 tons. It can swim, stay submerged and crawls across the land.

If it resembles the hippopotamus, it would have a barrel-shaped torso, with eyes, ears and nose near the top of it's head, a hairless body, stubby legs and a small tail.

Given the description, if I were to guess that this was a recently extinct animal, I guess the Hippopotamus gorgops that lived in Africa until becoming extinct in the Middle Pleistocene, around 780,000 years ago.

From Wikipedia

With a length of 4.3 metres (14 ft) and a shoulder height of 2.1 metres (6.9 ft) and with a weight of 3,900 kilograms (8,600 lb or 4.3 tons) H. gorgops was much larger than its living relative, H. amphibius. Another feature setting it apart from H. amphibius were its eyes. Modern hippos have eyes placed high on the skull, but H. gorgops took things a step further and had what could be described as short eye stalks, making it even easier for the creature to see its surroundings while (almost) fully under water.

Around twice the size of the average hippo and strange enough to not be recognized as a large sized modern hippo by the native chief. They were all over Africa and spreading way into Europe before the ice age stopped them from migrating further north. They supposedly died out a long time ago, but Hippopotamus amphibius survived in Africa to the present day, so why not Hippopotamus gorgops?

posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 11:35 PM
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

That doesn't explain the eating habits though since that one is also a herbivore to my knowledge. Unless that is embellishment on the part of the legend tellers.

Unless it was just maiming/killing in self defense.

It's certainly plausible and it would fit the description.

posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 11:50 PM

originally posted by: OrphanApology
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

That doesn't explain the eating habits though since that one is also a herbivore to my knowledge. Unless that is embellishment on the part of the legend tellers.

Unless it was just maiming/killing in self defense.

It's certainly plausible and it would fit the description.

You need to look at the original articles that the newer article goes by. There is no mention of what the marsh monster ate in those, but there is a lot of misinformation and embellishment in that mysterious universe article I began with.

Here is one source article -

Here is the other one -

edit on 18-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: added links

edit on 18-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: fixed link

posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 12:10 AM
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Thanks for posting links.

You posted so many links and to be quite honest, when using these systems I am not that great yet. I will read through them.

This is very interesting,

Even when I was looking on my own for a possible beast to fit the description I kept coming back to the Hippo, but I haven't heard a lot about the gorgops. It certainly fits the bill. It would be cool if someone discovered it hadn't died before the ice age and still existed.

Edit: I did read those. I don't know where I was getting that the beast ate people. I will need to go back. Definitely from those it would allude to some type of giant hippo or fat reptile.
edit on 19-7-2014 by OrphanApology because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 09:55 AM
a reply to: OrphanApology

With the fact that the marsh monster was described as like a monsterous hippo, then certainly a monsterous sized, supposedly extinct hippo totaly fits the bill.

However, the tracks that it left behind are the only thing left to address and this is what gives me pause. The idea that the tracks resemble the ruts of wagon wheels may fit the giant hippo theory in that hippos use the same trails over again, so individual tracks may get pounded into a pair of ruts (like a two track trail).

Still, a much larger animal, if it was dragging a giant, heavy tail behind it, that could look like a single rut, or even several ruts if it swung it's tail as it walked. So "wheel rut" type tracks could mean a giant croc, relect dinosaur, or a heavy tailed extinct megafauna type animal, or a giant hippo as reported.

Photos of hippo tracks show that the hippo places it's feet rather close together and the tracks are quite visible, nothing like wheel ruts at all, unless it was a well used trail like the picture in the following link.

Croc tracks can also produce ruts as in the following photo link.

Note that the crocodile has a long life span and it never stops growing until it finally dies. Some of the largest crocs ever caught measure over 20 ft and weighed over 3,000 lbs.

A killer crocodile that terrorised and tormented Ugandan villagers has finally been caught - and it's believed to be the biggest crocodile in the world. The crocodile, which weighs a tonne, is believed to have killed and eaten at least four fisherman along the shores of Lake Victoria in Kakira village in the Jinja district of eastern Uganda and maimed several others, reports the Metro.

According to the Metro, the crocodile, believed to be 80 years old, was transferred to the Murchison Falls National Park. The one tonne croc is only 47 kgs less than the former world's heaviest crocodile known as Lolong, reports New Vision. Lolong was a 21ft, one-tonne saltwater crocodile from Philippines. It died on February 10, 2013 at the age of 50.

posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 11:58 PM
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I would use two camera drones over the location.
One to slowly buzz the surface of the water,and one at a higher altitude to watch the action.
See if it bites.

posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 08:16 AM
After a really close look at Google maps and some more consideration of the gathered data thus far, I am ready to make the following conclusions.

The Ila (Ba-Ila) tribe, who were in the most fear of the forbidden pit, inhabited the upper reaches of the Kafue river in Zambia.

The Kafue river actually goes far upstream to the northeast into the Copperbelt Province just west of Luanshya and Ndola.

Lake Kashiba, a giant sinkhole lake with a shadow stealing monster is situated southwest of Ndola town near Luanshya, know for it's numerous sinkhole lakes.

The area is surrounded by swamps and is just northeast of the giant Lukanga Swamp, prime habitat for a cryptid.

I propose that the forbidden pit was some where between Luanshya and Ndola and the large animal reported by tribal "chief Lewanki" (actually Lewanikia chief of the Lozi people, primarily of western Zambia) was sighted in the marshes near Luanshya.,28.5049939,56820m/data=!3m1!1e3

ETA: copy the extra info and add it after the maps/ in the google map address to get the link to work properly.

The monster from the marshes was either an enormous hippopotamus or crocodile.

Note: Frank V. Worthington was Batoka District Commissioner, then from 1904 - 1914 he was Secretary for Native Affairs, not commissioner.

More information may be gleaned from the books of famous explorers of the area like David Livingstone or Portuguese explorers who had been in the area for about 300 years before the British.

edit on 20-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: bad link

edit on 20-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: added comment

edit on 20-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: typo

posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 08:24 AM

originally posted by: stormcell
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Here's a possible explanation. The largest crocodile found in Lake Kariba

It would certainly explain the danger of letting your shadow fall onto the water. This critter could probably feel the vibrations of footsteps and the change in light.

Holy Moly

That Is an awesome Croc!

I'm for a rare occasion speechless, just have to say something because "Holy Moly" isn't a post...


posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 11:20 AM
I really zoomed in this time and found a very likely spot that matches the description perfectly, just a few miles southwest of Ndola. Here is a screen shot of the area on Google maps.

Notice the swamplands surrounding those large lakes and the small sinkhole lake (about 100ft across) just east of the swamp lakes.

The flood plain and valleys of a tributary river that begins up in Ndola and travels southwest, has a number of swamps and sinkhole lakes. Any one of the smaller sunken lakes could be the forbidden pit.

posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 09:11 PM
Alright, no one is refuting that last one, so I consider this one nailed!

That swamp is surrounded by higher, much dryer, farm land and "barrens". There is a two-track road leading to the southern edge of that small lake and a small elevation with a road coming up from the south. Obivously that whole area is swampland surrounding the larger lakes and around the western edge of this smaller sunken lake with a visible edge, possibly the forty foot cliffs described in the first two articles.

Yeah, nailed it in my opinion, please prove me wrong. Thanks ATS.

posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 01:55 PM
I guess I just couldn't let this one go, could I?

But I dug a little deeper and have found the native legends and quotes from the original source reports pin-pointing the exact location of the forbidden pit.

From a website - "The River Snake of the Copperbelt and Shaba Pedicle"

for William Kennelly, a British South Africa Company Collector, encountered notions of a similar creature in May 1900 when he visited Lake Chilengwa, a . . . "sunken lake" eight miles east of Chiwala's village (modern Ndola). The Africans accompanying him were said to have "a superstitious horror of the place, and did all they could to dissuade Mr. Kennelly from going down to the water," some 30 yards below its rim, "assuring him that there was a large snake there" (Chesnaye 1901:48).

Chilengwa, chiLamba for "a thing created (by God)," is said to be linked by an underground passage to Lake Kashiba, some 80 miles to the southwest (Doke 1975:124-25).

Nsanguni, on the other hand, was the name given to the fabulous Luanshya River snake which was held responsible for the floodings and deaths during the early development work at Roan Antelope Mine (Doke 1927:324; Spearpoint 1937:3-8).

The Luanshya Snake finally left the mine in 1928 . . . Just where it went it not clear, though Lake Kashiba is frequently mentioned. Readers may recall that a subterranean channel supposedly links Lakes Kashiba and Chilengwa, and that Kennelly was warned of the Chilengwa snake in 1900 (Chesnaye 1901:48). A similar "snake monster" is said to dwell in Chilengwa's neighboring lake, Lake Ishiku, which is also said to have an underground link to Lake Chilengwa (Dobney 1964:25-26).

And finally, there is Dobney's more ominous but better informed account of Kashiba's "Ichitapa monster": It is said that if a man stands on the rocks by the lakes' edge with his shadow falling on the water, the Ichitapa will swim up and swallow the shadow. The man will either become paralyzed or will fall into the lake and drown. If one's shadow is eaten then death is inevitable, say the local tribesmen (Dobney 1964:25).

Smith and Dale (1920,ii:129) call a similar Tonga being Maloa, and liken it to the Lozi's Lengolengole, which King Lewanika once saw as a hippo-sized creature with a the tail of an iguana. Brelsford (1936:60) . . . But his account of this and other large, horned creatures like the chipekwe, or "water rhino" clearly betrays an older tradition of European speculation which long populated the remoter parts of Northern Rhodesia with relic dinosaurs (Lechter 1911:159-62; Stephenson 1937:210-12; Doke 1931:352; Smith & Dale 1920,ii:129).

ETA: Link to the article.

So there you have it, the forbidden pit is Lake Chilengwa, "sunken lake" eight miles east of Chiwala's village (modern Ndola) and Chilengwa's neighboring lake, Lake Ishiku, which said to have an underground link to Lake Chilengwa, both of which are supposedly linked to Lake Kashiba, some 80 miles to the southwest.

Google map "lake Ishiku, Zambia" and just a couple of miles straight east is what I believe to be Lake Chilengwa, the forbidden pit.

The pit monster is a fabulous mythical giant snake creature called the Ichitapa that will swim up and swallow a person's shadow. The man will either become paralyzed or will fall into the lake and drown.

King Lewanika sighted a hippo-sized creature with a the tail of an iguana, a different description than the one from the mysterious universe article and probably not a reliable story to begin with.

edit on 22-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: added link

edit on 22-7-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: added Google map directions

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