It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia writes off 90% of Cuba's debt ahead of Putin's 'big tour' to L. America

page: 2
11
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 06:01 PM
link   
Instead of writing off the Cuban debt, Russia should have bought out some bankrupt and inefficiently run industries or companies and turned these around.

Russia could have also bought off large swaths of lands for agriculture production of any kind, given Russian warm weather is barely 4-5 months.

While Cuba may have suffered alot because of political reasons, but why did Russia write off $4-5 Billion of Libyan and Algerian debt...........EACH !!!!...................makes no sense. These are both oil rich, small population countries.

Instead of writing off debts, Russia should start to own industries and lands in these countries. Atleast that would be some cash inflow for the government in a different form.

$32B would have helped Russia match atleast European NATO in terms of 4.5 Generation fighter planes plus still left $10-12B for other purposes.




posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 06:10 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin

Two points:

a) Commie Castro is already out of the picture for more than few years. So do not wait for him before opening up economy in controlled fashion.

b) Other than free healthcare for all and some temporary safety net like welfare for totally destitute etc., any economy throwing more social discounts is headed for inefficiencies down the road. Scandinavian countries are a good example of how too much social benefits hurt the economies of even resource rich nations.



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 06:27 PM
link   
a reply to: victor7

Loooool

Were you get that BS about scandinavian countrys?

Norway and sweden are running managble debt and have steady economy growth lol


There economys make the USA $17 trillion debt and quantative easing bubble economy look like a joke!



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 06:53 PM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok

Norway debt
Sweden Debt

edit on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:55:59 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 06:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: crazyewok

www.nationaldebtclocks.org...
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...


Yeah norway is less than 23%

Thats pretty good.

Even swedens 40% is pretty ok compared to most!

Bad is the USA 102% debt to GDP!

I never said they have NO debt I said they have MANAGBLE debt.


Not all debts bad, it all depends if you have the means to pay it back,
edit on 12-7-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 07:01 PM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok
I disagree, all debts are bad. Trust me, even a manageable debt now, can put you out of business so fast your head will spin. Not to smash them at all, maybe they will be lucky and no bad will come of it. I have paid more than 3/4 of a house off and had it forclosed on though, so I don't trust any of the lenders out there. And those debts are not something to brush off, that is a lot of money.

edit on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 19:02:16 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 07:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: crazyewok
I disagree, all debts are bad. Trust me, even a manageable debt now, can put you out of business so fast your head will spin. Not to smash them at all, maybe they will be lucky and no bad will come of it. I have paid more than 3/4 of a house off and had it forclosed on though, so I don't trust any of the lenders out there.


Well like or not all countrys borrow.

Scandinavian countrys seem to borrow less and in more managble sums than most usa and my own UK included.

Id look at our own countrys first before we dare point fingers at norway or sweden!



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 07:10 PM
link   
a reply to: crazyewok
I hear ya, but that is morally flawed though, I think. Don't get me wrong, I am sick and tired of both of my countries doing wrong, canada and the us. When any country says yeah, we do wrong, but do less wrong than that country, I tend to close my ears. Wrong is wrong period, and claiming you are less wrong than another country because you do wrong a percentage less is BS. "Country A is wronger than us, because they killed 2 million innocents, and we only killed one million innocents!" is flawed logic IMO.



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 07:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: links234
a reply to: neo96

Oh God...I just gave you a star for that post. I feel dirty.


a reply to: kwakakev

Because most of the Cuban population in Florida are anti-Castro. So they prefer the blockade to remain to hurt the Cuban government.


Exactly. These are the people who escaped Cuba over the last 50 years and have seen loved ones killed etc. They still see the Cuban goverment as the ones responsible and are hard core pro blockade. Even though pretty much nobody esle is. Everytime either party starts feeling out the idea the Cuban community makes sure they know they swing the vote for the other guy. Florida being a swing state with a huge population is vital to winning any election. The state of Florica itself is chomping that the bit to end the embargo and surge trade/invesment into Cuba. The only way that will happen is if when Castro dies the exiles soften on the idea or as Florida becomes more and more of a blue state the grip the Cuban voting bloc has will become less important. Either way it is just a matter of time before Cuba becomes vacation paradise for American's to spend lots of money in.


I will say that's a pretty good angle that I've never considered before. I guess it is another important example of how Cuba affects American politics.

One thing that the Cuban delegates that I've met had to talk about was Guantanamo Bay. They seem to not be too keen to forced the Americans out of there, because it would further strain relations. They have said that the American forces are hostile to local Cubans there and still act aggressive towards Cuban fishermen, sometimes shooting at their boats while in Cuban waters. The Cubans take pride in never cashing the annual cheques provided by the American government to rent the territory, as per the formal agreement.

Sometimes I wonder if keeping Gitmo open is a deepstate policy to keep The foothold for American forces in Cuba to pressure the Cuban government.
edit on 12-7-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 07:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: Vovin
For Cuba, creating a huge workforce of doctors is a major policy initiative that they take great pride in.
If I recall, medicine and biotech has now become their most valuable export. Personally...I'm a fan of the tourism!!



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 07:18 PM
link   
a reply to: victor7



Instead of writing off the Cuban debt, Russia should have bought out some bankrupt and inefficiently run industries or companies and turned these around.


While I am not sure, I would not be surprised to find that these debts have been paid off with Russia's pile of US notes.
edit on 12-7-2014 by kwakakev because: spelling



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 07:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Vovin

Two points:

a) Commie Castro is already out of the picture for more than few years. So do not wait for him before opening up economy in controlled fashion.

b) Other than free healthcare for all and some temporary safety net like welfare for totally destitute etc., any economy throwing more social discounts is headed for inefficiencies down the road. Scandinavian countries are a good example of how too much social benefits hurt the economies of even resource rich nations.


They are not "temporary" social nets. They are rights, referred to as "pillars" in the Cuban constitution, that are ensured for all citizens. These pillars provided income and daily food rations to all citizens during the "special period" in the 90s when the USSR was no longer around to trade with, when the USA refused to lift the blockade hoping that the starving Cuban population would depose of their government. Instead, the government took care of its people and the people developed technological innovations to survive. For instance, without chemicals from the USSR, Cuba developed natural pesticides that work much better than Monsanto would ever develop. They also created common gardens everywhere in urban districts and relearned how to use animals to plow crops instead of machinery.

And just for the record, the Cubans do have a democratic system. Instead of elections where people vote for parties, there are referendums on policy implementation, and the big one is the regular election on whether people still want to follow the constitution or not.
edit on 12-7-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 07:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: Vovin
For Cuba, creating a huge workforce of doctors is a major policy initiative that they take great pride in.
If I recall, medicine and biotech has now become their most valuable export. Personally...I'm a fan of the tourism!!


The Cuban delegation said that by far, most tourists to Cuba are Canadian. Cuba likes Canada and is always trying to create better ties.

Long story short, we brought the Cuban ambassador to my university for a conference, only to find out that the president of the university already found and negotiated business with the ambassador before we even saw the guy (the president had nothing to do with the conference). My university is all about attracting foreign students (because they pay far more in tuition), so I assumed it was about that.

I've also had Aleida Guevara (Che Guevara's daughter) hold a conference here regarding the merits of the revolution. It was quite interesting.



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 08:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin

Quit glorifying communism and its types...............for the sake of basic Human dignity.

Cuban government was foolish to not adopt even tiny market reforms in 1990s when Soviet help stopped.

Tiny but controlled steps (like China) would have given decent results by now.

Who is Cuban government trying to impress that it stood upto the US and still survived?



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 09:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Vovin

Quit glorifying communism and its types...............for the sake of basic Human dignity.
They offered up aid post Katrina, but were turned down. Who was the crazy ideologue there?



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 09:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: crazyewok
I disagree, all debts are bad. Trust me, even a manageable debt now, can put you out of business so fast your head will spin.


Then that is not mangeable debt, by definition.

A good use of debt financing is very long term infrastructure - dams, roads, power stations - these will be producing or being useful for decades, so it makes sense to finance them over their productive life, rather than just load up today's economy with paying by "cash".

"All debt bad" is simplistic thinking that would keep the country in the coal age.



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 11:14 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin

Could it be possible that a black market has been established due to blockade? This could help account for some of the resistance to changes in policy, will upset the current economic flows.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 12:37 AM
link   
So Fidel is the son of Jesus and America is the only cause of Cuba's misery.

Cuentame una de vaqueros.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 05:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Vovin

Quit glorifying communism and its types...............for the sake of basic Human dignity.

Cuban government was foolish to not adopt even tiny market reforms in 1990s when Soviet help stopped.

Tiny but controlled steps (like China) would have given decent results by now.

Who is Cuban government trying to impress that it stood upto the US and still survived?


Cuba is only as communist as it is as a means to survive the situation that it was put through. If the Americans weren't obsessed with believing that Cuba was part of the Communist threat, then Cuba would be free to pursue other options. By saying "who were they trying to impress, they should have reformed their market", you are pretty much saying that the American global empire strategy of surrounding, blockading and starving non-aligned countries to induce pro-American regime change is an acceptable process. How is that agreeable? What the Cubans did was popular choice, supported by public referendums. It's not like Castro held the country hostage.

Truth is I could sit here and write forever about communism in practice, but it's really a waste of my time.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 09:01 AM
link   

originally posted by: metodex
So Fidel is the son of Jesus and America is the only cause of Cuba's misery.

Cuentame una de vaqueros.

I think you are arguing with yourself, here. Good luck with that.



new topics

top topics



 
11
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join