Immigration at a NET LOSS, why all the fuss?

a reply to: tothetenthpower

The US used to the the "Land Of Opportunity"

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free;
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless,
Tempest-tossed to me
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

The Statue Of Liberty Song

Our whole country came into being by people from all over the world. Many think that they can come here and do something for themselves or their families.

Over the decades the chance and ability to do that, legally, has become harder and harder from what I know, hence just coming across the border to do so.

I still think people should come here if they want to live here and become an American. My first wife's family came through Ellis Island 3 generations ago.

I think the problem is that over time, us Americans, that think we are all free, are really under a illusion of being really free.

Oh sure, there are many things I can do, places I can go, and things that I can own that I would not be able to do if I was in another country.

But the said fact is, ever since the beginning of the 20th century, we've become numbers. Statistics. A source of income for the federal government. And that means controlling us. Keeping tabs on us........

And you can't do that with so many people just coming across the border.

I think we should stream line the ability for those that want to move here, and I think we should also review how to nationalize someone. There are many things that we require of a person who wants to nationalize to know that most natural citizens of the US do not even know!

But again, this is just how I feel and is just my opinion on it. Take it (anyone in this thread) with a grain of salt.

I'm fixing to leave to go camping for 3 days and nights with my cub scouts. Need a break from ATS me thinks.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Well hell.

They turned away people back then too.

Might want to take a look at immigration LAW of this US.

Particularly:

en.wikipedia.org...

Page Act of 1875

Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882

Immigrant Act of 1891

Emergency Quota Act of 1921

Immigration Act of 1924

a reply to: neo96

Yes I know. I home school my son, and last year, his 5th grade, we covered American history starting just after the civil war.

There may be times where closing our borders is the correct thing to do: during a time of war, because of a global pandemic, or things like that.

But the fact remains that part of what made America so great in the past was because it was the place you could go to be free and pursue your dreams. It wasn't just being oppressed that led people from all around the world here. Many left their homes to come here because here is were possibilites lay to create a new life.

Farming.
Industry.
Prospecting.

If you've never done it, take a few minutes to research and find some very old periodicals that were written about America during the early 1800's and on for several decades. People gushed and gushed about how beautiful it was, how around every corner there was some way to get rich and provide for your family.

They made America sound like the promised land.

And for many back then it was. All the way up to the first few decades of the 20th century.

Things are a lot different now. But still......

Here where I live in SC, there has grown a very large hispanic community over the past 15 years or so. Many of them here are doing landscaping work, tree removal and construction.

It's not booming, and many charge a lot less then you'd think.....but they do darn good work, and full fill their deal with you.

I always here how "they" are "taking away jobs". Most of the time the jobs were always there. Just no one either wanted to work that hard, or wanted to work that hard for such low paid. Specially degreed people. Who could blame them?

But see, that's because many of us here are used to a certain life style, and do not go without too often. Even those who are so poor receive some sort of help from the government.

Many of these people who have come here, and accepted these lower paying, but hard labor jobs, are doing just quite well for themselves.

That's because were they came from, you'd be lucky to get at least one meal a day.

There's this one 20 acre plot of land. Over the last 8 years a group of them bought it, cleared it, and have mobile homes on it. They've made the place look quite beautiful.

During the last ice storm that ripped through here this past winter, the main highway going by them had a lot of trees and debris blocking the road. A lot of my neighbors were griping and griping about how long it was taking the county to get out and clear the road.

Those people went out and were clearing the roads themselves.

I don't know what the answer is to our borders, illegals or people that simply want to move here the legal way. I really don't. I know that fighting among ourselves is pointless. I know I don't want criminals coming in here and continuing to break the law here too.

But I do know that what made us great before was all those immigrants that came to this country. They helped us build it. From the farms lands in the midwest, to the rail roads crisscrossing our country, to the steel mills and coal mines. There's a reason why America was called the Great Melting Pot.

I don't think we should only let people that have money in. I don't think we should only let people that can show skill sets or a degree in. I don't think we should let people in who expect a "free ride" in either (entitlements).

What I do think is we should let people who want to work hard, pursue opportunities and who really want to be an American in.

How can I find fault with them, when this is what my family did over 300 years ago? Who am I to tell them "No."?

Again: I don't have the answer. I'm an engineer, not a politician (all though I think that maybe a big part of the problem).

But I can tell you that's how I feel. If we want America to be great again, we need to get back to what made it great before, and that was not bombing the crap at of other people. Help yes.....when ASKED. But what made us really great:

The country that people could immigrate to, because it really was the "land of milk and honey" back then.

Again....just my opinion.

a reply to: neo96

You are aware most of those laws are quite unjustifiable in retrospect don't you? There was plenty of jobs at the time of those things getting passed, and it was simply hypocracy to "pull the ladder up behind ourselves"

a reply to: eriktheawful

But see, that's because many of us here are used to a certain life style, and do not go without too often. Even those who are so poor receive some sort of help from the government.

What kind of help are the homeless and hungry people getting from the government? We have people living in tents, living on the streets, homeless shelters are filled to capacity and some have to be turned away. Food pantries/kitchens are in constant need of donations and the numbers of our poor are rising. We have elderly who have to decide between life saving meds or food.

I always here how "they" are "taking away jobs".

You always hear it because it is true. I have seen with my own eyes capable, qualified citizens turned away while an illegal was hired instead because they would work for sub standard wages. I have seen citizens lose job opportunities in some areas because they did not speak Spanish and the job had nothing to do with international businesses or being a translator. Are citizens supposed to work for less than minimum wage and feed their families?

What I do think is we should let people who want to work hard, pursue opportunities and who really want to be an American in.

I can't tell you how many illegals I have worked with over the years who had no desire whatsoever to be an American. They saved money from here and would eventually move back to their own Country well off because our money was worth so much more there. They come right out and tell you this.

Citizens work hard too and deserve a job before an illegal foreigner. We have millions of unemployed citizens, hungry and homeless. We have no business taking care of foreigners first when we can't even care for our own.

a reply to: Night Star

And I agree with you:

We have no business taking care of foreign people. Nor people that just want to come here, make money and then leave.

Which is why I qualified my statement:

What I do think is we should let people who want to work hard, pursue opportunities and who really want to be an American in.

I also do not thin the federal government should be in the business of taking care people at all. I firmly believe in personal responsibility.

You pointed out many things that are wrong with our country in the first place, and asked a very good question:

Are citizens supposed to work for less than minimum wage and feed their families?

I live in a shack in the woods. Well, actually it's a old 3 bedroom double wide mobile home that was built back in 1986, on a 10 acre plot in the woods that belongs to my family. Was falling apart when I got the home, and I had to spend a lot of time fixing it up.
We grow a lot of food in our garden, can said food for the winter. I have chickens that give me quite a bit of eggs. There are 4 of us here living on a single Walmart paycheck. I've not been able to find work in years. But we make do, no one goes hungry (heck, I give eggs away to friends and family). We do without a lot, we don't get to go see that new movie that just came out but wait until I can rent the DVD. We don't go on vacations, except for camping trips which are a LOT cheaper to do. We very rarely eat out.

And while we're are what is classified as "Working Poor", we realize that we are much luckier that people who live in cities, and that the things we do here to help ourselves is not always something people in those cities can do.

You've hit the nail on the head: People do not want immigrants to move here because they can't get jobs themselves or see that immigrants are receiving things that they as citizens are not.

So the answer is to close our borders? That will fix things? That will make it to where everyone now has a job? That will lower food prices? That will lower the price of meds and medical care?

Stop and think about that for a moment.

We don't have jobs because they keep sending the jobs overseas. We pay a lot for food because they keep raising the prices on them each time the cost of fuel goes up......and then when the fuel drops back down, the price of the food stays. Haven't you noticed that?
We pay a lot for our medicines and medical care. Why? Why are those things so expensive? Are they so expensive because we have people coming into this country?

Or are they so expensive because the people that provide those things are out to make a lot of money?

I believe in a free market. But at the same time if you keep sending the jobs out of the country, then the people that are here are not going to have money for that free market.

We need to bring our jobs back here. I love low prices at Wally World. I don't love the fact that they are low because all the junk was made in China.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Wiki as the source for this???

Come on.


Immigration never has been the issue.


People breaking the laws to come here is the issue, hence the term "illegal".

Instead of illegal, how about just "criminal"?