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Immigration at a NET LOSS, why all the fuss?

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posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Good Lord Neo, why do I bother sometimes.

You failure to provide data that disputes my own, is NOT some kind of magical wand that proves you are right.

Absence of information, is not fact.

Let me give you other sources.

Net Immigration falls to 0%




About this Report

This report analyzes the magnitude and trend of migration flows between Mexico and the United States; the experiences and intentions of Mexican immigrants repatriated by U.S. immigration authorities; U.S. immigration enforcement patterns; conditions in Mexico and the U.S. that could affect immigration; and characteristics of Mexican-born immigrants in the U.S.

The report draws on numerous data sources from both Mexico and the U.S. The principal Mexican data sources are the Mexican decennial censuses (Censos de Población y Vivienda) of 1990, 2000 and 2010; the Mexican Population Count (II Conteo de Población y Vivienda) of 2005; the Survey of Migration in the Northern Border of Mexico (la Encuesta sobre Migracíon en la Frontera Norte de México or EMIF-Norte); the Survey of Demographic Dynamics of 2006 and 2009 (Encuesta Nacional de Dinámica Demográfica or ENADID); and the Survey of Occupation and Employment for 2005-2011 (Encuesta Nacional de Ocupación y Empleo or ENOE). The principal U.S. data sources are the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey (CPS) monthly data for 1994 to 2012; the CPS Annual Social and Economic Supplement conducted in March for 1994 to 2011; the American Community Survey (ACS) for 2005-2010; U.S. Censuses from 1850 to 2000; U.S. Border Patrol data on apprehensions at the U.S.-Mexico border; and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Office of Immigration Statistics on legal admissions to the U.S. and aliens removed or returned. The report also uses data from the World Bank and the United Nations Population Division.

This report was written by Senior Demographer Jeffrey Passel, Senior Writer D’Vera Cohn and Research Associate Ana Gonzalez-Barrera. Paul Taylor provided editorial guidance in the drafting of this report. Rakesh Kochhar and Mark Hugo Lopez provided comments on earlier drafts of the report. Seth Motel and Gabriel Velasco provided research assistance. Gabriel Velasco and Eileen Patten number-checked the report. Marcia Kramer copy edited the report text and Appendix A. Molly Rohal copy edited the report’s methodology appendix.


Immigration from Mexico to US Declining


The rate of Mexican immigration to the US has stalled or maybe even gone into reverse, an analysis shows, ending a four-decade-long trend.


Immigration Down.

How many more would you like me to post?

~Tenth
edit on 7/8/2014 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

What facts ?

All i have seen is 'guesstimates'.



Pew estimates that net migration -- newly arrived immigrants minus those leaving (forced or voluntarily) -- has come to a standstill, which it attributes to the weakened U.S. job and construction markets, border enforcement, an increase in deportations, and increased dangers associated with crossing the borde


www.cnn.com...

Estimates ARE NOT facts.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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They're losing on the same-sex marriage front, so they needed to dust this off and pull it out again as a faux social issue that isn't an issue at all (as most of them aren't) because they think will get them some votes. If it wasn't so sad and damaging, it would almost be funny.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:31 PM
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a reply to: neo96

That's ridiculous. When we're dealing with complex systems, facts are always estimates.

Are you attempting to shape this "estimate" into an untruth?

If so, then the people who get cancer every year in this country, an estimate, is untrue.

Pretty much every statistic out there is untrue, as it's always an estimate.

We do the best with the data available, and when that data doesn't have an easy numerical value to be had with confidence, we estimate within a margin of error, and level of confidence ascertained.

That doesn't make it untrue, and it still makes it a fact.
edit on 8-7-2014 by pl3bscheese because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Yes, because taking data and extrapolating from it, is stupid.

Much better than sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling " NEENER NEENER NEENER"

And not ALL those sources were guesstimates. Please read before allowing your ideology to overcome your common sense.

~Tenth
edit on 7/8/2014 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

Hey unless they are down on the southern border for 1000s of miles. At each and every spot on it.

And counting everyone who comes across it.

They have no clue.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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Do we have illegal aliens entering the US?

Do we have laws that punish those that enter the US illegally?

If we do have illegal aliens entering, and we do have laws that punish, then why aren't those laws being followed?


I mean, play with numbers all you want, people.

Forest/trees much?



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:10 PM
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We are either a sovereign nation with laws concerning how and when you get to move into our nation or we are not. You cannot have open borders and remain a sovereign nation of laws.

We are not following our laws in allowing this sudden influx of people who do not respect our laws enough to follow the ones that exist and govern how you apply to move here.

Now, I don't care who you are or where you came from, but I do very care that you respect my nation enough to follow its laws, and if you broke them in coming here, then I can't trust you to do that.

So that's what all "the fuss" as you put it is about.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Doesn't that mean by definition, that neither do you or the people who claim there are problems at the border? If nobody has appropriate stats, then why the fuss?

Who is creating all of these issues? Seems like political football on both sides of aisle.

~tenth



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower




Who is creating all of these issues?


The same people who passed this trash.

The Seven Amnesties Passed by Congress

Funny thing there is. The same people who wrote, and passed that trash.

Are still on capitol shill screaming 'we must do something'.

For the 8th time.

Immigration is a political wedge issue anyways.

Like all political issues.

To divide and conquer.

The reality is if they EVER fixed anything there is no need for those clowns on capitol hill.

That is why NOTHING ever gets fixed.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

There's a fuss because these people are being bused around (or flown) from places like Texas to other states to be dropped off, all because the retention centers are bursting at the seems.

We have "camps" right now full of children that have come across our borders. Most of whom are not Mexican, but are instead from countries south of Mexico.

I noticed that all the articles you have posted are based on numbers about Mexicans. Not illegals as a whole.

Can you show us a reduction or exodus of illegals as a whole and not just from one single country, Mexico?



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

Exactly, everyone from anywhere in the world who wants to come here illegally uses Mexico, and there are illegals from all over the world, not just Mexicans which is a favorite strawman. I take that back ... I think China smuggles people in through the West Coast ports, too, but by far, the Southern border is the biggest problem. I've heard of entire families of Eastern European illegals turning up who have come over the southern border.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




Exactly, everyone from anywhere in the world who wants to come here illegally uses Mexico


Yep.

Even terrorists.

www.nationalreview.com...

azcapitoltimes.com...

cnsnews.com...

Some people are playing a dangerous game.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

As I understand it, illegal immigration from countries that are not Mexico, or considered "South American" are not in numbers great enough to warrant creating a fuss about.

Now mind you, that's just something I understand, from lack of being told otherwise. So don't be surprised if I change my mind if you provide some stats.

~Tenth



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: eriktheawful

Exactly, everyone from anywhere in the world who wants to come here illegally uses Mexico, and there are illegals from all over the world, not just Mexicans which is a favorite strawman. I take that back ... I think China smuggles people in through the West Coast ports, too, but by far, the Southern border is the biggest problem. I've heard of entire families of Eastern European illegals turning up who have come over the southern border.



That's why I asked if the numbers are suppose to represent ALL illegals.

What I'm reading in the OP's article and other's posted later, they seem to be talking about Mexican Nationals only.

Mexicans are not the only people using the southern border. You also have all the countries from Central American, and of course nationals from other countries besides Mexico.

The title of the thread says: "Immigration at a NET LOSS, why all the fuss".......but then the information is about Mexicans only that I can see.

Did I miss something? Or are your numbers also for illegals from other countries too?



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: eriktheawful

As I understand it, illegal immigration from countries that are not Mexico, or considered "South American" are not in numbers great enough to warrant creating a fuss about.

Now mind you, that's just something I understand, from lack of being told otherwise. So don't be surprised if I change my mind if you provide some stats.

~Tenth


Tell that to all those non-Mexican children who are currently overloading the immigration system in the Southern states right now ...



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

DHS Stats 2012.

Page 3 under Estimates by Region & country of birth estimates:

78% of all Illegals in the US were from North & Central America, including the Carribean.

Next up were Asia & South America.

~Tenth
edit on 7/8/2014 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: eriktheawful

As I understand it, illegal immigration from countries that are not Mexico, or considered "South American" are not in numbers great enough to warrant creating a fuss about.

Now mind you, that's just something I understand, from lack of being told otherwise. So don't be surprised if I change my mind if you provide some stats.

~Tenth


Wellllllll.......that would be just an opinion.

A single person crossing our borders into our country illegally is........still breaking our laws.

There is a problem with all these people being put on buses and dropped off into other cities in other states, and a very large amount of children that have been sent here.

To me it is a fuss: people are illegally entering our country. Doesn't mater if it's 1 or 11 million. The law is still being broken, and something does need to be done about it, especially since at the moment our border patrol is being overwhelmed.

But that's just my opinion. I believe anyone in the world should be allowed to come here and live if they want to (all though with all the HATE I see here on ATS for the US, I really do not understand why anyone would want to).

However, I think they should do so LEGALLY, as it certainly is not fair to those who are trying to do so legally.

But again....just my humble opinion on it.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: eriktheawful

DHS Stats 2012.

Page 3 under Estimates by Region & country of birth estimates:

78% of all Illegals in the US were from North & Central America, including the Carribean.

Next up were Asia & South America.

~Tenth


Right. 2 years ago.

How about right now?

Right now is where we have the news about retention centers bursting at the seems, not 2012.

I hate seeing all those kids sitting there wondering what is going to happen to them, or more importantly:

all those kids that didn't make it. Even Obama stated that: Don't send your children, they may not make it.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: eriktheawful

Oh it's not like I'm supporting illegals or anything. I just think that the problem is more about how we manage them, then them getting in if you know what I mean.

I don't know how hard the process of legal immigration is the US, but if it's anything like Canada, unless you have some skill that we want, like a degree for example, you are going to be told you're either too poor, too uneducated etc to live here.

I can see the reasoning behind that sure, we have all kinds of programs that illegals take advantage of and it's not like Canadian hospitals are gonna let people die in droves because of lack of insurance or anything.

Our immigration problems are mostly Asians arriving in Vancouver illegally, or US citizens coming to live here on work visas and then don't leave when they expire.

So I get it. I just think that the focus of the argument is a bit off the mark ya know?

~Tenth



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