Neandertal trait in early human skull suggests that modern humans...

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: hydeman11
I think its biggest significance will probably be that it throws into question the identification of other early skull fragments as either early H. sapiens or Neanderthal based on ear canal shapes. Potential for vast controversy there, perhaps, though all rather dry and academic really.

I wouldn't call it vast controversy. And looking more carefully at the article the bones are from "archaic humans" not "homo sapiens". Archaic humans are different from homo sapiens in a number of anatomical ways. This would just add another.

But, again, I think the findings are probably wrong. Either the apparent forms aren't really there. Or the bones turn out to be neanderthal rather than archaic human.

The biggest question is - how Neanderthals or modern human, species that actually learn craftsmanship, to build weapons. Do we see any animals today making spears and throwing them to hunt, even chimps? That is because human has been greatly modified and has at least half of its origin coming from advanced species, ET or whatever... NO PURE ANIMAL will evolve into making spears and then developing its brain for agriculture, hunting to form the ancient civilizations? Something is really alarming hear when you hear 'Oh they just evolved, adapted and learned all these things' and no other animal ever did, animals only evolved their bodies to fit the environment - water, ground, but not they brains! Darn we lucky bastards, brain evolvers!

a reply to: LightYearsAhead

Then by your logic Chimps and bonobos who use tools and weapons are not pure animals. The notion is ludicrous.

Double post

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: knoledgeispower

Knowledge is useless without truth.

You can have faith in science.
Faith in religion.
Faith in a flying spaghetti monster.

Truth is subjective, but it uses science to bolster its standings.

So....you disprove of this study or it's findings??

a reply to: Astyanax

I'll take the random forum posters ANY day over known fraudsters such as Professor Reiner Protsch...

Those who actually believe the most monumental hoax in history used by the ruling class to manipulate the masses AFTER it has already been exposed countless times (the mainstream apparatus) truly deserve the Charlie Brown award for gullibility...

You ARE right about one thing though:

Astyanax - Mind Firmly Closed

Who's the more foolish; the fool or the fool who follows him? ~ Obi-Wan

a reply to: knoledgeispower

SnF nice find knoledgeispower. This may come off odd but I think there are things in the genes to allow perseverance past issues the species may face which encourage the species makes it.
Ex: trapped in a cave complex due to outside activites forcing some within them may cause a genetic upgrade in the next generations
Forced to live in space and something within the genetics activates to allow for long term space travel
species degraded attacked experiences ELE event and something in the genetics activates insuring the strongest genes are birthed that can assist in repopulating the species...

If this assumption is correct, then there has to be something intelligent interacting enough to see the potential surroundings and or habitats the species may encounter and preplanned within the genetics how to overcome.

originally posted by: LightYearsAhead
The biggest question is - how Neanderthals or modern human, species that actually learn craftsmanship, to build weapons. Do we see any animals today making spears and throwing them to hunt, even chimps? That is because human has been greatly modified and has at least half of its origin coming from advanced species, ET or whatever... NO PURE ANIMAL will evolve into making spears and then developing its brain for agriculture, hunting to form the ancient civilizations? Something is really alarming hear when you hear 'Oh they just evolved, adapted and learned all these things' and no other animal ever did, animals only evolved their bodies to fit the environment - water, ground, but not they brains! Darn we lucky bastards, brain evolvers!

There have been tool making hominids on planet earth for about 2.4 million years. And for almost all of that time there have been more than one species of tool making hominids. The most successful of these hominids was homo erectus. His species lived on earth for about 1.7 million years. Much longer than our paltry 200 thousand years.

However, humans are superior apex predators. Other hominid species didn't last long when we entered their environments. So for the last 30 thousand years or so, it's just been us.

The only hominids left on planet earth.

a reply to: Murgatroid

I'll take the random forum posters ANY day over known fraudsters such as Professor Reiner Protsch.

Nobody is asking you to choose between them.

Remind me again: what was the profession of the people who spotted Protsch's frauds, and exposed the man?

"Anthropology is going to have to completely revise its picture of modern man between 40,000 and 10,000 years ago," said Thomas Terberger, the archaeologist who discovered the hoax. Source

Fraud and fantasy are not the only available choices.

Who's the more foolish; the fool or the fool who follows him? ~ Obi-Wan

Not bad. Obi-Wan is at least as authoritative a source as the ones you quoted in your earlier post.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Hello,

I concede that the experts think of the universe as closed/isolated in a traditional sense, although the jury is still out because there is much to learn. Either way, it mostly seems to act like an isolated system, subject to the second law of thermodynamics, which in essence means that it will one day indeed be a homogenous mass at the lowest possible energy state. No, concede isn't the right word. Repeat? I repeat. ;D

Will you then concede that the second law of thermodynamics only pertains to an isolated system? I assume yes, because by definition it does.

Let me briefly discuss again why the Earth is not an isolated system. It is open to space debris, providing matter, and solar radiation, providing energy. Energy is what allows reactions to go against the thermodynamic norm toward lower energy configurations. It's why humans need to eat, why you heat acid to better dissolve certain minerals, and why plants need the sun to photosynthesize and produce sugars. Now, the universe (I think you will agree) is not a homogeneous mass at the moment. Matter is distributed unevenly, and exists as things like stars and planets which are separate from one another. Although the entirety of the universe is seemingly an isolated system, it takes time for any reaction to reach equilibrium (in this case Heat Death). So although you are correct in assuming one day it will end up that way, Earth included, that is not what is happening now. The reactions that are necessary to have heat death are going, but you cannot have heat death until there are no more reactants to react into products.

To conclude, yes. Life is counter to the general trend in the universe. Life in general. Yes, there are open systems in "closed" systems. This results because the universe is still in a non-equilibrium state, but it is working towards one. (As all systems work towards equilibrium, like the human body even). When the sun dies, when the Earth no longer provides heat, natural life will no longer be possible on this planet.

We're all heading toward entropy, we aren't there yet.
Cheers.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: knoledgeispower

SnF nice find knoledgeispower. This may come off odd but I think there are things in the genes to allow perseverance past issues the species may face which encourage the species makes it.
Ex: trapped in a cave complex due to outside activites forcing some within them may cause a genetic upgrade in the next generations
Forced to live in space and something within the genetics activates to allow for long term space travel
species degraded attacked experiences ELE event and something in the genetics activates insuring the strongest genes are birthed that can assist in repopulating the species...

If this assumption is correct, then there has to be something intelligent interacting enough to see the potential surroundings and or habitats the species may encounter and preplanned within the genetics how to overcome.

Look at the animal kingdom for your answer. There are many species that have to adapt all the time to their surroundings.
There are animals that have evolved to have no eyes because they live in dark caves.

The intelligent being doesn't have to be constantly watching to make adjustments as we go, most of it is already preprogrammed in our DNA & RNA. Think of it like a switch, one switch says legs, one says paw, one says wing, one says fin, etc. Whatever is needed is switched on.

I remember watching a documentary where scientists were taking a chicken while it is just starting to develop in the egg & change the DNA strand that gives it feathers and they gave it scales instead.

This article talks a bit about the process: how to make a dinosaur from a chicken

a reply to: hydeman11

Systems work towards entropy not equilibrium.

originally posted by: LightYearsAhead
The biggest question is - how Neanderthals or modern human, species that actually learn craftsmanship, to build weapons. Do we see any animals today making spears and throwing them to hunt, even chimps? That is because human has been greatly modified and has at least half of its origin coming from advanced species, ET or whatever... NO PURE ANIMAL will evolve into making spears and then developing its brain for agriculture, hunting to form the ancient civilizations? Something is really alarming hear when you hear 'Oh they just evolved, adapted and learned all these things' and no other animal ever did, animals only evolved their bodies to fit the environment - water, ground, but not they brains! Darn we lucky bastards, brain evolvers!

That is an untrue statement. Animals do use tools & yes there are chimps who use spears to hunt.
Spear-wielding chimps studied

April 11, 2008—Some chimps in Senegal use spears to hunt mammals, a discovery that rocked primatology. Now scientists believe the behavior may offer insights into our ancestors.

Crows

Increasingly, scientists find that crows and their relatives have exceptional birdbrains, proving extraordinarily adept at crafting twigs, leaves and even their own feathers into tools. Researchers have even discovered that crows might learn to drop stones in pitchers to raise the height of water inside, just like in Aesop's fable. Here's an article about crows Is your toddler as Smart as a Crow? No

Orangutans:
Orangutans in the wild have developed and passed along a way to make improvised whistles from bundles of leaves, which they use to help ward off predators. This apparently marks the first time an animal has been known to use a tool to help it communicate, and is mounting evidence that culture — defined as knowledge passed from one generation to the next — isn't something unique to us humans.

Elephants:
Elephants are among the most intelligent animals in the world, with brains larger than those of any other land animal. Anecdotes suggest they can intentionally drop logs or rocks on electric fences to short them out and plug up water holes with balls of chewed bark to keep other animals from drinking them away. Asian elephants are even known to systematically modify branches to swat at flies, breaking them down to ideal lengths for attacking the insects.

Dolphins:
Dolphins are renowned as brainiacs of the seas, and scientists recently discovered they can be tool-using workaholics as well. A group of bottlenose dolphins in Shark Bay, Australia, carries marine sponges in their beaks to stir ocean-bottom sand and uncover prey, spending more time hunting with tools than any animal besides humans.

Sea Otters:
Sea otters, the largest members of the weasel family, use stones to hammer abalone shells off the rocks and crack the hard shells of prey open, making them the only known tool-using marine mammal for decades, until dolphins came along.

Octopuses:
An octopus that uses coconut shells as portable armor is the latest addition to a growing list of tool users in the animal kingdom. The veined octopus apparently can stack coconut shell halves that people discarded just as one might pile bowls, sits atop them, makes its eight arms rigid like stilts, and then ambles the entire heap across the seafloor, using them for shelter later when needed. These new findings are apparently the first reported instance of an invertebrate that acquires tools for later use.

Macaques:
Macaques living near a Buddhist shrine in Lopburi, Thailand, are known to pull out hair from visitors to use as floss to clean their mouths. Females even slow down and exaggerate their motions when they notice their young watching them jerking hair back and forth between their teeth, suggesting education is a very ancient trait in the primate lineage.

a reply to: hydeman11

Although extinction is a natural phenomenon, it occurs at a natural “background” rate of about one to five species per year. Scientists estimate we're now losing species at 1,000 to 10,000 times the background rate, with literally dozens going extinct every day .

Source

Acceleration.......
As above, so below.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Hello,
Ah, thankfully I don't have to explain why scientists are so nervous about potential man-made climate change now. Absolutely, we seem to be experiencing abnormally high extinction rates, usually related to man's influence on ecosystems, via draining wetlands, paving over forests, and farming/agriculture on otherwise unsuitable lands. Humans are an environmental change. We are the only organism to go beyond what the environment can handle, and soon we might no longer have the ability to do so.

That said, maybe this extinction isn't human caused... Maybe. Mass extinction events usually have a trigger related to climate, one with a gigantic bolide (K-T/K-Pg nowadays)... For a list of those extinctions and their likely triggers, link below...

en.wikipedia.org...
(Perhaps the graph is most telling. Note that the x axis mya, and the y-axis is "apparent marine genera extinction during time period," and absolute numbers could be slightly higher or slightly lower. I'd suggest clicking the image and reading the summary at the bottom as to understand why these factors are used.)

Cheers.

a reply to: NthOther

Gotta find a way to stay relevant in the peoples' minds so that you can keep the money rolling into your university. So many industries are based on the constant production of BS that you must constantly re-up on.

a reply to: Moresby

I wouldn't call it vast controversy. And looking more carefully at the article the bones are from "archaic humans" not "homo sapiens". Archaic humans are different from homo sapiens in a number of anatomical ways. This would just add another. But, again, I think the findings are probably wrong. Either the apparent forms aren't really there. Or the bones turn out to be neanderthal rather than archaic human.

Firmly established data proves your arguments are without merit. You do neither yourself nor your claims any good by posting such easily-refuted gibberish.

Both Neandertals and Denisovans are archaic humans. Homo sapiens that migrating into the lower latitudes of East Asia interbred with them.
DNA proves that archaic human genetic markers are found in the gene pool of some Southern Chinese, New Guinean, and other Micronesian Island populations today.

What this shows is the origins of human differentiation, based on geography and migrations.

Before I forget..
Murgatroid! Mutate or face extinction!

The genetic and migratory evolution of humanity is certainly complex and rightly, anthropologists are revising opinions as more developments are realised.

The whole 'one type' human of a mitochondrial common ancestor wandering out of Africa and eventually spreading into the Levant then Europe as the entire hypothesis is utter speculation and whilst it might be a part of the picture, it certainly isn't the whole picture.

Rather recently humanity believed all sorts of things like Earth being the centre of the Universe. The scientific 'enlightenment' has only just begun IMO.

originally posted by: Moresby
a reply to: hydeman11

Systems work towards entropy not equilibrium.

Correction: CLOSED systems work towards entropy.