Should alcohol and tobacco be illegal ?

Dont take my alcohol!!

*starts shaking and runs away screaming*

There is nothing wrong with weed,alcohol or tobacco...you dont like it, dont take it...thats what i say

Originally posted by instar
This post is for the anti pot legalisation mob, who justify their own habits, tobacco and/or alcohol by saying, its legal.

Lets here you spout facts about health damage and social cost of alcohol and tobacco?

The direct question is, why is alcohol/tobacco use ok because its legal and pot use not ok because its illegal, apart from the obvious, is this criminalisation of pot justified when alcohol/tobacco is legal?

No it is not justfied. Either make it all legal or make it all illegal. Its time to stop the favoritism. Fyi I am all for the banning of alcohol and tobacco. Yeah I am saying that as I light up. I have tried to quit for years and everytime I go in public there is someone smoking. I did great once for like almost a year and then I go in public and get stressed. Boom next thing I know I have a pack of smokes in my hand. Now if it was banned then I would not have access to it. I would be smoke free right now. sigh

I think it's pretty obvious which ones of you (Lady V, dgtempe, and just_a_pilot) are supporters of a big government who believe it is their right to tell other people how to live their lives.

However, unlike you, I do not trust the government with that much power, and believe that every bit of power we give them will ultimately be used against us.

Now I am sure that the three of you are not one hundred percent supporters of a NWO-type government (although I wouldn't be able to tell it from your posts on this thread). I am sure that there may be a few things that you distrust about George Bush and Company.

One of the few things the government can do quite well is to convince well- meaning people like you that it's just going to outlaw the things that you disapprove of.

They're suckering you.

Once they get rid of the things you want them to get rid of (like cigarettes) then they'll go after guns or gay marriages or abortions or uppity bloggers or Mormons or ... but you get the picture.

When you support the NWO government in their quest to take away any of our freedoms (which is, of course, what you are doing here) you are handing them the rope they will use to hang us all, sooner or later.

Yeah, and we should triple the taxes on Big Macs because they can lead to obesity. Or we could just live as a free country and give people the freedom to drink or smoke whatever they want. This country is becoming one of more and more restrictions and laws. If I'm not bothering anybody, while drinking, smoking or whatever, leave me the F alone. BTW I never smoked tobacco and only tried pot years and years ago. Drinky?, yeah me likes my drinky on teh weekends.

firstly, if alchohol is AGAIN made illegal virtually ALLeffective cold and flu medicines/remidies will be gone as well.

i really have no problem with legalization of pot. where i have a problem,
and it not only applies to pot but most other aspects of life as well. that
is Responsibility. Lawyers and government have become much to involved.

when i was a kid if i went out and got drunk and wrecked my car, it was my fault period. i did it i owned it. today somebody gets drunk and wrecks their car,
its the bartenders fault or the bar owners fault or the mfgs fault. never the person slamming the shots fault.

if a kid takes a gun to school and kills someone, its not their fault, its not their parents fault, its the guns fault, its the mfgs fault.

its time individuals are held responsible for their own actions.

there was a case several years ago where a burglar broke into a home and was injured resulting in being paralysed. his family sued the homeowners
and won. the basis? loss of income.

another thing that just may be unhealthy for you.....YOUR JOB!!!

Nobody's taking my beer!

Seriously...any legislative method of regulating peoples behaviours, such as laws banning smoking, booze, and especially access to drugs is doomed to fail, as evidenced by the "War On Drugs", which itself has taken more lives than the drug abuse which is supposedly seeks to prohibit.

Substance abuse, whether it be cigarrettes, heroin, alcholhol, etc. is a health problem and should be treated as such by lawmakers. Instead in the US we have a situation where addicts of any type are criminalised in pop culture, and legislators design drug laws to attack the disadvantaged enduser, rather than attack the distribution network of the black market created by the very existence of the laws themselves. An example of the intellectually stunted, backwardmindedness of the Federal Government was the moratorium on needled exchange programs for IV drug users during the 90's. Needle exchange was a policy which could have drastically slowed the spread of AIDS, hepatitis and a host of other infections via shared needls, not to mention provided recognition that people are going to use and abuse intravenous drugs regardless of their legal status, so why not at least try to make it more hygenic in the interest of public health?

Instead, Federal and State governments are more concerned with partnering with private business interests to further industrialize the prison system. Those draconian drug laws are the mechanism with which fresh bodies are procured.

Abdul, I agree with much of your post, but I question where you say:

[Drugs are] "...a health problem and should be treated as such by lawmakers."

I believe it is a health problem and should be treated as such by the patient and doctor. Why should the government be involved at all?

Wine can stay legal.

I will continue to whistleblow on anyone using pot illegally.

Originally posted by sen5e
I will continue to whistleblow on anyone using pot illegally.

Whatever that means....*puffs on a bowl*

Well - As many have said, Tobacco and Alcohol are our modern day LEGAL opiates/vices....Taking them away is going to get the same type of reaction as telling a little kid he can't have a candy bar while you're in the check-out lane of the super market

I don't think that's anything worth worrying or thinking about though....I doubt that would ever happen, and if it did, it would be reversed by force...

But there's no real connection (addictively speaking) behind what makes one thing legal and another substance illegal....It primarily revolves around how much money the gov't can make off of saps who get caught doing the wrong thing and the wrong time...

Lots of people enjoy getting drunk and stoned - Fun times - But a lot of people also enjoy drinking coffee and huffing paint.....Are they going to make drinking coffee illegal and paint huffing legal? Nooo....

Or at least not until someone sues....

I'm all for legalzing whatever the hell it is people like to do....Let people be responsible for their own bodies and for the damage they cause to others around them when they're #ed up....

But like I said in the comment above - Anyone can sue anybody for anything at any time....and that usually results in constrictions, penilaztions, strengthening of pre-exisiting laws....So the real problem is sorting out these sue-happy people and getting our courts back on a progressive agenda as opposed to a corrupt one...

And good luck with that!

Viva la Revoltion!

[edit on 12/3/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun

Originally posted by sen5e
I will continue to whistleblow on anyone using pot illegally.

Whatever that means....*puffs on a bowl*

It's an American expression translated to mean "I'll call the cops/feds on you".

Be forewarned immigrants.

Originally posted by sen5e
It's an American expression translated to mean "I'll call the cops/feds on you".

Be forewarned immigrants.

[sarcasm]Oh, I see...[/sarcasm]

Please do

If they are going to ban smokes and booze, then that means politician's can no longer drink and smoke.... I'm not to sure if they'd be willing to give up the very things that make it easier for them to getaway from reality... Yes their jobs are hard, demanding, and unfavorable to many...

Aren't they the biggest hardcore drinkers when it comes to liquors???
Burbon, brandy, scotch, cognac, the more potent the more relaxed their lives can be... why would they want their escape route taken away???

Originally posted by TrueLies
Aren't they the biggest hardcore drinkers when it comes to liquors???
Burbon, brandy, scotch, cognac, the more potent the more relaxed their lives can be... why would they want their escape route taken away???

Think about the money they throw down on that too! They're what make the elite liqour companies exist...

Whens the last time you heard of a politician drinking some Taaka vodka

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
Whens the last time you heard of a politician drinking some Taaka vodka

Never!

And I don't think we ever will... Unless they are appeasing the masses and drinking with them....

I believe this needs to be looked at very closely. My views may come as a suprise to those who think they know me as a "neocon."

The legal drinking age should be completely removed. The parents should decide if and when or how they teach their kids about alcohol consumption. Maybe it wouldn't be so "cool" for minors to binge drink at an early age. They may also learn the proper way to socially drink.

I'm a smoker, they can tax the hell out of my cigarettes, I'll quit when I'm ready. I'm just waiting for the price of cigarettes to get so high crackheads are robbing gas stations for a smoke. Bums will be sucking... thumbs... for a hit of nicotine.

Marijuana should be more tolerated in this country too. Another source of tax income for the government? The only problem is that anyone with a "respectable" job usually gets drug tested occasionally. Would people still lose their jobs if marijuana was legalized?

Certain "hard drugs" should remain illigal though...

I've never met a pot-head I didn't get along with.

Originally posted by LostSailor
The only problem is that anyone with a "respectable" job usually gets drug tested occasionally. Would people still lose their jobs if marijuana was legalized?

I think many companies already have addressed this issue in case of any immediate changes...

Most agree that as long as you don't show up to work stoned out of your gourd and smelling like a skunk, all is gravy....

Originally posted by slank
I am a capitalist. Your body is your own temple. The government has no interest in that which affects no one but yourself.

You sound more like a modern satanist. Have you ever seriously considered the possibility that you own nothing, not even your own body?

Behavior is the key. You are always responsible for your behavior. Under the influence or not under the influence your actions and the judgements that likely contributed to them fall on YOUR head.

Trouble is, some people don't fit that ideal definition.

The government should do broad clinical research on all drugs with no biases. Then make findings available to the public. Individuals will make their own choices and be responsible for their own actions.

Better capitalists than you would have said: the government should do nothing.

I am an adult. The government cannot/shouldnot make my decisions for me. Considering the way the government is run should be sufficient evidence that I can make as good [or better] a decision about my own life.

I can agree that a good political decision process has not yet been found. But meanwhile, we can have laws that enable us to live peacefully, as opposed to living in gang-land war zones.

Socialistic impositions of other people's [so called] moral values is just creeping communism. And most proponents of invasive and imposing legislation are just little closet Hitlers and Stalins.

It's not just moral values. The legislation has to make a choice towards what is best and away from what is worst. According to your ideas, people who lived under a chaste system (in India) for thousands of years wouldn't deserve anything better.

Pleasure seeking tends to be good for the economy. Those of high intelligence will be cautious about it, those that aren't cautious will probably imbib by illicit means. Does anyone find it interesting that the great depression coincided with prohibition? If you push commerce underground it simply creates crime which costs taxes to fight instead of contributing tax dollars from businesses and employment.

Sure, the economy is fueled by desire. It also leaves a lot of used bodies laying around. "Caution" is just a temporary state of mind. You can't count on it.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun

Most agree that as long as you don't show up to work stoned out of your gourd and smelling like a skunk, all is gravy....

hmmmm... It's Friday night ATM.... But I have to ask... Do skunks really smell bad? If you know what I mean?

Freedom = choice. Anyone who wants to make everything that's bad for you illegal doesn't care much for freedom. Maybe we should all be assigned a script a birth and not given any choice for anything.