Should alcohol and tobacco be illegal ?

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posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:32 PM
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This post is for the anti pot legalisation mob, who justify their own habits, tobacco and/or alcohol by saying, its legal.

Lets here you spout facts about health damage and social cost of alcohol and tobacco?

The direct question is, why is alcohol/tobacco use ok because its legal and pot use not ok because its illegal, apart from the obvious, is this criminalisation of pot justified when alcohol/tobacco is legal?




posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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I think that Cigarettes should be illegal, but then id be reduced to scoring a pack of smokes on street corners inhabited by guys with guns and lots of bling jewellery.
Or i could just stop.


I don't think it would work in all seriousness, it would just go underground and encourage crime, like, Prohibition in the 1920's in the US.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:47 PM
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Hell no, cigarettes and alcohol should not be illegal. If they were outlawed there's be riots in every street in every town. I know I would start one. Then I would start killing people.
Much like the robot Bender from Futurama, I too am fueled by alcohol and tobacco. I need them to live, happily at least. If you took away my smokes and beer, I would have nothing to do but become an unstanding citizen. Then I would be forced to kick my own ass. I wouldn't want to have to kick my own ass. Or would I??? No, I wouldn't.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:56 PM
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I agree with Janus, organised crime is rich enough as it is...

Anyway Jesus turned the water into wine at the wedding at Cana in the Gospel of St John and how are we going to have communion without wine ?

As a Christian country we can't very well ban alchohol, thats what the muslims would do...

and we couldn't have that...



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:56 PM
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Hell yes they should be! If fools want to riot in the streets....what can ya say? It takes all kinds! If the government is going to keep marijuana illegal, and street drugs are illegal because they are bad for you, seat belts are a law because they protect you...why are these two killers legal!? It has never made much sense to me. Alcohol kills more people than all illegal drugs combined. When you add alcohol related disease and illness, those killed by drunk drivers, broken homes...and the health risk of smoking, we all know those. If one is illegal because it's bad for you than they should all be illegal. Doesn't bother me a bit anyway as I don't do any of it....but fair is fair! It just makes no sense to have some illegal and others not. Riots in the streets over such thing...what a mentality!



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:08 PM
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.
Prohibition was tried once on alcohol. A bunch of 'We know better than yous' decided it was immoral.

I am a capitalist. Your body is your own temple. The government has no interest in that which affects no one but yourself.

Behavior is the key. You are always responsible for your behavior. Under the influence or not under the influence your actions and the judgements that likely contributed to them fall on YOUR head.

The government should do broad clinical research on all drugs with no biases. Then make findings available to the public. Individuals will make their own choices and be responsible for their own actions.

I am an adult. The government cannot/shouldnot make my decisions for me. Considering the way the government is run should be sufficient evidence that I can make as good [or better] a decision about my own life.

Socialistic impositions of other people's [so called] moral values is just creeping communism. And most proponents of invasive and imposing legislation are just little closet Hitlers and Stalins.

Pleasure seeking tends to be good for the economy. Those of high intelligence will be cautious about it, those that aren't cautious will probably imbib by illicit means. Does anyone find it interesting that the great depression coincided with prohibition? If you push commerce underground it simply creates crime which costs taxes to fight instead of contributing tax dollars from businesses and employment.

**footnote the prohibition of alcohol did have some attitude changing results about excessive drinking, which probably was a reasonable result of it.
.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:11 PM
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slank....doesn't matter if your an adult. My point is that if they are going to make some things illegal because it's bad for you, than all the bad should be illegal, or make it all legal, one or the other.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:18 PM
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LadyV, i agree with you. Why just take away SOME of the stuff? Take it all so we can all be equally denied everything. I, myself, would love to see booze made illegal.

If i cant have my cigarrettes, no one can drink either.


*preparations underway to clean basement*



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:19 PM
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Your point, LadyV, is your opinion, not rooted in the fact. Fact is, cuture is what determines what drug is acceptable and which is not. True, we now know that one average joint has more carcinogens than an entire pack of Marlboros, but this was not known or suspected when marijuana was outlawed. It was a cultural thing. On the other hand, tobacco and alchohol have been accepted in Western cutlure for a long, long time.

Give it a few more years. I believe marijuana will be sold over the counter one day in the package stores.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:19 PM
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What??!!! Ban Booze? I could never agree to that! Seriously, I agree, banning booze wouldn't work because it would just go black market and that would just be even worse. I like my Rum and I'm not ready to give it up, getting drunk with friends is just way to fun.

Tobacco? I couldn't care less, I don't moke and I think its a filthy habit. As long as its not going on in my face, I don't mind people slowly killing themselves.

Pot? Don't smoke it but if some people want to I'm not the one who will try to stop them, I just really don't care. Why is it illegal while while Booze and smokes are? I don't know, why not allow it.

Now the only one I really care about is booze, it wouldn't be fair to spoil the fun for the rest of us even if some have problems with it. Make booze illegal and you'll see all those alcoholics get their booze from questionable sources.

Simply enjoy with moderation!



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:35 PM
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Why stop at alchohol and tabacco, if it's the principle that count's then something being bad for you should be all that matters...

Things that are bad for you...

Caffienated products : Coffee, Coke, Chocolate, Tea, Energy drinks.

Fried Food : Chips (fries), burgers, KFC, McDonalds, Burger King.

Saturated Fats : Milk, Butter, Cheeze, Red Meat, Chicken.

Other lifestyle activities : All extreme sports, Football, Baseball, Ice Hockey, Driving cars, etc...

Do you see where this line of thinking gets you?

It may not help you live longer but it will make your life seem like an eternity...



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:37 PM
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Well we already tried to make Alcohol illegal once in the US and that didnt work out to good. It created a huge underground of illegal Brewers,Moonshiners,Bootleggers, speak easys ect...

Instead, it added to the problems it was intended to solve. The crime rate soon skyrocketed to nearly twice that of the pre-prohibition period.

I think this same thing would happen if it was tried again with Alcohol or Tobacco people will still want it and get it but then you could arrest them and throw more people into our already overcrowded prisons were they can learn to become real criminals.

On the other side if you made pot legally available it would destroy the illegal marijuana trade. Plus we could stop spending our tax money locking up first-time offenders whose only crime was possession.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:39 PM
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We cant go around banning eveything just because it isnt good forus. I was against passing seatbelt laws, but they did it anyway. The government is growing to the point of controlling every aspect of our lives, our inputs and outputs, our media, music, tv, books, internet, food, luxury, etc. People have to learn things on there own. Im for putting down violent crime and civil unrest, but Im against anything that infringes on our liberties as long as it doesnt affect anyone else. In conclusion, you wanna smoke fine go outside so I dont have to breath it, wanna smoke weed fine do it at home so you dont walk n front of a bus, want to drink fine just dont drive and kill me or my loved ones.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Your point, LadyV, is your opinion, not rooted in the fact.


I don't think that I stated anywhere that it was anything other than opinion. What I did state is that if some is going to be illegal because it's bad for you, than others that are worse should be illegal too....as stated, combine those killed by drunk drivers, broken homes, abused kids,unborn children, those killed in alcoholic rages and the diseases from alcohol....it should be illegal from a health and safety standpoint.
Alcohol Statistics

* More than 100,000 deaths are caused by excessive alcohol consumption each year in the U.S. Direct and indirect causes of death include drunk driving, cirrhosis of the liver, falls, cancer, and stroke. 1

* At least once a year, the guidelines for low risk drinking are exceeded by an estimated 74% of male drinkers and 72% of female drinkers aged 21 and older. 9

* Nearly 14 million Americans meet diagnostic criteria for alcohol use disorders. 7

* Youth who drink alcohol are 50 times more likely to use coc aine than young people who never drink alcohol. 4

* Among current adult drinkers, more than half say they have a blood relative who is or was an alcoholic or problem drinker. 1

* Across people of all ages, males are four times as likely as females to be heavy drinkers. 1

* More than 18% of Americans experience alcohol abuse or alcohol dependence at some time in their lives. 8

* Traffic crashes are the greatest single cause of death for persons ages 633. About 45% of these fatalities are in alcohol-related crashes. 5

* Underage drinking costs the United States more than $58 billion every year enough to buy every public school student a state-of-the-art computer. 3

* Alcohol is the most commonly used drug among young people. 1

* Problem drinkers average four times as many days in the hospital as nondrinkers mostly because of drinking-related injuries. 1

* Alcohol kills 6 times more youth than all other illicit drugs combined. 3

* Concerning the past 30 days, 50% of high school seniors report drinking, with 32% report being drunk at least once.


Sources
1 Substance Abuse: The Nations Number One Health Problem, Feb. 2001
2 US Dept. of Health & Human Services
3 Mothers Against Drunk Driving
4 National Center on Addiction & Substance Abuse
5 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
6 Alliance Against Underage Drinking
7 Grant B, Harford TC, Dawson DA, et al. Prevalence of DSM-IV alcohol abuse and dependence, United States 1992. Alcohol Health & Research World 18(3). 1994.
8 National Institute on Alcohol Abuse & Alcoholism analysis based on U.S. Alcohol Epidemiologic Data Reference Manual, Vol. 6, 1st Edition. Drinking in the United States : Main Findings from the 1992 National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey. Bethesda , MD : NIAAA (in press).
9 National Institute on Drug Abuse and National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. The Economic Costs of Alcohol and Drug Abuse in the United States, 1995. 1998.
10 U.S. Dept. of Agriculture and U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services. Home and Garden Bulletin No. 232. Nutrition and Your Health. Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 1995.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by zsandmann
We cant go around banning eveything just because it isnt good forus..


I know we could end up with a world like in the movie Demolition Man. They did away with all that is harmful to people and the environment. Therefore there is no salt, sugar, tobacco, or meat.


Plus All restaurants are Taco Bell
NOOOOOO



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 08:47 PM
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If marijuana is illegal then i guess smoking should be illegal to. I would leave the country if they make smoking illegal! Im not a smoker but i think a person has the right to choose if they want to smoke as long as they know whats going to happen. Banning alcohol would just increase the suicide rate and hell lets make all drugs legal and tax it. It would be so good for the economy and thered be less illegal stuff.



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 10:44 PM
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LadyV is right. It is the only drug that will kill you in withdrawl. Its not a pretty withdrawl either. People litteraly die without medical aid to ease the symptoms, halucinations, seizures and on and on. Although I do not think alcohol should be banned. Pot should be legal. Most health care workers I know or have ever talked to about it agree that the effect of pot are far less harmful to the body than alcohol. I had a surgeon tell me he would rather have patients smoke a joint a day than drink a bottle of wine or six pack of beer.

If they would leagalize pot, the ol Commonwealth of Virginia could grow it instead of or with tobacco and sell it in their state owned monopoly liqour stores. I bet they would make a ton o' money.

Banning herbs, jeeze louise.

I am also in agreement with Joey's post below.

[edit on 12/1/2004 by just_a_pilot]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:17 PM
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I'm a former smoker (been off the ciggies for 3 years) and a former drinker (haven't had a drink since 1975..except for New Years' Eve 1999). I know, from experience that both are harmful to the body and sociologically harmful. With that said, I'm totally opposed to banning them. As others have pointed out, this would just lead to a VERY lucrative underground economy. This would turn over liquor and cigarettes to the underworld, would cause law-abiding citizens to break the law and would wreck general chaos.
The Prohibition experiment, often called the "Noble Experiment", was a dismal failure. It backfired and made drinking something sinful, naughty and, therefore, something everyone wanted to do. Alcohol consumption actually went up during Prohibition. And, of course, it was taken over by organized crime.
We can't outlaw every harmful or potentially harmful substance. At some point we have to take personal responsibility for our actions. Although I'm alcohol and cigarette free, I don't mind others who smoke and drink. They make their choices and I make mine. I'm not judgemental about it either. If someone is smoking, and it tempts me, then I move. No one has ever shoved a drink down my throat.
Of course, I'm in favor of carefully controlled and legalized marijuana as well.
As for harder drugs, I sometimes think we should adopt the English system and have a registry of addicts. This would cut down on crime. However, I think there should be more opportunities for rehab as well. Many people don't go into rehab because they have no insurance or their insurance will not pay for it. I think society would be better served to put the money into rehab than into incarceration.
joey



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 06:30 AM
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Well said Joey! *claps loudly*

Thomas?

True, we now know that one average joint has more carcinogens than an entire pack of Marlboros,


Sorry mate i gotta challenge you about that
I find that very very difficult to beleive! Pot grown in the ground, dried and smoked, nothing added.
Marlbros ~tobacco grown in the ground, probably sprayed with pesticides,
then over 200 chemicals added ? I think not.

"Fetch da blowtorch Fat Tony"


summary:

The more laws they make, the more laws we'll break !



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 06:56 AM
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Don't challenge me, challenge those smart people with degrees that make those calls. Of course, they might also be the same ones responsible for the eggs are good for you/eggs are bad for you/eggs are good for you crap.
As was stated, as long as you know the facts and you don't hit the roads (Don't give me that crap about they can drive perfectly fine while stoned. After pulling a few off the road as an MP, I know better), and you don't use federal reserve notes to purchase the stuff, I see no reason why it is any of their business right now. So, being that as it is, they might as well tax it.



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