Teaching Creationism As Science Now Banned In All UK Public Schools

originally posted by: BMorris
...a quick Google search suggests that the teaching of creationism as a science was banned in 2012, to which some people took the education authority to court to get it taught as a valid scientific theory, and lost quite badly.

That made me chuckle.

Of course, the belief in creationism in children so young is forced on them by their parents. As the son of a church organist, I was put into Sunday School till I was 12. At that age I was given the chance to do Bible Studies, I would have declined but there were only 2 of us that age in the congregation and that would have left my friend Susan in a class of her own and I wouldn't have done that to her, so I carried on with bible studies for another 4 years.

Now that I am a parent I don't force any religion on my kids, even if I was a believer I wouldn't, I think religion, just like irrational fears should not be passed from parent to child and should be left for the individual to decide. Not everybody needs religion in their lives, some of us are strong enough without it...

Why should religious study be an alternative to normal science classes?

It shouldn't.

What a person believes when they exit the classroom is up to them, though.

This is a no brainer. I learned evolution in school. I never expected to be able to open a bible instead and still graduate.

What do I think about evolution? I don't know. I don't think we know everything about it. I think it's generally true. I don't worship it. In a roundabout way, I think much of our science is accurate within the confines of our reach. I think once we leave the confines of our reach, anything is possible: angels, demons, anti-gravity, leprechauns, etc.

Woot Woot!!! Than god! Hehe

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

The new church academies clauses require that "pupils are taught about the theory of evolution, and prevent academy trusts from teaching 'creationism' as scientific fact." And by "creationism" they mean:


[A]ny doctrine or theory which holds that natural biological processes cannot account for the history, diversity, and complexity of life on earth and therefore rejects the scientific theory of evolution. The parties acknowledge that creationism, in this sense, is rejected by most mainstream churches and religious traditions, including the major providers of state funded schools such as the [Anglican] [Catholic] Churches, as well as the scientific community. It does not accord with the scientific consensus or the very large body .....

Teaching Creationism As Science Now Banned In All UK Public Schools

Hooray for the Poms - for all those who are going to complain that this is some repression of religion or freedom of speech please note:

And in regards to protecting religious beliefs, the clauses acknowledge that the funding agreement does...


...not prevent discussion of beliefs about the origins of the Earth and living things, such as creationism, in Religious Education, as long as it is not presented as a valid alternative to established scientific theory.

so you can teach your creationism - but you are not allowed to lie about it being science!

the comments are delightful too

Woot woot! Thank god! :p

First, let me say I have no problems with students being given the option of taking a "religions", world cultures, or comparative mythology course. No problem with religious affiliated private schools teaching religion classes. Also, have no problem with parents raising their children in a religion. I don't agree children should . . . but, as a parent myself, I'm not going to dictate what parents can/can't expose their children to. That said . . .

If only we could get those standards passed in the U.S. . . . maybe we could see the general level of education and scientific literacy rise. Each year's graduates (secondary) in the U.S. seem to be less and less prepared for education. Although, as a former science teacher, I will say that the issue with the religious subterfuge of education is not isolated to science class. Evangelicals and born-agains are also trying to dumb down history and social studies curriculum to reflect their deluded view of American history re: the U.S. being a "christian nation". It was sad, sometimes, to hear supposedly educated school board members give their views on the "truth".

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

As a Christian, and as a person with a deep interest in the sciences, I for one could not be happier about this state of affairs.

Faith is something I regard as useful, necessary, but faith is for matters esoteric. When morality and ethics, and life lessons are required, faith, for me the Bible, is a damned good tool for a person to use to know a measure of the right and wrong of a thing, when too young to have experience to teach them.

To navigate the planet upon which we live, with some reasonable expectation of understanding and enjoying, and being interested in the experience, it is also necessary in my view, to take science into account. When ever a child picks up an object, and examines its physical parameters, or takes their first steps, that child is using scientific methods to achieve understanding, albeit fairly primitive trial and error style experimentation, but scientific methodology all the same.

It is vital that thinking of this sort be encouraged and nourished early, because only by that route, can the minds of the future be free enough and informed enough to plunge our species ever further into the cosmos, into a positive future.

Good call all round!

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

Hooray for the Poms - for all those who are going to complain that this is some repression of religion or freedom of speech please note:

And in regards to protecting religious beliefs, the clauses acknowledge that the funding agreement does...


...not prevent discussion of beliefs about the origins of the Earth and living things, such as creationism, in Religious Education, as long as it is not presented as a valid alternative to established scientific theory.

so you can teach your creationism - but you are not allowed to lie about it being science!

the comments are delightful too

Well, you are forgetting something vitally important ...

It is our duty, to see to it, that all children in our countries acquire an appropriate education. It's our duty, to ensure that every child, as an education and isn't taught false things.

Well, now think about this for a moment, and then prepare yourself for a real war in Europe with the religious communities. Because you can't allow a child to be put in a muslim school, or a christian school. Why? Because they will focus on creationism, and not on logic. That child, will learn to follow ... and not to use it's own mind.

So, even if these steps are positive ... they also lead towards disaster.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Also it wouldn't be the kids choosing it would be their parents.

Great news and it should have happened many years ago.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Hmm, big government defining that religious beliefs cannot be taught as being valid, and at the same time is incorporating Sharia Law?

No-one see that there are issues there?

And also legally defining non-biological factors of Biodiversity (such as Dynamical Systems - Chaos Theory & Mathematical Probability) as 'Creationism'.

Geenyus!

God not this shari law nonsense!

THE UK IS NOT ADOPTING SHARIA LAW!!!!!!


And religion has no place in the science class.

Its not big goverment interfering its just much needed seperation.

No ones stop the church or parents telling there kids about creationism.

a reply to: crazyewok
Couldn't agree with you molre about sharia its hardly a law for the sensible.

However I do think that kids should be taught about all the different major religions and importantly how religion is brainwashed into their heads in their formative years, in short its psychology in simple language aimed at the child's age. They would then be in a position to draw their own conclusions about the pros and cons of each, its a bit like giving lessons with the fishing rod.

If religion is only taught at home, most will only get a stunted or traditional view from parents or the extremists and unless armed with a full knowledge of religion and especially how it plays on the world stage they are vulnerable.

I don't believe creationism should be anywhere near a science lesson as it doesn't yet make sense to us and scientifically we are at the state of learning how the planet was put together and its past history. Such questions as to how could we have been placed on such a vulnerable system in the first place is a legitimate question when one considers that earth was clouted by another planet and as it could happen again, doesn't bode well for an omnipotent god figure's thinking, perhaps he should have paid more attention to his planet's vulnerability.

There's nothing worse than the reformed.
I used to be stupid like you. Now i'm clever and your not
I used to be weak like you. Now i'm strong and you're not.

I find it odd that on ATS atheists are so insecure they have to constantly comment on how clever and strong they are.
I've not actually met atheists so insecure in real life. and to be honest ii've never met any Christians that insecure.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: crazyewok
Couldn't agree with you molre about sharia its hardly a law for the sensible.

However I do think that kids should be taught about all the different major religions and importantly how religion is brainwashed into their heads in their formative years, in short its psychology in simple language aimed at the child's age. They would then be in a position to draw their own conclusions about the pros and cons of each, its a bit like giving lessons with the fishing rod.

If religion is only taught at home, most will only get a stunted or traditional view from parents or the extremists and unless armed with a full knowledge of religion and especially how it plays on the world stage they are vulnerable.

I don't believe creationism should be anywhere near a science lesson as it doesn't yet make sense to us and scientifically we are at the state of learning how the planet was put together and its past history. Such questions as to how could we have been placed on such a vulnerable system in the first place is a legitimate question when one considers that earth was clouted by another planet and as it could happen again, doesn't bode well for an omnipotent god figure's thinking, perhaps he should have paid more attention to his planet's vulnerability.

O we do in the UK

Religious education or RE is compulsury to age 14/15 in the UK, your taught the main religions in a partial manor.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: crazyewok
Couldn't agree with you molre about sharia its hardly a law for the sensible.

However I do think that kids should be taught about all the different major religions and importantly how religion is brainwashed into their heads in their formative years, in short its psychology in simple language aimed at the child's age. They would then be in a position to draw their own conclusions about the pros and cons of each, its a bit like giving lessons with the fishing rod.

If religion is only taught at home, most will only get a stunted or traditional view from parents or the extremists and unless armed with a full knowledge of religion and especially how it plays on the world stage they are vulnerable.

I don't believe creationism should be anywhere near a science lesson as it doesn't yet make sense to us and scientifically we are at the state of learning how the planet was put together and its past history. Such questions as to how could we have been placed on such a vulnerable system in the first place is a legitimate question when one considers that earth was clouted by another planet and as it could happen again, doesn't bode well for an omnipotent god figure's thinking, perhaps he should have paid more attention to his planet's vulnerability.

O we do in the UK

Religious education or RE is compulsury to age 14/15 in the UK, your taught the main religions in a partial manor.

Yes, but my RE lessons led me to become an atheist!

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: crazyewok
Couldn't agree with you molre about sharia its hardly a law for the sensible.

However I do think that kids should be taught about all the different major religions and importantly how religion is brainwashed into their heads in their formative years, in short its psychology in simple language aimed at the child's age. They would then be in a position to draw their own conclusions about the pros and cons of each, its a bit like giving lessons with the fishing rod.

If religion is only taught at home, most will only get a stunted or traditional view from parents or the extremists and unless armed with a full knowledge of religion and especially how it plays on the world stage they are vulnerable.

I don't believe creationism should be anywhere near a science lesson as it doesn't yet make sense to us and scientifically we are at the state of learning how the planet was put together and its past history. Such questions as to how could we have been placed on such a vulnerable system in the first place is a legitimate question when one considers that earth was clouted by another planet and as it could happen again, doesn't bode well for an omnipotent god figure's thinking, perhaps he should have paid more attention to his planet's vulnerability.

O we do in the UK

Religious education or RE is compulsury to age 14/15 in the UK, your taught the main religions in a partial manor.

Yes, but my RE lessons led me to become an atheist!

And?

Is that not the point? Teach the options and let the individual decide?

originally posted by: BMorris
I thought it had been banned for quite a while now. Indeed a quick Google search suggests that the teaching of creationism as a science was banned in 2012, to which some people took the education authority to court to get it taught as a valid scientific theory, and lost quite badly.

Maybe that was just on the LEA level, dunno. But this is good news, an official ban on teaching a religion as a science. Yay for us.

Just waiting for this to happen in USA.... And I am sure it will happen.

If I got this correct, in UK you can now sue someone who is trying to represent creation as science?

originally posted by: Snarl

And no one _ever_ has conducted a scientific experiment (much less repeated it) where a change of species is evident (e.g. breeding two dogs and coming up with a cat).

That statement in itself shows such a massive ignorance of how evolution works. I find it astonishing that in this day and age with all the information at our fingertips such ignorance pervades. Even worse here on ATS with sooooo many people who have provided soooo many links to soooo many sources of information.

I am left with only one conclusion you choose NOT to believe the science for dogmatic reasons.....that's sad, religious jihadists have the same attitude....and we know where that leads !

originally posted by: crazyewok
And?

Is that not the point? Teach the options and let the individual decide?

They never said you can't teach different options in UK, but you can't hide creationism ideas inside science. It is not science, it will never be science... you can teach it as part of history, literature or perhaps art class... as long as you remove 'another scientific theory' from it...

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
That statement in itself shows such a massive ignorance of how evolution works. I find it astonishing that in this day and age with all the information at our fingertips such ignorance pervades. Even worse here on ATS with sooooo many people who have provided soooo many links to soooo many sources of information.

I am left with only one conclusion you choose NOT to believe the science for dogmatic reasons.....that's sad, religious jihadists have the same attitude....and we know where that leads !

Ignorance is very contagious, and this is not product of bad education, this is product of brainwashing...

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: BMorris
...a quick Google search suggests that the teaching of creationism as a science was banned in 2012, to which some people took the education authority to court to get it taught as a valid scientific theory, and lost quite badly.

Now that I am a parent I don't force any religion on my kids, even if I was a believer I wouldn't, I think religion, just like irrational fears should not be passed from parent to child and should be left for the individual to decide. Not everybody needs religion in their lives, some of us are strong enough without it...

If only all religious folk would take a leaf out of your book!

Out of all posts on this thread, your one stood out most. I would like to add that you don't 'have' to be strong to live without religion. You can be kind, honest, generous, forgiving, gentle, benevolent (include all other Christian qualities here) WITHOUT being religious, this is an un disputable fact.

Ps It was a wonderful thing you did for your friend Susan.

Reading this thread is literally the best news I've heard this year, and has genuinely brightened my day to no end.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Thats not what I was getting at.

I agree with keeping religion out of science class.


I was just replying to a posters comments about RE.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
Also it wouldn't be the kids choosing it would be their parents. Great news and it should have happened many years ago.

You're either teaching science or you're not. Bronze-age middle eastern folk tales are not science.