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Teaching Creationism As Science Now Banned In All UK Public Schools

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posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: SuperFrog

I'll be respectful as I say this, because it's my way of things and I don't go in for always saying what might be on my mind.

However, I am "delusional" I suppose, as I do very strongly define my life by Religious Faith. Always have to some degree. It isn't organized religion to name one of the 5 majors...but it's a defining core to my life and daily existence for how I pursue each day. I share this with over 80% of the population of this planet.

So... It's more than a little offensive when those who don't share that view can't simply disagree..and I don't mean you personally at all here, it's a trending thing across society as a whole....without being directly and deeply insulting or derogatory. I know some religious people are just as bad ..and I hold them similarly low for opinion when they are.

Creationism tho...is what the VAST MAJORITY of this world's people believe. In one form or another, from one God or Deity or another and for one purpose or another. That all varies as much as weather, race or the opinion of both among men and women. Respect for both those who choose not to believe...as well as those who make it their life's focus ...ought to be universal, however seldom some manage to achieve that.

Just one bunny's thoughts, trying to find a path in life, like everyone else I imagine.

* Oh..an additional thought.. Many seem to take this wild and outlandish idea (in my view) that Creationism and Evolution are mutually exclusive concepts? Why is it impossible to say there was inspiration for the origins of life in a puddle of goo ..or not..to be the point here ..and then, by the way of nature as we see it every day, THAT life evolved into the endless variety we see now over millions of years to change? I've never seen it as Either/Or by any stretch.




posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: SuperFrog

* Oh..an additional thought.. Many seem to take this wild and outlandish idea (in my view) that Creationism and Evolution are mutually exclusive concepts? Why is it impossible to say there was inspiration for the origins of life in a puddle of goo ..or not..to be the point here ..and then, by the way of nature as we see it every day, THAT life evolved into the endless variety we see now over millions of years to change? I've never seen it as Either/Or by any stretch.



To the quiet minority it's not a stretch by any means, but the quiet minority are rarely heard.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Ewok.. You shock me.. I mean that. It's worth nothing for the thread, we've also chatted a bit privately to give context for what isn't seen. However. I had no idea that England had formal religion classes with actual priests, ministers, nuns and imams to lecture to the class on the topics?

That is SO far beyond the edge of what we'd expect or even tolerate in America, right or wrong, I wouldn't have believe it had it not been said by someone I know to be a British citizen like yourself. It's just THAT far outside the norms of thought for me, anyway. Private schools? Sure... Public? Wow.

You really ought to do a thread on that from the perspective of having lived it, so those of us who literally cannot imagine it can understand how different our nations are in some narrow respects.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I will add not very school will provide the same level of RE that I got in my state school but all schools do offer it in some level and it was last I checked compulsory up to age 15.

But to be honest Im equally surprised the US never had such a thing. It seems a standard thing for a multi cultural society.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: uncommitted

In some places...the minority are heard far louder than anyone else. I've lived in some and I frequent some now online, so to speak, and perhaps it's just not obvious to those on that side. I imagine not.

You know when I first came to ATS...the Right felt they were under siege and pummeled by the Left without mercy of chance to recover. Within months, I saw the Left saying the very same thing. I have no doubt the people of both sides sincerely meant it too. In their view, that was precisely what was happening ..and from the outside with hindsight now? It just meant there was some balance, when both sides feel put out at the same time.

It's that respectful discussion thing that seems to elude the topic all too often and which I really key on.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:29 AM
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I wish they'd ban creationism in the US. We could do with a bit of logic in our schools.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: simsumre

I believe in Jesus Christ almighty, Lord of Lords, King of Kings, and my own personal saviour. I also believe in trying to live by his example where possible. That means interacting with people of every walk of life, every social class, every religion and ideology going, and people from every spectrum of the political strata prevalent at the time.

In short, if it was good enough for Jesus to mix with the Godless, then it is good enough for me, and for that matter, for you. Anything else is hypocrisy, of a much grander scale than that perpetrated by persons who have no professed faith. You dirty the name of Jesus when you speak of your faith, so toxic is your method of worship, so isolationist. At least when atheists make an ass of themselves, they do not cheapen the name of a deity in the process.

With people with your attitude wandering about, spouting off at the mouth about how you do not mix with certain folk, you bloody HERO, it's no wonder the faith is looked down upon.

It's faith of your sort that makes Christianity look bad.


I agree, you're right. But we're all not Jesus Christ. We are flawed. So I agree, I'm wrong. Good on you brother, rub it in.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: simsumre

Rub it in?

You aren't even a bit sorry for your hateful attitude toward your fellow human beings! To even think of coming out with something as callous as you did, as snobbish, you aren't feeling genuinely aggrieved at your lack of perfection, you are just unhappy that you got called on it. Well this is one Christian to another, telling you to buck your ideas up and be honest with yourself about why you do and say the things you do. Do what you do out of love, and not spite.

No one is perfect, but there is a difference between recognising that and trying anyway, and using the fact as an excuse to deflect fair criticism.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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I'm again amazed that anyone on ATS can have a problem with religious claims of creationism being kept out of science classes. I doubt that in the thousands of state funded UK schools there are more than a handful of nut-job rabid fundamentalists actually trying to pollute science classes with their unsubstantiated claims, but I support any legislation to prevent it. Science is evidence based, while religious claims are of course not.

On a side note, I didn't realise Religious Education was still taught as a GCSE subject. My son has recently completed his school exams and religion was covered for the last 5 years under the class "Philosophy and applied ethics" (PAE) - I incorrectly assumed that this had become the norm in other schools as well.
PAE has provided much better skills to my son than any strictly religious class ever could have. Whilst gaining an awareness of ALL religious beliefs, from Abrahamic to Zoroastrianism, the focus has been on morality, critical thinking, reasoning and logic.
A side effect of teaching about all the many conflicting religions of the world is a realisation that they cannot all be true, it is one of the reasons my son does not believe in any taught faiths, and knows only a handful of schoolmates who actually believe in any gods.

Yes, teach religion as an awareness of differing faiths, as this promotes tolerance and understanding, but in science classes in a state funded school? You've gotta be having a laugh if you think that is remotely defensible.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: simsumre

Rub it in?

You aren't even a bit sorry for your hateful attitude toward your fellow human beings! To even think of coming out with something as callous as you did, as snobbish, you aren't feeling genuinely aggrieved at your lack of perfection, you are just unhappy that you got called on it. Well this is one Christian to another, telling you to buck your ideas up and be honest with yourself about why you do and say the things you do. Do what you do out of love, and not spite.

No one is perfect, but there is a difference between recognising that and trying anyway, and using the fact as an excuse to deflect fair criticism.


I post my opinion, that's all I've ever done. I never claimed to be perfect, and I'll continue to do the best I can as a flawed human being. Call me out on that all you want, I will not apologize for having an opinion.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Some interesting links to explain.

UK RE curriculum

Wiki overview

Of course the system not perfect and there needs to be maybe some reforms of certain areas but it is a usefull class in a mufti cultural society.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:10 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
Of course the system not perfect and there needs to be maybe some reforms of certain areas but it is a usefull class in a mufti cultural society.

Indeed. My teenage son knew more about the Sunni/Shia Islamic divide and distribution in various countries than I did when the whole ISIS thing erupted recently. All of it covered in 5 years and a GCSE called Philosophy and Applied Ethics. He has never had a class subject called Religious Education, and I am glad his school has been so forward thinking dealing with religion. They have met the national curriculum and improved it with wider education about morality, existence, reality and the like...much more useful to a child in my opinion.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Firstly,

sorry if I offended you in any way. That was not my intention,nor it ever will be. I just got tired of people, like the one Dawkins interviewed, who are trying to propagate creationism into science class under 'critical thinking' and 'another theory', where creationism, as it is based on religion and belief - has nothing to do with science, witch is strictly based on testing, results and repeatability.

There is no evidence behind creationist ideas, there never was and bible can't be counted as nothing more then collection of folklore tales.

I know, this might sound rather blunt, but this is truth... and if 80% of people believe in it, for me it just means that 80% people are wrong and uneducated - meaning - we did poor job at education. Actually that number falls down dramatically with education and some countries have rather high number of people that don't believe in creationism.

USA is rare developed country that still holds on religion, but that is just one among other things that USA is strangely leading, second one being guns... let's not go there...

If you will believe polls, number of people not believing in creationism even in states is on rise... witch is IMHO promising. (source* - www.gallup.com... )

And for end, let me quote Dr. Tyson:



“I don’t have an issue with what you do in the church, but I’m going to be up in your face if you’re going to knock on my science classroom and tell me they’ve got to teach what you’re teaching in your Sunday school. Because that’s when we’re going to fight.”

“There’s no tradition of scientists knocking down the Sunday school door, telling the preacher, That might not necessarily be true. That’s never happened. There’re no scientists picketing outside of churches.”

“Once upon a time, people identified the god Neptune as the source of storms at sea. Today we call these storms hurricanes…. The only people who still call hurricanes acts of God are the people who write insurance forms.”


And yes, evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive. You either take all evidence and believe in evolution, or you exclude evidence and preserve your belief. There is no middle ground.
edit on 19-6-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: Restricted
Really hope that happens. I cannot stand people telling me evolution is theory and to "prove it".



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:18 PM
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Great news.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: SuperFrog
So... It's more than a little offensive when those who don't share that view can't simply disagree..and I don't mean you personally at all here, it's a trending thing across society as a whole....

I never get tired of saying this buuuuuuuut ...

The lack of fire being set to people and the absence of religion being a taboo topic is something I enjoy. There is a time and a place buuuuuuut its pretty rare for me to see two people screaming at each other over religion. Is good progress, society is pretty awesome in lot of Western places.


Creationism tho...is what the VAST MAJORITY of this world's people believe. In one form or another, from one God or Deity or another and for one purpose or another. That all varies as much as weather, race or the opinion of both among men and women. Respect for both those who choose not to believe...as well as those who make it their life's focus ...ought to be universal

I dunnnnnnnnnnnnno ... the Lord Xenu thing does kind of push my buttons when Tom Cruise is Keeping Scientology Working.


Do you really honestly 100% respect persons regardless of what they believe? I'm not so sure, cos I've seen you lose your bunny ears before.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: Snarl

Understanding that we don't know the answer to how the universe formed is not buying into another belief system. Watching study and experiment slowly paint the picture and allow for it to evolve as our understanding evolves is not another belief system. We can know things, allow for new evidence and apply knowledge to test. We don't have to know the answer to everything immediately.

Science is not a belief system, if anything it is a doubt system, which requires successful application of an idea to earn plausibility and allows for modification of any idea.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 01:16 PM
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I think the problem here is the implication of what teaching evolution does. All the textbooks about evolution like to quote the 6000-year old Earth argument from the Bible(a lot of which are passed down by oral accounts from previous generations), and then try to falsify it with the fossil record, which gives the implication that God does not exist, guilty or fallacy by association, so to speak, and as we can see in the past that this can be very dangerous. Heck, it is said that nothing enrages the Chinese more than the Bible. Basically, they have been so ingrained by the concept of evolution(and associating it with atheism) and racial supremacy(even though the DNA migration pattern shows that clearly, they are not unique whatsoever. In fact, if you go with current theories, then they are not even natives, the Homo Erectus are) that they are acting in the opposite direction.

I think if we're going to teach evolution, what we need is some kind of disclaimer in the textbooks such as evolution does not imply the lack of a God/Creator. In addition, neither gravity nor the Big Bang implies the lack of a creator(in fact, it implies one, and as I'll show later, everything in the universe, including evolution, acts randomly, until an intelligent force acts upon it. Ever wonder why you can be "stuck to something," yet can still move back and forth, and doesn't feel like you're upside down? If gravity is random, then it has to be the most unique random force in existence). Finally, Quantum Physics does not contradict a Creator either.

Science does not deny the existence of a Creator(but merely an attempt to explain how things work, no matter how counter-intuitive they may seem. It could be said that miracles are merely things we don't understand at the moment, not because they're "impossible"), that should be noted everywhere.



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: stormcell

But has it been shown that some kind of new, I guess, species of bacteria can emerge? If they can replicate every 20 minutes, then there should be a sufficient amount of time to duplicate the evolutionary time frame, for bacteria to evolve into a new species of bacteria, or a different organism altogether(what did the amoebas evolve into?)



posted on Jun, 19 2014 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: np6888

"Science does not deny the existence of a Creator(but merely an attempt to explain how things work, no matter how counter-intuitive they may seem. It could be said that miracles are merely things we don't understand at the moment, not because they're "impossible"), that should be noted everywhere. "

The fact that one can determine how things work negate having to have a creator. At least, a magical one as stated in the bible. If the creator is not some magical and illogical being, then he too would need to have started/or created from scratch. If he is a magical and illogical being then his creation would be magical and illogical and would never be understood by science.



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