PA mother of seven dies while serving two-day jail term for kids’ truancy violations

a reply to: kkrattiger

what uv'e just said is so wrong, just because a woman is bringing up 7 yes 7 children on her own shouldn't mean she's the bad mother some are making her out to be, if she gets her kids ready and out the door for school in the mornings that should be her roll done she shouldn't then have to follow them to school etc to make sure they walk in through the door for heavens sake, the poor woman was likely doing enough have 7 to look after and being a mother and father to them all oops did i just say father!!!! why's he not in jail ahhhhhhh its easier to stick the home maker there instead.........

a reply to: kkrattiger

Uv'e lost me there!

originally posted by: butcherguy
I was just thinking about this a bit. I wonder how those children of her seven that were truant... I wonder if they have thought about their mother dying in prison because of their actions?
She may have died at home due to natural causes instead, if that is what caused her death, but it very well may have been the stress of being in prison that brought about her demise. They will have the rest of their lives to think about that one.

I don't think they will do well without a mother, probably quite a bit worse than they were doing with one, already admittedly poorly, but I don't think it's going to make her children feel responsible. I think they will grow up as hopeless troublemakers and costly drains on society, while they blame the state.

You should read my post again. It says a parent should be able to show how theyve tried to work on a problem with their child/children. If they havent, then parent detentions or fines become an option.
Also, since you said you were "lost" by my other post: In it, I was hoping at least some of the 7 kids do not grow up to call people "twats", especially in online forums of a somewhat serious nature. Like you have.

a reply to: ballymoney50

a reply to: WeRpeons

You can't mention children getting into trouble without some uneducated ding dong advocating that we beat them. Anyone who stars these people are sick and demented.

All paddling teaches children is that adults can't control their anger and the only appropriate response is to immediately react with violence.

There is a reason it is completely illegal in 37 countries and 113 countries do not allow it in school. It forces parents to actually parent instead of taking short cuts to get their kids under control. Using corporal punishment to control children isn't any better than those who are chided for giving hyper children Ritalin to control them.


Study after study has shown that children who are treated with violence become violent teenagers and adults.


Which is why teen violence has dropped since corporal punishment has been banned in schools.

It also removes the chance for the child to learn how to handle problems with emotional intelligence.

Spanking children on the butt is inflicting pain on a future erogenous zone, which creates confusion for children when they become adults and associate sexual pleasure with pain.

Children learn through the parents. Hitting is shown to kids as the only way to handle problems. They don't get an opportunity to learn conflict resolution from the parent. Corporal punishment works against the process of ethical development. It teaches children not to engage in a particular behavior because they risk being beaten. But it does not teach them the reasons and ethics for not behaving in a particular manner.

This is why corporal punishment is mainly practiced in low income and poverty situations. 'The parents are not educated enough to know how to handle children any other way.

Fining a parent for a child's truancy makes no sense to me.

It just sounds to me like it's yet another way for the taxman to collect some dough to finance their mismanaged over-budget expenditures.

How does collecting money from the parent teach any consequences directly to the kid ?!

The kid should be punished by way of forced community service... aka: accountability for one's actions.

Have a bunch of truants out there with a stick and bag collecting garbage off the boulevards on a nice sunny Saturday afternoon, and you'll find a lot more kids thinking twice about skipping math class.

The result: Citizens have a cleaner looking neighbourhood, someone gets a new job supervising the kids picking up garbage, and the kid's learn a valuable lesson about actions and consequences... and the parents get to sit along the sidelines in their lawnchairs sipping on an iced tea laughing their asses off.

Win win.

a reply to: CranialSponge

Fining the parents for truancy law violations dates from a time when parental were responsible for their children. In those days, some parents would keep their children home from school to work at the farm or business, in violation of the law. Today, parents are the kids friends, and if the child doesn't attend school, it is just because the child 'does not feel like it' and today's society feel as if parents bear no responsibility in the
rearing of their children.

a reply to: CranialSponge

Well, fining the parent is teaching him/her the consequences of being a bad parent. If you don't take control of your children, you are punished. It's supposed to give you an incentive to make sure your kids go to school. If this doesn't work to change the parent into a good parent, how do you think making the kid pick up garbage is going to miraculously rehabilitate the kid? It might work for a little while, but they'll just slip back into their old routine because, well kids can be kinda dumb. Parents are supposed to be adults and are supposed to understand consequences a little better.

What the parents need to do is stay on top of those kids like fleas on a dog, to make sure those kids go to school and PREVENT all the truancy. It can be a hard job when you have a kid determined to skip school, but it's doable. It really is up to the parents, though.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: WeRpeons

Gee, I have never beaten or even spanked my 12 year old, and yet... she has only missed 2 days of school in the last 3 years. She probably hasn't missed more than 6 days altogether since she started Kindergarten.

I didn't take any nonsense from my 2. I started early training their brain "you go to school". It's a personal responsibility. It's the same as an adult going to work everyday. Today my kids have a great work ethic.

Fact: public schools are not free. They are supported by taxes (mostly). The school gets money per child, ONLY if that child is in attendance. Technically, this mother was stealing tax money from the school by keeping her children home.

The crime is stealing tax money from the school.

When a school loses money, it affects every child. The school works with a budget based on how much they get for each child. Excessive truancy has a severe affect on this budget.

a reply to: Annee
Very good points.
I agree that going to school is a great start to building a strong work ethic.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: CranialSponge

Well, fining the parent is teaching him/her the consequences of being a bad parent. If you don't take control of your children, you are punished. It's supposed to give you an incentive to make sure your kids go to school. If this doesn't work to change the parent into a good parent, how do you think making the kid pick up garbage is going to miraculously rehabilitate the kid? It might work for a little while, but they'll just slip back into their old routine because, well kids can be kinda dumb. Parents are supposed to be adults and are supposed to understand consequences a little better.

What the parents need to do is stay on top of those kids like fleas on a dog, to make sure those kids go to school and PREVENT all the truancy. It can be a hard job when you have a kid determined to skip school, but it's doable. It really is up to the parents, though.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that.

A kid that skips a class or two does not necessarily equate to bad parenting. It just simply equates to a teenager making a stupid decision.

My daughter is a perfect example of this.

When she was in grade 10, she and her friends decided one day that they wanted to hang out at the mall a little while longer and skipped their first class after lunch break.

Luckily for us parents, the school had a policy of taking roll call for each and every class throughout the day. If a kid didn't show up for one of the classes, the school would contact the parent either at home or at work. It's the only way we could have known that our daughters skipped a class midday.

Being the parents that we were, needless to say all of the girls faced some serious wrath from all of us when they got home. In fact, each of us got on the phone with each other and decided as a group how we were going to handle the doling out of punishment to the girls. It was all about ensuring consistency across the board to drive a message home to the kids.

But none of us were "bad parents". None of us needed to be "taught a lesson" about how to raise our kids.

It was the first and last time the girls pulled such a stupid thing... they had no idea about the school policy of attendance keeping that we parents were fully aware of. Good school policy and good parenting ensured that the kids learnt a valuable lesson at the end of the day.

But the point being: It still happened just the same, DESPITE how we raised out kids.

Kids will and do make mistakes.

They're teenagers, they're supposed to make mistakes... it's all a part of the growing up process.

If there was a policy that directly punished the kids across the board, this could eliminate any crappy parents that wouldn't handle the situation accordingly. And instead, force the kids to have to deal with the consequences on an individual basis, ultimately putting the ball in their court for future decision making... rather than entrusting that to parents who may or may not give a damn about their kids schooling.

A policy like that would take out the crappy parents from the equation and focus solely on the kids. Society cannot remedy bad parenting, we can only try to remedy the kids directly.

Therefore, fining the parents serves no purpose other than an easy tax grab.

However, I would support a policy that fined the parents AND punished the kids directly too. But leaving the kids out of the equation and entrusting that to the parents completely, in today's society, makes absolutely no sense to me.

Eventually these kids become adults, and then we the taxpayers are footing the bill for their lack of lessons learned about crime and punishment in their early years.

originally posted by: CranialSponge

When she was in grade 10, she and her friends decided one day that they wanted to hang out at the mall a little while longer and skipped their first class after lunch break.

Same here with my granddaughter (which I help raise). Only it was 6th grade, and she had ridden her bike to school with 3 other kids.

The school called. Parents contacted each other (wish I could say the other parents followed through on discipline, they didn't). She got grounded for a month and had to go apologize to the principle. The other kids got a warning from their parents, that was all.

She has not done it again. We'll see, she starts high school this semester. We did put a tracker on her phone. (Phone is necessary as mom works in Hollywood production. They have to be able to contact each other).

a reply to: CranialSponge

Yes, but you see, with your kid, it only happened once. You made sure as good parents, that it never happened again. I don't think you get fined for just one truancy, do you? It's when you have several unexcused absences that fines are involved. Several unexcused absences usually means the parents either don't care, or have totally lost control.

I have no problem with the school punishing the kids as well. But we must also hold the parents responsible.

a reply to: Annee

Trackers on phones are awesome. I would only use it if my daughter was someplace where I worry about her safety, OR if she has proven that I can't trust her (she hasn't done anything *yet*).

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Annee

Trackers on phones are awesome. I would only use it if my daughter was someplace where I worry about her safety, OR if she has proven that I can't trust her (she hasn't done anything *yet*).

She knows it's on her phone. We don't do sneaky.

We live in a beach area of Los Angeles. It's an outdoor living area. We are pretty strict, but she has a lot of freedom to hang out with friends too. She's suppose to check in every hour. If she doesn't we can track her down. And she better not turn her phone off or let the battery run out. Of course it does happen, but she does texts us a friends phone number we can contact her on. It is her responsibility to keep us informed. She's actually pretty good about it, for a 14 year old.

a reply to: CranialSpongeI agree with you,the kids need to be held accountable.


To those who say the parents need to make the kids go...what if the parents both work and leave before school starts.Better yet,what if its a single parent that has to work(as was the case with my mom)how do they make sure their kid(s) go?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: CranialSponge

Yes, but you see, with your kid, it only happened once. You made sure as good parents, that it never happened again. I don't think you get fined for just one truancy, do you? It's when you have several unexcused absences that fines are involved. Several unexcused absences usually means the parents either don't care, or have totally lost control.

I have no problem with the school punishing the kids as well. But we must also hold the parents responsible.

What if the child doesn't hand in their excuse?

The reason I am saying this is...Its what just happened to me and my wife.We have a 12 yr old son who would do that.He would get sick ,but he would not hand in his excuses we wrote.After the first couple times we grounded him.Still he would not hand them in. Eventually we got fined.In my mind if we pay that fine,how will that encourage him to turn in his excuses?

My wife and I talked to the magistrate and decided community service was the best thing to teach him that he is responsible for those unexcused days.

I bet they were someways responsible for her to die. This is ridiculous...

I can't find the article now but I read an article that stated the children were not absent but tardy! The mother had recently lost her home and was staying at a relatives home and was having difficulty getting the kids to school on time, but still got them there.

The mother died due to the jail withholding her blood pressure medication.

originally posted by: LeatherNLace

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
Are we really having to do time because our kids skip school?

Yes we are and yes we should. Minors are the parent's responsibility, period. I think that this should be expanded to include criminal charges for parents of bullies and ESPECIALLY gun owning parents who have their firearms used in school shootings.

Because minors aren't people, and people don't make their own decisions do they?

I'm guessing this is because you're too stupid to realize that kids can do whatever they want regardless of how "Great" of a parent you think you are. You could have been the perfect model AAA dad and then your son skips school for 2 months -- here is the catch, he made friends with the attendance lady first and she marked him present after being marked absent so it flies under the radar until they throw him out of school because he didn't show.

Then you're fined up the ass/jailed because you raised a clever boy.

Nobody should ever be punished for the actions of another, whether or not they are a minor, because we are all people and even Minors can tell you to go "f" yourself.

The point is, you can't control other people, not even kids -- therefor, you cannot be punished for what they chose to do on their own, that is not justice, that is injustice at it's finest.

Also, I didn't realize it was illegal to skip school. It might be a poor decision, but illegal? GTFO.