LGBTQ is forced on elementary students in schools without parents consent

a reply to: Christian Voice

Yea, "people like me" who are more educated hate being told no. No to what, I haven't the slightest.

I genuinely hoped this thread was dead when DTOM closed it briefly. I figured I'd seen the last of you because I don't bother with religious threads where I figured you lived. But it's still up, and your ignorance is showing again. The only thing worse than the hate and bile you spew are the cowards who star your posts but won't post on their own because they can't take bits and pieces from multiple sources and piece together a somewhat coherent argument for why they feel the way they do.

This whole thread had degenerated into "insults" (if you can call them that, this isn't the 17th century so throwing quotes from the book of lies has anything but the intended effect) from the most prolific bigot I've encountered on ATS in the 8 years I've been reading this site followed by people being reasonable (mostly) in their responses only to be "insulted" again. Yes, I insulted a poster previously in this thread and immediately apologized for the misunderstanding that was my fault. Decent people do that, CV.

This kind of BS is the reason I have less than a thousand posts in 7 years. If anyone were spewing this kind of hate with any backing but christian, this thread would have been closed and the christian extremist up there's posts been deleted. We're always reminded of "manners and decorum" yet this seems to not apply to the christian hate speech.

Either way, I give up. There's no reasoning with someone this deeply troubled and disgustingly misinformed. Living a life of hate doesn't get you into the "heaven" you so desperately need to believe in. As a matter of fact, I do believe that the "Jesus" character from your perverse version of Grimm's Fairytales taught THE EXACT OPPOSITE. Peace, forgiveness, love, understanding. Not vitriol and ignorance. It's your old testament hateful, spiteful god that was critical of homosexuality, not the prophet claiming to be his son in the new testament. If I'm not mistaken, taking the new testament into consideration is a critical part of claiming to be christian, no?

I genuinely hope there's an afterlife because I'm sure people who don't believe are to end up in a much different place than the ones who pervert their own book to fit their agenda. And with that, I'm done with this thread.

I honestly feel conservative Christians often get a bad rap. At street level, I've found them to contradict their public image. Much less closed-minded, and much more compassionate and understanding.

But my conservative Christian brothers and sister in this thread really let me down.

First, they failed to address the issue of the thread. Though one of their own started it. I made several attempts to get things back on track, giving links to excerpts of the films, reminding them of the actual case. Almost none of them returned to the subject.

They posted irrelevant links, made imaginary claims, created straw man arguments. And, generally, became the worst caricatures of conservative Christians you'd ever want to see.

Religion is a very personal choice. And one that should be respected. But most of the Christians in this thread did little to earn my respect. Some people on the other side behaved pretty badly as well. I can't deny that.

All in all, a very disappointing thread on a subject that requires discussion.

This poster has been banned but I'm going to address this anyways ...

originally posted by: Christian Voice
If they are born gay do you expect me to believe he or she held their desires at bay for 18 years ?

Once they hit puberty - most know they are homosexual
When Do Homosexuals Realize they are Gay?
Answers ranged from age 8 through early teen years. When puberty starts kicking in.

More on the genetic and biological factors ...
Huffington Post

A 1992 study showed that the anterior commissure, a smaller connection between the brain’s two hemispheres, is larger in homosexual men than in straight men.

Science Magazine - A difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men

The anterior hypothalamus of the brain participates in the regulation of male-typical sexual behavior. The volumes of four cell groups in this region [interstitial nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH) 1, 2, 3, and 4] were measured in postmortem tissue from three subject groups: women, men who were presumed to be heterosexual, and homosexual men. No differences were found between the groups in the volumes of INAH 1, 2, or 4. As has been reported previously, INAH 3 was more than twice as large in the heterosexual men as in the women. It was also, however, more than twice as large in the heterosexual men as in the homosexual men. This finding indicates that INAH is dimorphic with sexual orientation, at least in men, and suggests that sexual orientation has a biological substrate.

PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects

Cerebral responses to putative pheromones and objects of sexual attraction were recently found to differ between homo- and heterosexual subjects. Although this observation may merely mirror perceptional differences, it raises the intriguing question as to whether certain sexually dimorphic features in the brain may differ between individuals of the same sex but different sexual orientation. We addressed this issue by studying hemispheric asymmetry and functional connectivity, two parameters that in previous publications have shown specific sex differences. Ninety subjects [25 heterosexual men (HeM) and women (HeW), and 20 homosexual men (HoM) and women (HoW)] were investigated with magnetic resonance volumetry of cerebral and cerebellar hemispheres. Fifty of them also participated in PET measurements of cerebral blood flow, used for analyses of functional connections from the right and left amygdalae. HeM and HoW showed a rightward cerebral asymmetry, whereas volumes of the cerebral hemispheres were symmetrical in HoM and HeW. No cerebellar asymmetries were found. Homosexual subjects also showed sex-atypical amygdala connections. In HoM, as in HeW, the connections were more widespread from the left amygdala; in HoW and HeM, on the other hand, from the right amygdala. Furthermore, in HoM and HeW the connections were primarily displayed with the contralateral amygdala and the anterior cingulate, in HeM and HoW with the caudate, putamen, and the prefrontal cortex. The present study shows sex-atypical cerebral asymmetry and functional connections in homosexual subjects. The results cannot be primarily ascribed to learned effects, and they suggest a linkage to neurobiological entities.

Sexual orientation and the size of the anterior commissure in the human brain

The anterior commissure, a fiber tract that is larger in its midsagittal area in women than in men, was examined in 90 postmortem brains from homosexual men, heterosexual men, and heterosexual women. The midsagittal plane of the anterior commissure in homosexual men was 18% larger than in heterosexual women and 34% larger than in heterosexual men. This anatomical difference, which correlates with gender and sexual orientation, may, in part, underlie differences in cognitive function and cerebral lateralization among homosexual men, heterosexual men, and heterosexual women. Moreover, this finding of a difference in a structure not known to be related to reproductive functions supports the hypothesis that factors operating early in development differentiate sexually dimorphic structures and functions of the brain, including the anterior commissure and sexual orientation, in a global fashion.

Stress during pregnancy results in higher numbers of homosexual births.
Brain Development and Sexual Orientation

Homosexuality = natural sexual variant in different animal species, including humans.

[snip]?

Rather than venturing off into these other areas. I wish this thread had stayed on topic.

I would like to have known if anyone defended the harassment of a lesbian student by faculty and staff. And, if not, what would their remedy have been? I thought the district got off rather easy.

Also, it's clear many in this thread don't understand how school curriculum is chosen. There are many areas in our society where the average citizen doesn't have much of voice. But school curriculum is not one of them.

You don't have to cry in the wilderness. Or post screeds on an Internet forum. You can actually have an impact in the real world.

It would have been nice to have had more discussion on that part of the equation.

a reply to: Moresby

You can actually have an impact in the real world.

And I have pointed that out, only to get smacked down anyway through the years.

I have bent over backwards to appease atheist at times.

Recently starting a failed topic, as usual.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Moresby

You can actually have an impact in the real world.

And I have pointed that out, only to get smacked down anyway through the years.

I have bent over backwards to appease atheist at times.

Recently starting a failed topic, as usual.

You have to remember many discovered atheism five seconds ago. And have to show off.

But this wasn't a thread about Christianity or Atheism. Or even homosexuality.

It was about a how a school district in California dealt with the fact that the faculty and staff (teachers!) at one of their schools was harassing a Lesbian student.

a reply to: Moresby

I don't think anyone deserves that kind of treatment, obviously.

lol@ five seconds ago.

Does the air seem fresher in here for some reason, or is it just me?

I want to say that I understand, completely, that parents have concerns about what their kids are exposed to in school.

In this particular case, the ACLU's lawsuit forced the school district to take extraordinary measures to try to make the educational environment as safe and as conducive to learning as possible. This decision to provide enhanced programs that addressed bullying was imposed on the school district at large and even included programs for the kindergarteners and first graders. Now, I know that kids (having been one a long time ago myself) are interested and active physically far sooner than their parents are often comfortable with, but, as would anyone in society, I don't want to see a 5 year old exposed to confusing material that they have no basis for understanding. So, I hear you folks in the thread that are making that point, and nothing I've said here takes a thing away from your protecting your kids, and if it does point it out and I'll apologize for it.

BUT.

It is a fact that those 5 year olds already have the characteristics that will make them straight, gay, lesbian,bisexual and trans*. Science has clearly shown that those characteristics are formed at before birth and are already set in the earliest stages of development. We are who we are.

It is never too early, in my opinion, to discuss the realities that people are different, and that differences don't make it okay to act badly toward them. This effort in CA was not only addressing sexual orientation, but also, race, religion, national origin, etc.

Isolating kids from the world that they will someday have to live and work in may be understandable, but it is not, in the long run, the most productive thing to support for the children. They need to learn to live and work with each other.

If it wasn't "gay propaganda" than they would have at least touched on religious intolerance. Just sayin'.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Does the air seem fresher in here for some reason, or is it just me?

I want to say that I understand, completely, that parents have concerns about what their kids are exposed to in school.

In this particular case, the ACLU's lawsuit forced the school district to take extraordinary measures to try to make the educational environment as safe and as conducive to learning as possible.

This is not the ACLU's fault. There was a school in the district which allowed its faculty and staff to harass a lesbian girl. That's why there was an issue at all. And the changes in the curriculum were a settlement the district made with the girl rather than taking the mater to court. Laws had been broken, so the girl would have been well within her right to do that. But she didn't. She felt a five-year change in training and curriculum was enough.

I don't want to see a 5 year old exposed to confusing material that they have no basis for understanding.

Five year-olds were not exposed to material they couldn't understand. The material merely focuses on various types of families that exist. It talks of households with two parents, interracial parents, single parents, adoptive parents, guardians, and, yes, gay parents. This is the elementary school material not specifically for kindergarteners. So I don't even know if any actual five-year-olds saw it.

Finally, the settlement was a five year agreement reached in May of 2009. So it has now lapsed. If the Vallejo City Unified School District still is using this material it's now by their own choice.

Given the gross and illegal discrimination practiced in the district, a five year program featuring some films and a bit of faculty training seems a very mild remedy.

a reply to: Magnivea

So itchy.