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originally posted by: AlienView
So Ectoplasm8 you as usual demand solid physical evidence as proof - OK it is not yet available. BUT if one accepts the concepts of Quantum Mechanics and what it tells us the existence of parallel universes is not speculative but is fact and only a fool would rule out other intelligences in such a universe - And the importance of the observer still must be part of the observation. In this world observations of alien life when received from people who are judged to be sane and not delusional is significant. The fact that you can not disprove observations judged to be valid by external analysis is all that is necessary for us for now to debunk the debunker.
originally posted by: AlienView
a reply to: uncommitted
Wrong. I only made one assumption, that being that what I wrote would be understood - apparently that is often not true.
My quote on Quantum Mechanics is just that, a quote by leading physicists who believe that parallel universes are fact
- this is science not science fiction
Ectoplasm8 is a 'hard-line debunkeer' and is so hard line in his views so as to render them of little value.
I do have another problem though, how would we be able to detect intelligent life in another dimension/universe if so-called intelligent life possessed by Man is not intelligent enough to do so? Do insects and most animalsl perceive the higher level of intelligence possessed by the Humans that rule their environment?
Could a dense headed debunker that you might meet on a forum such as this one really accept the existence of alien intelligences even if he were so confronted directly? I know they say they would - I doubt it. In fact one of the reasons for the belief in the 'mythos' surrounding the crash at Roswell, NM and the the supposed existence of alien beings is that how many would believe that what was shown to them was really an alien entity? They would claim hoax, or some unknown animal species - but never would they accept the existence of alien life.
That happened to me also. I even posted a comment about the circumstance of how John Mack died(hit and run as Mack was crossing street, driver later dies in a car crash years later). I entered into a dialogue with a skeptic when he stated that drunk driving was the culprit. I replied they used that same argument for the death of Princess Diana. Someone posted a reply to me and I was going to answer back to him, but when I tried to reply, I got "404 page not found". I don't think the mods would delete the article if the thread was going off topic. I thought ATS encouraged such dialogue. I am going to give the mods the benefit of the doubt on this matter. I suspect that the article was taken down due to poor traffic on subject. Also, ATS could face copyright infringement on said movie production.
originally posted by: Uggielicious
a reply to: AlienView
I'm not trying to hijack your thread but I'm curious as to what happened to the following thread:
JOHN MACK - A major motion picture., page 1 - Above Top Secret
Such experiences leave amazed. John E. Mack A respected psychiatrist, Pulitzer Prize Winner and Harvard Professor undermines his entire ...
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1014014/pg1
It diasappeared and when one searches it is found but when you click on it the page that comes up is a:
404 PAGE NOT FOUND!
Anyone have a clue?
"Dense-headed" in that I want verifiable real physical evidence that we are being visited by alien beings from a planet light years away... Rather than making this occurrence one that's trite and simple believing fantastical stories and weak types of evidence? Okay, I'll happily take "dense-headed".
It's funny how affected and defensive some believers are by opposing views.
What exactly would constitute undeniable evidence of a "real alien entity" in your eyes? A story of one? A photograph? A video? No requirement whatsoever of the object being placed in an unbiased setting and scientifically studied to show without a doubt it's not ours?
NOVA: Let's talk about your own personal evolution from perhaps skepticism to belief ...
MACK: When I first encountered this phenomenon, or particularly even before I had actually seen the people themselves, I had very little place in my mind to take this seriously. I, like most of us, were raised to believe that if we were going to discover other intelligence, we'd do it through radio waves or through signals or something of that kind.
Quote: I came very reluctantly to the conclusion that this was a true mystery
The idea that we could be reached by some other kind of being, creature, intelligence that could actually enter our world and have physical effects as well as emotional effects, was simply not part of the world view that I had been raised in. So that I came very reluctantly to the conclusion that this was a true mystery. In other words, that I—I did everything I could to rule out other sources, or sexual abuse. Some of these people are abused. But they're able to tell, distinguish clearly the abduction trauma from other forms of abuse. Some forms of psychosis or people making up stories—I could reject that on the basis that there was no gain in this for the vast majority of these people.
.... I've now worked with over a hundred experiencers intensively. Which involves an initial two-hour or so screening interview before I do anything else. And in case after case after case, I've been impressed with the consistency of the story, the sincerity with which people tell their stories, the power of feelings connected with this, the self-doubt—all the appropriate responses that these people have to their experiences.
NOVA: So tell us, please, how literally you intend people to take this? Are you suggesting people are really being snatched from their beds by aliens and experiments on board a spaceship?
MACK: Just how literally to take this, is one of the most interesting and complex aspects of this. And I want to walk through that as clearly as I can. There are aspects of this which I believe we are justified in taking quite literally. That is, UFOs are in fact observed, filmed on camera at the same time that people are having their abduction experiences.
People, in fact, have been observed to be missing at the time that they are reporting their abduction experiences. They return from their experiences with cuts, ulcers on their bodies, triangular lesions, which follow the distribution of the experiences that they recover, of what was done to them in the craft by the surgical-like activity of these beings.
All of that has a literal physical aspect and is experienced and reported with appropriate feeling, by the abductees, with or without hypnosis or a relaxation exercise.
....There is a—I believe, a gradation of experiences and that go from the most literal physical kinds of hurts, wounds, person removed, spacecraft that can be photographed, to experiences which are more psychological, spiritual, involve the extension of consciousness. The difficulty for our society and for our mentality is, we have a kind of either/or mentality. It's either, literally physical; or it's in the spiritual other realm, the unseen realm. What we seem to have no place for—or we have lost the place for—are phenomena that can begin in the unseen realm, and cross over and manifest and show up in our literal physical world.
So the simple answer would be: Yes, it's both. It's both literally, physically happening to a degree; and it's also some kind of psychological, spiritual experience occurring and originating perhaps in another dimension. And so the phenomenon stretches us, or it asks us to stretch to open to realities that are not simply the literal physical world, but to extend to the possibility that there are other unseen realities from which our consciousness, our, if you will, learning processes over the past several hundred years have closed us off.
........."
originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
For example, the "Black Knight satellite" has been shown (mainly by James Oberg) to be a trunnion pin cover that got loose during a spacewalk. We have transcripts from the astronauts during the walk saying so. We have videos of what the cover looks like. We have video of the cover actually floating away. We have photographic comparisons of the cover and the "satellite" which show it is exactly the same thing. Even so, people will still hold on to this being something alien.
originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: MarrsAttax
FINAL EVENTS SECRET GOVERNMENT DEMONIC UFOS AND AFTERLIFE
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1400863862&sr=1-4&keywords= nick+redfern
= = =
I'm keenly interested in your responses to it . . . privately or on a public thread.
imho, he does a top flight job of collecting the narratives and interviews together.
originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: EnPassant
Agreed.
And, that was an assumption I held for a number of years . . . maybe a decade or 2.
I've now accepted the evidence that . . . as Jacques Vallee asserts . . . they are evil spiritual entities from a spiritual DIMENSION . . . vs distant planets in our multiverse.
originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: EnPassant
Agreed.
And, that was an assumption I held for a number of years . . . maybe a decade or 2.
I've now accepted the evidence that . . . as Jacques Vallee asserts . . . they are evil spiritual entities from a spiritual DIMENSION . . . vs distant planets in our multiverse.