John Mack and Alien Disclosure

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posted on May, 25 2014 @ 11:39 PM
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The question of alien disclosure comes up often on this forum - When will it occur? Some think that in some ways it has already occurred - the evidence though is still circumstantial. And when it comes to circumstantial evidence some of the most interesting is the findings of Harvard psychiatrist, writer, and professor at Harvard Medical School John Mack - a man who risked his reputation and career by going from skeptic to believer - His analysis of so called abductees convinced him that the the abductees were neither lying or delusional - His analysis convinced him that many of the abductees had actually experienced an alien abduction and had been subjected to manipulation and experimentation by entities not of this world, or at least not of the paradigm of the normal reality of this world.

A woman who has studied his life Denise David Williams is trying to make a movie on his life - actually many years ago there was an interesting TV movie made on his life and how he was treated, or mistreated, by his peers at Harvard. Now the question for today ATS alien fans is what do you think of John Mack and his famous alien abduction book titled: "Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens" by John E. Mack - Was John Mack himself delusional - Or is he a pioneer in the field who was giving us disclosure of the truth




posted on May, 26 2014 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: AlienView

I believe that Mack reached the correct conclusion about some abductees telling the truth, but he put too much faith in the abductors and always tried to put a spiritual spin on their activities. He couldn't seem to accept the fact that they might be doing something sinister and that's why they are keeping hidden.

The following debate really helps to understand his take on the phenomena:


Skip to about 25:00 to get to the actual debate.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: AlienView

It was demonstrated in a fierce idiotic academic witch hunt

that Mack was

--absolutely sane
--absolutely professional
--absolutely solid in his research methodologies
--absolutely full of integrity toward his research subjects; toward the topic and regarding his position at Harvard.

IT WAS THE JERKS ON THE OTHER SIDE who lacked integrity; who were off the wall; who treated Dr Mack irresponsibly and underhandedly.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder



I believe that Mack reached the correct conclusion about some abductees telling the truth, but he put too much faith in the abductors and always tried to put a spiritual spin on their activities. He couldn't seem to accept the fact that they might be doing something sinister and that's why they are keeping hidden.


The question for me . . . was Dr Mack knowingly complicit in supporting the globalist party line . . .

or

was he an unwitting ignorant stooge of such forces?

I'm inclined to think it was the latter but that's just my own bias and hunch about him in the situation.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 01:01 AM
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a reply to: BO XIAN

I think he just liked to remain hopeful and always see the best in abduction events, because some people do learn a lot from it and do have spiritual breakthroughs by being abducted. Even I don't want to jump to conclusions and say they are doing something "sinister", I don't really know, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking they aren't possibly a threat to us. Personally I think David Jacobs has the best take on the abduction phenomena, he makes a lot of logical sense to me:




posted on May, 26 2014 @ 01:53 AM
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Now back in 1994 when a committee at Harvard investigated Mack a doctor "Budd" Relman, M.D. made this statement:


" According to Daniel Sheehan, Mack's attorney, the committee's draft report “finds that it is professionally irresponsible for any academic, scholar or practicing psychiatrist to give any credence whatsoever to any personal report of a direct personal contact between a human being and an Extraterrestrial Being until after the person...has been subjected to every possible available battery of standard psychological tests which might conceivably explain the report as the product of some known form of clinical psychosis....To communicate, in any way whatsoever, to a person who has reported a ‘close encounter’ with an Extraterrestrial life form that this experience might well have been real...is professionally irresponsible.”

If you follow that line of thinking could not the same be said to any witness to any crime or event in a court of law? Another words why should we accept anyones testimony in a trial unless he "has been subjected to every possible available battery of standard psychological tests which might conceivably explain the report as the product of some known form of clinical psychosis" - but you see the standard is only for alleged alien contact where the preconceived notion that it is impossible must be accepted - Why should this be the case? After many, many years of recorded information of strange and unusual phenomena, and not just alien phenomena, why should the sanity of witnesses of the strange be questioned? Yes, there are thousands of witnesse to red rain and fish falling from the sky - Are they all insane? Its almost like 'they' want your mind to 'filter-out' paradigms of reality that can not be easily explained. Mack said science and psychology should not be an 'inquistion', it should be an open and genuine enquiry until the truth is known! Some might see Mack as the Gallileo of psychology - And if the alien phenomean is proven, one of the great pioneers of field.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 02:00 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Trouble is . . .

HE CONTACTED Every last one of the famous researchers


It has become obvious, to me, that they are essentially

being WHOLESALE DISINGENUOUS on a very key issue . . .

Joe Jordan . . . see

www.alienresistance.org...

He RESEARCHED VERY METICULOUSLY at a given point in time . . . he


PERSONALLY CONTACTED 100% OF ALL THE BETTER KNOWN EXPERTS IN THE FIELD.

He asked EACH ONE OF THEM

IF

they had ever had any cases where they had reported to them that the application, injunction, declaration of the Name of "Jesus," the Blood of Jesus applied in a spiritual warfare manner . . .

HAD

1. Halted the abduction experience

2. Prevented further such abductions.

virtually all, if not EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM had such cases.

ALL the famous experts refused to go on record about such facts--saying that their "credibility" would suffer too much, if they did.

So, essentially, we have the world's experts holding their punches about THE TRUTH for fear of what others might think of them stating THE TRUTH.

Impressive integrity! NOT.

I personally have talked to a number of such experts face to face. I've tried to get most of them to talk about such realities. They refuse totally or dodge with some shallow glib dodging, marsh-mellow sort of nothing statement.

That includes:

Timothy Good
Stanton Friedman
Linda Moulton Howe
Paola Harris

Japan's best expert who's name I'm forgetting.

Travis Walton came the closest to being candid about the evil inherent in the experience he underwent.

Timothy Good probably tried to be somewhat candid and yet put the best party-line face on it . . . mostly being vague and non-committal.

Stanton Friedman seems to mostly spew the party line totally without apology--pretending to back it up with logic and his usual style.

Linda Moulton Howe seemed cagey . . . kind of to "take refuge" in the party line and just avoid getting into any riskier aspects beyond the usual 'new age' blather.

Paola Harris . . . seems dedicated to the Vatican party line . . . She tries to insist that she has no opinions and just lets the evidence and her sources speak for themselves. However, it became clear to me after repeated tries that she has bought into at least a rough outline of the Vatican party line.

Small wonder. She used to lunch routinely with Balducci.


At the times I talked with each such . . . I did NOT REALIZE how much they KNEW but were being disingenuous about.

edit on 26/5/2014 by BO XIAN because: clarity



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 02:10 AM
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a reply to: BO XIAN

Lol I knew this is where you were headed... and you can expect the same evasive responses from me, and it's not because I'm being disingenuous about anything, it's because turning this into something religious is absolutely ridiculous in my mind. The whole aliens are demons topic just makes me roll my eyes and stop listening, and I imagine that the vast majority of abduction researchers feel the same way and that's why they react the way they do.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Which conceivably might be a viable option

UNLESS

it happens to be TRUE.

THEN where will that leave you?


Folks would be wise, in the interest of their own self-preservation to Read Nick Redfern's book.

His research was exhaustive.

I personally--even though I've believed the truth for a few decades . . .

EVEN I WAS UTTERLY SHOCKED at HOW MANY BIG NAMES in the early years of the phenomena had a VERY CURIOUS AND DIRECT CONNECTION TO THE OCCULT.

That included KENNETH ARNOLD.
It included the physicists heavily involved with the development of the atom bomb; rocketry etc.
It included high level ranking military and political figures.

I was shocked how many of them were close or frequent associates of

ALISTER CROWLEY

I was shocked how many of them lived in rather close proximity to one another.

I was shocked how many of them attended . . . the questionable parties, goings on, seances, orgies, incantations etc.

WISHFUL THINKING is a poor foundation for truth.

It is certainly no good at offering safety, security, decisive authority etc. in dealing with strange goings on.
edit on 26/5/2014 by BO XIAN because: added



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 02:21 AM
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a reply to: BO XIAN


UNLESS

it happens to be TRUE.

Then where will you be?

I guess I will be up s#!t creek without a paddle. lol.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 02:21 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Jacques Vallee spent 10 years of hard headed scientific research into the whole topic.

He came away asserting that the critters are evil spiritual entities coming from a spiritual DIMENSION.

Ignore the spiritual, if you wish.

I've just never found ignoring key critical issues of reality to be a very wise strategy.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 02:33 AM
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a reply to: BO XIAN


He came away asserting that the critters are evil spiritual entities coming from a spiritual DIMENSION.

Well for a start I don't like to generalize the issue and see everything as "good" and "evil", the universe and the life in it isn't black and white like that. But it's important to remember that many abductees feel like the abductors were very loving and caring beings who fill them will good feelings and often befriend them. They never really do anything "evil" to the abductees besides kidnapping them and conducting weird experiments on them. It's obvious that they are doing some type of research, and they are manipulating our human religious tendencies to portray themselves as angelic beings in order to make the abductees feel more secure in their presence.
edit on 26/5/2014 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 02:37 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder



It's obvious that they are doing some type of research, and they are manipulating our human religious tendencies to portray themselves as angelic beings in order to make the abductors feel more secure in their presence.


To me . . . the OBVIOUS part is that they are . . .

MANIPULATING WHOLESALE

VERY SUCCESSFULLY.

= = =

BTW, I do NOT consider forcable RAPE; forced sperm and egg taking; forced implantations;

human mutilations exactly like cattle mutilations WITHOUT ANY ANESTHETIC . . .

to be FRIENDLY, BENIGN, KIND, etc.

Yes, THEY DO DEMONSTRATE an incredible capacity to

turn warm-fuzzy feelings on the part of victims toward them--to turn such feelings on and off like or literally with a switch.

Impressive.

Doesn't mean they are warm and fuzzy critters out for our good . . . not by a long shot.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: BO XIAN


He came away asserting that the critters are evil spiritual entities coming from a spiritual DIMENSION.

Well for a start I don't like to generalize the issue and see everything as "good" and "evil", the universe and the life in it isn't black and white like that. But it's important to remember that many abductees feel like the abductors were very loving and caring beings who fill them will good feelings and often befriend them. They never really do anything "evil" to the abductees besides kidnapping them and conducting weird experiments on them. It's obvious that they are doing some type of research, and they are manipulating our human religious tendencies to portray themselves as angelic beings in order to make the abductees feel more secure in their presence.


Yes, {and here I agree with what BO XIAN just said} but until proven otherwise the worst must be considered as possible. What about the cattle mutilations where precise surgical procedures are performed and of course all the people who diappear without a trace? What if our 'alien friends' are explorers looking for a new food supply and the apparent sexual/genetic experimentation is just that an attempt to improve genealogy to suit their need for a new food supply? I know that sounds like an old 50s sci-fi horror movie but until these entities disclose themselves openly and stop experimenting on humans and/or animals without their permission, the worst case must be considered as possible.









edit on 26-5-2014 by AlienView because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 03:25 AM
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a reply to: BO XIAN


Doesn't mean they are warm and fuzzy critters out for our good . . . not by a long shot.

Obviously that's not what I was getting at, I was saying that they clearly have an advanced understanding of human psychology and how our mind works, which indicates that they are highly intelligent and advanced beings. They use our religious tendencies against us and as a result many people come out of the experience feeling as though there was something religious about it, but that is simply a charade to hide the fact that they're just physical intelligent life forms conducting some sort of experiment.
edit on 26/5/2014 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 06:13 AM
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a reply to: AlienView



a man who risked his reputation and career by going from skeptic to believer - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I don't believe he risked his 'career' by writing books on abductions; that's when he started his very lucrative career as an author.
If you follow the money, it gives you a pretty clear idea of why someone turns from skeptic to believer.....



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 07:23 AM
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I tend to side with Valee, if you were an extra dimensional entity and found a new food source (emotional/spiritual/soul energy) how would you go about streamlining the process of procuring this food? Take into account that it may be difficult to exist in another dimension, especially if it was a lower, more physical one.

You would first do it by proxy (greys), manipulate genes for maximum "bang for your buck" foodstuffs, create a system of control (religion etc), look at a way of easier access to the food source (hybridization), breed out strengths, maximize weaknesses.

Look at what we have done to cows and sheep over the centuries, exactly the same as the above. Imagine what you could so with better technology that isn't so embedded within this dimension.

I'm a big believer that what you what to see and what you are conditioned to see has an effect on what you actually see.
Factor in that possibly in these dimensions that the entities come from emotions are a tangible, usable thing, they would have a monopoly over its effects (on us) and a high degree of control.

I don't believe all are bad, I just think it's like giant extraterrestrial/dimensional keiretsu within "reality".
edit on 26-5-2014 by litmus1212 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 08:58 AM
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IT WAS THE JERKS ON THE OTHER SIDE who lacked integrity; who were off the wall; who treated Dr Mack irresponsibly and underhandedly. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


This is well said because this is what we see happen to virtually every person in the ufo field. Almost instantaneously dealt with underhandedly just like the whole subject is.



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: BO XIAN


the Blood of Jesus applied in a spiritual warfare manner

Shoot it from water-pistols? Paintball people with it?

Spray it from high-flying aircraft? Slip it into the water supply?



posted on May, 26 2014 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: AlienView
Now back in 1994 when a committee at Harvard investigated Mack a doctor "Budd" Relman, M.D. made this statement:


" According to Daniel Sheehan, Mack's attorney, the committee's draft report “finds that it is professionally irresponsible for any academic, scholar or practicing psychiatrist to give any credence whatsoever to any personal report of a direct personal contact between a human being and an Extraterrestrial Being until after the person...has been subjected to every possible available battery of standard psychological tests which might conceivably explain the report as the product of some known form of clinical psychosis....To communicate, in any way whatsoever, to a person who has reported a ‘close encounter’ with an Extraterrestrial life form that this experience might well have been real...is professionally irresponsible.”

If you follow that line of thinking could not the same be said to any witness to any crime or event in a court of law? Another words why should we accept anyones testimony in a trial unless he "has been subjected to every possible available battery of standard psychological tests which might conceivably explain the report as the product of some known form of clinical psychosis" - but you see the standard is only for alleged alien contact where the preconceived notion that it is impossible must be accepted - Why should this be the case?


It's quite straightforward. If a witness says the victim was shot with a pistol, we all know pistols exist and as part of the trial a pistol may be produced. We have no evidence that either ET has been to this planet, or that they abduct people so don't you think it's quite right that the bar would be significantly higher?





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