Michael Moore comments on the latest American shooting.

a reply to: Gianfar
It is not about losing rights, but it is valid questions that should be answered. If a state and a city, that have some of the toughest gun control laws, where you have to go through the immense amount of paperwork, red tape and other hoops to legally possess a firearm, then how did this kid manage to get ahold of one?

This if anything should show that the current laws that are on the books are not working, that if a person is wanting to break the law, they are going to break the law and get around such no matter what.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

But if all guns are banned, we'd not have this problem.

(according to those on the leftish spectrum)

a reply to: manna2

We stopped teaching the individual in public schools and went to a rote training model that we got from the Soviet Union,Feminism,the KGB "Hippy" ops took off and Monsanto began the "GREAT CHEMICAL EXPERIMENT",the CIA started Monarch and '___' , they had the funky green ecology flag and they tried to move to metric,that was the 60s- 70s. Coincidentally THAT is when things in the US changed,no more "Yes sir or Ma'am" if it feels good DO IT,and (this was a HUGE slam to the ladies) Twiggy led the fashion world and hollywood to twigs while real voluptuous females became fat or vulgar,though biology still appreciates them androgynous is the word of the day today in men and women. Parenting became a loss in the 80s and by the 90s the urban culture uplifted misogynist criminal poetry with a simplistic percussive Rhythm ment to be, as we head bangers were "in your face"and the popular degradation of women in general. So I am curious about what does anyone expect in a country with 300 million in it when a few hundred die by maniacs

a reply to: beezzer


I'm a moderate Republican who feels that people should have all the rights and freedoms they want. I also believe that freedom and rights are "privileges" to be used prudently, and that your individual rights do not trump the security and social well-being of an entire nation.

When basically anyone can obtain a deadly weapon, walk into a school and slaughter children, its time to make laws that hold people's feet to the fire.

If your brother, neighbor or anyone else can casually reach for an unsecured weapon in the home and commit a felony crime, you are the one who should go to prison and loose your right to own a gun for at least five years.

That would shut down the gun control nuts who threaten your so called god-given rights.

The worst nut cases however are those banjo playing inbreeds who think the white race was chosen by god to impose the consequences of rights on everyone else.

originally posted by: Gianfar
a reply to: beezzer


I'm a moderate Republican who feels that people should have all the rights and freedoms they want. I also believe that freedom and rights are "privileges" to be used prudently, and that your individual rights do not trump the security and social well-being of an entire nation.

You really should look up the difference between "rights" and "privileges".

Really.

When basically anyone can obtain a deadly weapon, walk into a school and slaughter children, its time to make laws that hold people's feet to the fire.

There are already laws that punish those who do that.

Freedom is a double-edged sword.

If your brother, neighbor or anyone else can casually reach for an unsecured weapon in the home and commit a felony crime, you are the one who should go to prison and loose your right to own a gun for at least five years.

Meh. Then run for king of America and change the laws.

That would shut down the gun control nuts who threaten your so called god-given rights.

Really? You went there? After I gave you an internet hug even!

The worst nut cases however are those banjo playing inbreeds who think the white race was chosen by god to impose the consequences of rights on everyone else.

Good thing I'm not white and get all offended by that.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: Gianfar
It is not about losing rights, but it is valid questions that should be answered. If a state and a city, that have some of the toughest gun control laws, where you have to go through the immense amount of paperwork, red tape and other hoops to legally possess a firearm, then how did this kid manage to get ahold of one?

This if anything should show that the current laws that are on the books are not working, that if a person is wanting to break the law, they are going to break the law and get around such no matter what.

I'm against gun control due to its sweeping, oppressive nature. Strict gun laws that have sweeping implications (i.e. treats everyone like a criminal) will have limited effects, since there are literally millions of unregistered, untraceable weapons on the streets and licensed dealers willing to sell to anyone. All of the paperwork and investigations may limit people with questionable histories. There are so many loopholes if someone really wants illicit weapons.

According to the FBI the vast majority of guns used for crime come from licensed dealers selling over the counter, straw-man purchases or friends and relatives purchasing or giving guns to their relatives. Sting operations on dealers, tough laws that identify and incarcerate illicit transactions by straw-men (including friends and relatives) would account for a large portion of illicit gun transactions.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Gianfar
a reply to: beezzer


I'm a moderate Republican who feels that people should have all the rights and freedoms they want. I also believe that freedom and rights are "privileges" to be used prudently, and that your individual rights do not trump the security and social well-being of an entire nation.

You really should look up the difference between "rights" and "privileges".


Really.

When basically anyone can obtain a deadly weapon, walk into a school and slaughter children, its time to make laws that hold people's feet to the fire.

There are already laws that punish those who do that.

Freedom is a double-edged sword.

If your brother, neighbor or anyone else can casually reach for an unsecured weapon in the home and commit a felony crime, you are the one who should go to prison and loose your right to own a gun for at least five years.

Meh. Then run for king of America and change the laws.

That would shut down the gun control nuts who threaten your so called god-given rights.

Really? You went there? After I gave you an internet hug even!

The worst nut cases however are those banjo playing inbreeds who think the white race was chosen by god to impose the consequences of rights on everyone else.

Good thing I'm not white and get all offended by that.

BTW, I'm laughing. Your argument consists of semantics that offer no specifics or logical bearing on the moral issues. Sorry, but not impressed.

a reply to: LarryLove

You edit was pointless...it was a figurative statement, not a scientific one.
Since that was your only correction, you obviously have no point to make whatsoever.
Access to firearms does not make a culture violent.
Since you have been bleating on about this then you should already know that by now, right.
It's called freedom and you can't run around claiming your free by taking away the freedom of others whether you think it's right or not.
Isn't that what why most Aussie's (and the world) are cheesed at America in the first place?
Trying to incinuate that Oz is better place while doing the exact same thing does no one a service, sir.
You hate guns.
Don't buy one.
Problem solved.

-Peace-

originally posted by: bellagirl
a reply to: LarryLove


half the trouble with the debate is some just will never get it. they are so irrational and pig headed they can't step away from their view for even one moment to look at the bigger picture.

when i really think seriously about the whole thing and what feeds this irrational defense i keep coming up with fear....is it fear ???.

That's what I am saying!

I guess we agree on something

they fear the government...the world...each other....their rights being taken away...etc etc etc.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me. #irony #logic

Should we all not jealously guard our freedoms as we do our loved ones?
Where has a government ever shown themselves as fair or humane?
The US government already nearly genocided a peoples on more than one occasion, other governments have succeeded.

and please believe me when i say i am not taking a cheap shot. i am just simply trying to get my mind around how this stuff can happen and why in a first world country that is held up as the glowing beacon of all that is good and great cant deal with this carnage.

I agree, car attacks and knife attacks, and hammer attacks and bat attacks, we should ban all inanimate things as if we do, the violence will stop.

a reply to: beezzer
And the problem that those who are on the lets ban guns side tend to forget is that a criminal will not follow the law.

He's the 'do as I say, not as I do' type.

I enjoy his rants, not for content, but rather a drinking game to see how many times spittle forms and at times flies from his lips. Bits of food are just bonus.

LOL.

The reason why America has so many mass shootings is that the American culture has narcissism in its center.

The 'I is above anything else in America.

Therefore, people who don't get enough attention and are most often considered the pariahs of American society find revenge sweet - and they express that revenge by getting a gun and shooting everybody else.

I don't understand how this tragedy is about gun control as California has the most restrictive gun control laws of any state! The question should not be about how to restrict/take away firearms but how to help people such as the shooter to avoid these tragedies in the future.

We should focus on helping those kids who are feeling isolated! Why aren't we looking at that side of the coin? How do we, as a society, help these people stop feeling like outcasts? How do we, as a society, help these people find an outlet for their anger before they choose to kill? How many lives could we save by intervening, in a positive way, in the lives of those who feel isolated and alone?

We can place all the restrictions we want on firearms but that's not going to solve the problem, it will only change the way these people carry out their vengeance.

a reply to: Feltrick

They got trophies as children.

They never were taught to "lose" well because that would have "damaged their self-esteem".

As the kids say, this was an extreme example of "rage quit".

Just a few points to those who have posted in this thread.

Mass murder is human nature. Always has been. Always will be.
Here are a few that didn't use guns.

Arson, Stabbing Rampage in Seoul South Korea : 10/20/2008. 6 people dead, 5 from stabbing. 7 others wounded, 4 seriously. An angry man felt people “looked down on him.”

Anti-police stabbing spree in Shanghai, China: 7/2008. 6 Police Officers stabbed to death, 4 wounded. 28 year old man angry at police attacked a police station with a knife.

Akihabara Massacre, Chiyoda City, Tokyo, Japan: 6/8/2008. 7 people killed (3 struck by car, 4 by stabbing), many more injured. Man slammed into a crowd with his car, then jumped out and began stabbing people to death.

18 year old slashes 4 to death in Sitka, Alaska, US: 3/25/2008. 4 people killed. 18 year old (old enough to purchase a rifle over the counter) kills 4 people, related to him, with a 5 inch knife.

Stabbing Spree kills 2, Tsuchiura, Japan: 3/23/2008. 2 killed, 7 wounded. Man “just wanted to kill anyone.”

Stabbing spree wounds 41, 6 seriously in Berlin Train Station: 5/26/2006. 41 wounded, 6 seriously. Thankfully no one died in this attack, but not for lack of trying on the part of the drunk 16 year old.

4 killed in stabbing spree in London, UK: 9/2004. 4 killed, 2 wounded. Mentally ill man attacks mostly older people.

6 killed over Xbox dispute in Deltona, Florida, US: 8/6/2004. 6 killed. 4 men (all old enough to legally purchase firearms) bludgeon 6 people to death with baseball bats over purloined Xbox.

Daegu subway fire, Daegu, South Korea: 2/18/2003. 198 killed, 147 injured. A 56 year old unemployed taxi driver, dissatisfied with his medical treatment, sets fire to a crowded train.

Osaka School Massacre, Osaka Japan: 6/8/2001. 8 children dead, 13 other children and 2 teachers wounded. Committed by 37 year old former janitor armed with a kitchen knife.

I don't understand how this tragedy is about gun control as California has the most restrictive gun control laws of any state!

I'll expand on that.
Until recently Chicago did not allow hand guns at all. But the had the dubious distinction of the highest murder rate by handguns in the country.

As a society we are 'OK' with drugies killing each other with hand guns. They are doing what we wish could be done.

And to top things off, here's a doozy from March.

Police said they have captured the final three suspects in a knife attack that killed 29 people and left more than a 140 injured in the city of Kunming on Saturday, according to the state-run New China News Service.

My hunch is that pre 70's most crazy people were in institutions. (Sorry to be blunt) Not walking free if they promised to take their meds.
Plus guns sales were not mainstream hobbies.

None of this happened. It's complete BS and Michael Moore knows this. It's an absurd story with no supporting evidence. Has everyone relinquished their common sense and innate intelligence?

I'm sorry. If you believe this story, you are an idiot.

a reply to: gwynned
I'd like to hear why you think this. thanks.

There's easy solutions to your problems but you are so diametrically opposed to anything that would change your gun laws to something more sensible even if it did affect the 2nd amendment rights of some. Tighter gun registration where violent criminals and the mentally unstable are excluded from ownership and send people away for a very long time for even possessing an illegal weapon and you would cut down gun crime considerably.
But the underling social problems which force people into crime will still exist, your poor are far too poor it's almost like a 3rd world country so you need programs that elevate people out of extreme poverty and it's only socialist programs that will do that and again the U.S is opposed to socialism in any form.

a reply to: masterp

You seem remarkably cognizant of insanity,and thus your opinion ,please don't elaborate.