Former KGB general: Snowden is cooperating with Russian intelligence

originally posted by: Elton
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I believe he did what he felt was correct at the time. It is my understanding that he did try and inform superiors but was discounted so he chose to go public with the information in an attempt to create a national discussion of the apparent overreach of the US intelligence community.

Now he is probably just trying to live with the consequences of that act.

I agree. That's what we were given at the time, and in the rush to vilify just about everything 'Snowden' no one in officialdom seemed bothered to find out if Snowden did, or did not try to draw attention to what was going on.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000


my post about Snowden being equivalent to a Globalist in mindset actually nullifies your accusation of being labeled a traitor....

...Fascinating but very damaging now to my nation's ability to maintain defense, and that...by definition of source..makes the boy a traitor to that same nation. All but the 2 witnesses are present..and I'm SURE that won't be too much trouble if ever he can by physically captured without war with Russia to get him.

Snowden and the NWO Globalists maintain that Nation-States and Patriotism for mostly Luddite, blind-allegiance-fraternity & the Notion of My-Country-Right-or-Wrong is a non-reality when the whole world is at stake (as is the case with Snowden's revelations.... "Treason" (as you present it in your post reply) needs to be redefined, especially with regards to our present ~Oval Office Occupier~


thanks

originally posted by: imwilliam
Just a few things that I think are worth pointing out.

Oleg Kalugin's career with the KGB ended in the early 90's and he's lived in the States since around 1995. So it seems more likely that he's speculating rather than speaking from direct knowledge.

There's also a lot of bad blood between Kalugin and Putin, who had Kalugin tried and convicted of espionage somewhere around 2001 -2002.

I've read Kalugin's book and I think he's a great source of information, but I think he's a source that has to be handled carefully and with some skepticism.

Good point, it seems Oleg has been bought out by the US to say a few things on their behalf..

originally posted by: alomaha
Edward Snowden is not important, what is important is that due to technology and abuse of power, we are slowly becoming orwellian society.

That could well have been the plot...was the game in fact, regardless of security and all the rest. But it's all changed now, and something that needs to be thrashed out here, as no one seems to have mentioned it, my bad if they have. Snowden has stated that his fait accompli with ' The Guardian' newspaper makes them now the custodians of all that information, and we know that is true since 'The Guardian' was turned over extensively, by the police, and there was the reporter/correspondent/friend arrested at the airport. However 'The Guardian' continues to publish their selections, mostly relevant to what Snowden set out to do in the first place.
I would not be surprised if there is a secret contract with copies in the hands of a few over the Snowden, Guardian deal.
That makes Snowden and the Guardian very much in the foreground, and they are the ones that carry the sword of Damocles. There is just no getting away with that.

Coincidence?

Peeling back Snowden's flak jacket, Yossarian recoils in horror as Snowden's intestines spill out and Snowden dies amid the gore.

The encounter radically alters Yossarian's outlook on the war and life. And the parallels with the NSA leaker go beyond the name. Indeed, Edward Snowden's figuratively spilling his guts on domestic spying in the United States could fundamentally alter the wholesale surveillance born of the war on terrorism.

Inquirer Editorial: Snowden's secret resolves catch-22

There should be more an more ppl like this in america alone, from NSA, CIA and rest of the gang. I guess rest of the ppl inside need to know, are too scared to step outside and expose the rotten lvl of corruption going on there, all those new laws how to handle these ppl, might gotta something to do with it too. I havnt followed mr snowden news that much but from this far hes appear like stand up dude who did what he knew is right, we need more this ppl everywhere to stand up! They cant kill all of us if we stand up together!

Also now that hes "save" so to speak, why the heck he cant expose everything right now? If hes for the truth and all, ppl gottta right to know, now would be great time to hit every bit of the dirt to everybody to see!
I hope its not about money thou, sitting on the info thats important for everyone of us just for waiting highest bids, seriously hope this not the case.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
If my country turned it's back on me and provided 0 support, I'd have done the same things.

All these congressmen and senators who rail against the NSA spying program, but in the same breath call Snowden a traitor for telling them what they didn't know and weren't going to be told.

What a sham.

~Tenth

Exactly

If my country sold me out I think Id stick em with the middle finger and go find some new freinds.

Just cause I was born in my country does not make my loyalty unconditional.

originally posted by: Elton
Too bad for the US government. Perhaps whistleblower protection would have been better than declaring him a criminal.

Exactly if they had not hounded him across the world and actually had listerned to him he would not be working for Russia.

Another one to add to the countless blunders of the US goverment.,,,

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Interesting....Snowden is now working for Russian Intelligence. Wonder if this is just another try at goading the US into a fight. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Not interesting at all, anyone with a brain knew he was a spy to begin with. Spy's are often recruited by playing on their ego, they tell him the US is doing bad and he is brave to get all the documents to expose it. He is a hero.

Just a traitor, nothing more. Eventually he will get his comeuppance.

V

We don’t what or who Snowden is, was, and what he has become.

It’s unlikely, but he may have been a Russian agent all along and controlled by them to not only give them massive information but to embarrass the US and make Russia look good.

If Snowden is just what he says he is then what we do know is that the Russians, excuse me for this vulgar vernacular: have him by the balls and therefore he will do anything and everything they tell him to do or he may end up in a supermax prison the rest of his life.

Therefore he will dance to any tune they play

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Elton

Perhaps he should have sought whistle blower status instead of vanishing like a thief in the night to hide within the Chinese Communist controlled Hong Kong administrative zone, then defect outright to Moscow.

What he did, where he ran and HOW he ran are precisely why I and many others have been somewhat undecided...but are fast losing any doubts as to what to call this person. Indeed...He's defined his own title, to be frank about it. In deed and word. He's defined himself, and I'll take him at that.

Well if we are on the subject of traitors then 325 members of congress have just voted to renew the indeffinate dentention without trial.

Last I checked the 6th amendment specificaly forbids that, therefore all congressnen that voted in favour are guilty o treason.

Id be more concerned with the majority of your goverment at home being made up of traitors than one thats the otherside of the world.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I see your point and actually agree but what value in that context can outdated info have, behind the scene's I see two seperate global elite's whom are playing chess with our people's lives for dominance and I was wrong as if that is the case then He should not lie down and die like a dog but stand up like a man, still snowdon was played wrong by the US authority's and they have themselves alone to blame for not offering whistleblower protection as Elton rightly put it.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Elton

Perhaps he should have sought whistle blower status instead of vanishing like a thief in the night to hide within the Chinese Communist controlled Hong Kong administrative zone, then defect outright to Moscow.

Russia Inc. Wrab same as USA Inc. Not many Commie countries left but does have including China Inc., Vietnam Inc. and would be Cuba Inc. except poor old Cuba has the Helms–Burton Act pissing on it, You would almost think that the Helms–Burton Act was from a Communist country.

I agree with tenth and others somewhat, but I also suspect some of this is a 'hit piece' to discredit Snowden to the American public. Ultimately it doesn't matter who Snowden is, the truth is already there.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Elton
Perhaps he should have sought whistle blower status instead of vanishing like a thief in the night to hide within the Chinese Communist controlled Hong Kong administrative zone, then defect outright to Moscow.

Honest question Wrabbit, do you think this would have worked? Do you think it would have been a reasonable decision for Snowden based on what he knew at the time?

It could have come with considerable amounts of danger for him.

I think this could very possibly be propaganda to make the public view Snowden as a traitor.

a reply to: Pinke

Well, how about an honest answer? Yes. I think he could have turned himself into a whistle blower, had he chosen to.

One can look back on the threads right here on ATS to read the predictions at the very start that Snowden would be made to appear like a nobody and average worker at best. Recall in the beginning, he was described by some as outright gifted and by most as highly intelligent and capable in his line of work.

----

Now as much fun as it is to dump on No Such Agency and Christians In Action, the truth of the matter is that they don't recruit or hire idiots. Especially the NSA. They can (and DO) entrap the very best in the fields they want, if they cannot hire them outright from the open market. I don't think CIA enjoys near the "we don't exist" level of secrecy to everything it does to have some of the same ...liberties...that the NSA takes as a routine course, but they still recruit from the top, as much as they can.

The end result is very intelligent and capable people in general and Snowden being a Network Admin both as an in-house employee at the NSA, then CIA...and then working for different contractors for NSA related contracts. Always in the fast lane and high side of the backstage view within US Intelligence.

----

ANYWAY.. All that to say, he could have hooked up with Daniel Ellsberg directly and first come to light that way. He could have hooked up with someone like Ron Paul, or whomever in the power structure is still naive OR principled enough to be half way clean, but still public image enough to give safety. He was in a position to determine that in a very unique way, before choosing. He did none of that, and went to adversary nations. Ones bordering uncomfortably close to a step beyond adversary at this point. Coincidence ? Yup.. No doubt..

He COULD have had the impact of the Pentagon Papers and that COULD have triggered modern Church and Pike Committees.

He could have brought MAJOR change in the U.S....not major risk of outside exploitation and attack.

I think many of us hoped, at first, for that very thing on change.

Nope.. Instead he went over the hill on us all and looked mighty happy in a recent blown-up photo of himself on a riverboat cruise next to the Kremlin. If he was a Russian Officer in his mental frame of loyalty, then a game well played...and I still hope we get our paws on him some day. If he was a Russian spy (there is a difference)...then I hope they tire of him some day and throw him back. The US will be waiting, I have no doubt. However many years it could be.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000

Nope.. Instead he went over the hill on us all and looked mighty happy in a recent blown-up photo of himself on a riverboat cruise next to the Kremlin. If he was a Russian Officer in his mental frame of loyalty, then a game well played...and I still hope we get our paws on him some day. If he was a Russian spy (there is a difference)...then I hope they tire of him some day and throw him back. The US will be waiting, I have no doubt. However many years it could be.

Never mind the pictures Wrab, I would welcome him in my house any day, as I would Ron Paul. The thing is the US is not the only country in the world, nor is Russia or the UK blah blah. What's right in the mind is what's right, not a lump of dirt.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

According to Snowden he spoke to colleagues and ten officials about the matter, and none of them were willing to come forward or do anything about it.

Perspective is very important to judge this person I feel. As a member of the info-sec community who is very switched on it would be hard to trust strangers. A person of average intelligence in the info-sec community can speak in languages that normal people don't understand and often develop a distrust for the average user, business manager, or any of the rest of the uninitiated. It's actually not as unwarranted as it sounds. If you've ever had to explain to someone that a mouse is not a foot pedal then you know how these people feel and their expectations.

Further to this, how often do you personally feel you can speak outside your organization? There are thousands of government organizations around the world doing the wrong thing even at small levels and people don't speak out for years. People will go to their colleagues and discuss it with their supervisor, but nothing happens. Why is that?

So there are two requirements here for Snowden.

1. The person has to trust average users (Ron Paul is not qualified to understand this, and may well have gone directly to the NSA) to believe and understand enough to not go directly to the NSA.

2. Snowden has to go it alone against his organization which most ordinary people never do. If anything they say 'oh well, I reported it, it's not my problem now' or they quit.

I agree there are things he could have done and they have worked in the past, but that doesn't mean what he did was entirely unreasonable. I also don't believe the 'defection' was inevitable. The US government aided this.

What's new?
He most likely was cooperating with Russian intelligence for a very very long time.
When where and how was he recruited are the real questions worth asking.

a reply to: smurfy

You don't imagine Russia is kinder on their leakers and defectors? (in terms of other nations..)

Who was Alexander Litvinenko?

That's what Valdimir Putin does to men who leak in his system and do it from the true back side of the 'curtain'.

He's no more tolerant or remotely humorous toward people in HIS nation who did precisely what Snowden has done in ours. In fact, it's far more cut and dry now, thanks to what he passed in 2012. Quite a doozy, in the context of this conversation, really.

What will ‘treason’ mean?

The expanded definition of treason includes divulging a state secret or “providing consulting or other work to a foreign state or international organization” if an organization works against Russian security interests – something renowned human rights lawyer Yury Schmidt, who sits on ERC Bellona’s board of directors, says lends itself to such broad interpretation that any Russian citizen speaking to a foreigner is in danger of being branded a spy.

The previous version of the same law referred only to ”foreign organizations” and not to international ones, Schmidt noted.

Under the new law, traitors can be punished by up to 20 years in prison.

Source: Bellona

HuffPo was a bit more blunt and direct in their assessment.....

Under the new law, anyone who without authorization possesses information deemed a state secret – whether a politician, a journalist, an environmentalist or a union leader – could potentially be jailed for up to 20 years for espionage.

While the previous law described high treason as espionage or other assistance to a foreign state that damages Russia's external security, the new legislation expands the definition by dropping the word "external." Activities that fall under it include providing help or advice to a foreign state or giving information to an international or foreign organization.

Source: HuffPo

This isn't referring to you, of course, but you'd almost think there is a tendency to suggest Snowden was going to a more open and free nation or some such thing.

He lived his adult life as a United States Intelligence Professional with 7+ years combined inside U.S. Intelligence agencies. Then he moved to the strongest adversary nation we have in the world today for safety from arrest.

The situation isn't as gray to me as it is to many. This seems to be the week I'm disagreeing with the mainstream opinion tho, so I'm getting used to it. lol