The Mysterious Skeleton Lake of the Himalayas

a reply to: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Meh I'm pretty sold on the hailstone theory but still would like more information about the thing since it appears to be a rather freak occurrence and I'm rather surprised there were no other injuries to the bodies. I'd also like to know who the people traveling actually were, where they were going and why. I agree the Yeti thing is going too far but there's nothing wrong with wondering exactly how scientists came to their conclusion. I certainly don't think I'm more intelligent or qualified. This thread was more like asking the eye doctor a question about the exam than outright refuting her results.

I agree with urmenimu in that clearly their hands were restrained or bound due to no broken arms or hands being found. Whoever executed them must've had one very big rounded hammer/mallet or maybe they used large round stones.

ETA: Love your avatar Domo

I experienced a pretty severe hailstorm this spring - close to golf-ball size, and I had to run through it for about 30 feet. Youch.

Let's say you are in a large group of people out in the open and softball-sized ice balls come hurtling down from the sky. There is no place to hide, no shelter from it. What would you do, instinctively? You'd huddle together in fear, probably. You pack yourselves together tightly like fans at a sold-out rock concert, that's what you do. This would certainly explain the injuries being confined to the head and shoulders. As people were killed, they were kept upright by the crowd, perhaps falling over after enough fatal damage had been done. All of the people may not have sustained immediately fatal wound, either, but severe enough that they were able to wander off a little ways and then bleed out or starve.

Just a theory.

a reply to: Domo1

maybe he was just a big man

a reply to: ScientiaFortisDefendit

thanks for shooting off your mouth while adding nothing to the conversation. perhaps in your ignorance you ignored the fact that we have all the evidenciary facts the scientists gathered. should I apologize for being a better whole-systems theoretical analyst than a bunch of narrowly compartmentalized natural scientists who think hail doesn't hit fallen bodies or that people don't hold their arms up when being pelted by hail or rocks from above?

the scientists were also incredibly weak on the social sciences, since their silly and obviously flawed THEORY included little cultural background on the socio-religious climate impacted the local history. This was a cultural event foremost, not a natural sciences event, historically speaking.

the remote location of the lake goes against the scientist's theory of people 'just walking through'. the lake obviously had cosmological significant as great effort was required to arrive there, and there would be no other reason for being there since its o far off the beaten path. I think its obvious prisoners were hiked in a ritually slaughtered exactly as the wounds indicate to prevent revenge and spiritual problems arising from a non-ritualized slaying or releasing the prisoners.

a reply to: skunkape23

the corpses weren't hacked to bits as you say, but were only bludgeoned on the top portion of the body. so a battle scenario is out as well. these were either hostages, or people who offered themselves to be clubbed without a struggle.

a reply to: urmenimu

heres another interesting fact. since the bodies were not formally or ritualistically buried [because they were prisoners], the scientists assumed the ENTIRE party was killed by the hail. no way. they wore heavy leather clothing. There were 300 bodies to hide under. hail does not fall ALL AT ONCE. There would be some seconds to react. The likelihood that MOST of the party would live or be only wounded in a freak hail storm is very good, especially with 300 bodies to hide underneath.

the prisoners were slayed at a specific location for a specific reason. knowing that culture at that historical time [something the scientists seem to have ignored as they did DNA tests], we can assume that they were not an "offering", but were killed in accordance with their beliefs in the Gods and karma to prevent revenge of spirits. why? because there were no trappings of extreme formalized ritual like altars and such. thus, its my theory this was a portal to the underworld manned by a minor demi-god who would receive the souls of these prisoners into the underworld and keep them out of the local's hair.

otherwise, 300 people stood straight up, without falling, with their arms at their sides, while hail killed them all. then it stopped hailing. THEN they all fell down to the ground. you don't have to rebel against the religion of science to know when its right not to worship an ignorant priest.

a reply to: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Yetis (seriously?)

Yes seriously, all things can be considered and no reason not too, this is a 1200 yr old mystery not yesterday.

The researchers concluded that the death was due to a fatal blow on the back of their heads and not due to any wound by weapons, avalanche or landslide. The marks on their skulls and shoulders indicated at being hit by something round, like a cricket ball. The absence of injuries to other body parts indicated that hard round objects, possibly cricket ball sized hail stones or ice balls, fell from above.


Read more at: indiatoday.intoday.in...[/ex ]

edit on 23-5-2014 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: seentoomuch
I agree with urmenimu in that clearly their hands were restrained or bound due to no broken arms or hands being found. Whoever executed them must've had one very big rounded hammer/mallet or maybe they used large round stones.

ETA: Love your avatar Domo

Has a very sacrificial sound to it. The bodies were not all examined, many have been stolen by tourists and they only examined 30, the time period was give or take 30 years. They could have been different groups of people and not all killed there at the same time. Some reports say three groups of type and this one shows two, but hundreds were killed and 30 examined.

All the bodies had died in a similar way, from blows to the head. However, the short deep cracks in the skulls appeared to be the result not of weapons, but rather of something rounded. The bodies also only had wounds on their heads, and shoulders as if the blows had all come from directly above. What had killed them all, porter and pilgrim alike?

www.atlasobscura.com...

Well, lets see, blow to the back of the head changes it slightly, but it does not change the fact that they did not turn, and did not raise their arms to take the blows. Which brings us back to the mystery people being restrained or bound as they were executed via large rounded hammer, a round rock or maybe they were used for target practice by someone that was good with a sling.

if there is going to be debate, get the subject on track.

1] all the blunt trauma injuries on all 300 victims were on head/neck/shoulders.

yetis don't throw rocks at 300 hiding/running people and hit them ONLY on the neck and shoulders. rock slings don't limit wounds to head and shoulders either. ...neither do landslides or rockfall. neither does combat. NEITHER DOES HAIL. period.

answer these questions:

1] what is the most likely position your body would be in during a killer hailstorm?
[answer: the fetal postion taking hits on the spine, the feet and legs, forearms covering the head, etc.]

2] if there was a prisoner kneeling with their hands tied and it was your job to kill them with a club with a rounded rock attached to the end, where would you strike the prisoner to make the kill? ...on the back? ...on their legs or arms?

1500 year old mystery now has a reasonable theory based on the scientific facts of the Geographis study, and cultural realities surrounding what historically was a CULTURAL event. ...and hail doesn't fit the scientific or cultural bill imo..

a reply to: Char-Lee

I do wonder why the scientists left them there, maybe local taboo to remove them? Without all the data this thread will have to be speculation on our part. If the OP can provide more info, he/she will get more accurate answers. Btw, I loved the yeti idea, who knows, none of us can say either way…….

originally posted by: urmenimu
2] if there was a prisoner kneeling with their hands tied and it was your job to kill them with a club with a rounded rock attached to the end, where would you strike the prisoner to make the kill? ...on the back? ...on their legs or arms?

Answer: On the head only. But they said shoulders too which is odd...

Okay, which description is accurate? On top of the head and shoulders or on the back of the head? Or both?

originally posted by: Char-Lee

"The researchers concluded that the death was due to a fatal blow on the back of their heads and not due to any wound by weapons, avalanche or landslide. The marks on their skulls and shoulders indicated at being hit by something round, like a cricket ball. The absence of injuries to other body parts indicated that hard round objects, possibly cricket ball sized hail stones or ice balls, fell from above.

Read more at: indiatoday.intoday.in..."

"All the bodies had died in a similar way, from blows to the head. However, the short deep cracks in the skulls appeared to be the result not of weapons, but rather of something rounded. The bodies also only had wounds on their heads, and shoulders as if the blows had all come from directly above. What had killed them all, porter and pilgrim alike?

www.atlasobscura.com… "

a reply to: seentoomuch
not if you are killing 300 people, [or 100 at a time f its 3 separate groups over a couple decades]...

I hate to be so morose, but lets say 15 prisoners are lined up kneeling, with 15 guys with clubs behind them... as the kneeling prisoners fall forwards, you must step up over their back to keep reigning down blows to finish the job. you are definitely going to have some missing and glancing strikes that hit where??? ...the neck and shoulders...


I actually hypothesize the blows were all angled downward RITUALISTICALLY, driving the spirit down through the chakras [according to the cultural beliefs in that region at that time] and into the underworld, where your enemy's spirit can not haunt you from...a rebirth would be required to emerge from the underworld.

I am not denying that this intrigued me, so I did a remote-viewing. I admit that is decidedly unscientific. yet there is no denying that the compartmentalized nature of scientific disciplines leads away from whole-ecology type thinking, which would involve many layers of facts and theories. remote viewing, as a venture into the subconscious, can also work as a synthesizer of holistic theoretical analysis, much like gazing broadly at a scene as opposed to focusing on a specic element like an ant or a leaf.

my analysis is colored by remote viewing. take it or leave it for what it is.

a reply to: urmenimu
I agree with your theory, its just that the info we're basing this on is so mixed up. I mean, the scientists said that it was not a weapon that caused the head trauma due to the hairline fracture pattern, etc. That's actually why I said a sling which imo would fit better than hailstones. It was the poor man's weapon back then. It was very high speed and would imo cause similar hairline fractures. Didn't shepherds use them to protect their flocks? Don't they herd animals in that area? But if the hits were on top of the head and shoulders a sling would be out of the picture. But the other article said the hits were to the back of the head, which is accurate?

A club would be a weapon, so according to the scientists that's out. Maybe they just used a large stone? But that would be a weapon too and not leave those hairline fractures…..

In other words, we don't have enough info to work with.

Think I'm going into lurk mode on this thread until there's more info to work with, good luck y'all! Go for it!!

Note: Wow, remote viewing may be the only way at this point to have insight on this situation, it wouldn't hurt that's for sure…..

My theory...

The army was coming through. So someone poisoned the lake. Then finished them off with a rock. One person could have achieved this feat.

If it was hail. There would have been some survivors and they would have come back to bury the dead properly.

a reply to: seentoomuch

Okay, which description is accurate? On top of the head and shoulders or on the back of the head? Or both?

yes and was it 200 or the 300 others mention...unless they collected them all how would anyone guess many are in the lake.

a reply to: seentoomuch

the weapon I see is a [cricket] ball shaped rock surrounded by thick hide and attached to the end of a 24 inch stick. a blunt unattached rock might fit the forensics better. according to a post above, the forensic evidence stated A BLOW TO THE BACK OF THE HEAD nowhere else??? well then,. WHY would they say hail, as a blow to the back of the head is more closely alligned with my theory.

I believe in whole systems analysis [maybe ill do a thread on this subject], not remote viewing. despite personal incredible remote viewing experiences, I would describe my remote viewing in this instance as subconscious synthesizing of stuff calculated ego doesn't synthesize as well, then articulated by ego, according to the scientific and cultural facts known, then hypothesized. im no prophet