A Hint That My Hour Is Up

a reply to: smackdog

The meter is over by another apt. unit. That still wouldn't explain the timing, though.

a reply to: Unity_99

Yeah, I think so. And I think that some people are missing the point. This doesn't feel like an evil experience at all.

a reply to: intrptr

Actually I said worn down, but it's more like concern because there's other things that I have to get to. Sometimes people come inside the house, and that reminds me of things that I have to do. But my meditation is still deep because the type of meditation I do is a stream of consciousness type of meditation. It's called shikantaza. It's from the Soto school of Zen Buddhism.

a reply to: brazenalderpadrescorpio

It's called shikantaza. It's from the Soto school of Zen Buddhism.

I am unfamiliar with that. Does it require you to stay "in the room"? Or does it involve mantras or chants?

Are you practicing awareness of your surroundings and your conscious "thought stream"?

a reply to: intrptr

They call it a methodless method. You just let your thoughts come and go without trying to suppress them. It's a really natural type of meditation. I'm going to edit this page and put a link from Wikipedia here. But I highly recommend googling it.

Wikipedia -- Shikantaza
Angelfire -- Shikantaza
ETA: It doesn't require mantras or chants. You don't focus on your breath or anything.

a reply to: intrptr

I remember you mentioning staying in the room somewhere else. What do you mean by that?

a reply to: brazenalderpadrescorpio

Just to practice remaining in the room. As we sit quietly and close our eyes our mind will immediately wander and we loose awareness of the now in the room.. Falling into the thought stream instead of sitting on the bank and watching it go by.

Each time this happens we are to gently pull our awareness back to the room and the here and now. An anchor like your hand and later your forehead is part of the process. Thinking of your hand pulls you back to the room. Then drifting, then becoming aware, again and agin until we slowly reverse the distracted , drifting, dream like state we are in to one of a higher level of awareness. This takes a lot of practice and time to achieve.

Thats all. Its a practice of slowly undoing our addiction to being lost in day dreams and our thoughts. To slowly become more attuned, more aware of the world around us. More alert instead of more distracted. More keenly aware of the not us, the programming, the disinformation, the call from our brainwashed psyche to indulge in addictions set inside our minds by Tv, education, church, alcohol, drugs-- whatever.

If I may your technique sounds like it incorporates at least part of that in being aware of the conscious stream (thought stream) that I pointed out? Its also a good sign that it employs no chants or mantras, (more distraction).

I learned a long time ago from a Roy Masters and his Foundation of Human Understanding. Just some tapes and books of his that teach how to "remain in the room".

How does what I laid out compare to your practice?

a reply to: brazenalderpadrescorpio

I read you Wiki link…

According to Merv Fowler, shikantaza is described best as,

quiet sitting in open awareness, reflecting directly the reality of life.[13]

Shikantaza is often termed a goalless meditation in quiet awareness,

not working on any koan, or counting the breath. It is an alert condition, performed erect, with no trace of sluggishness or drowsiness.[14]

--- ETA:

While you are practicing just sitting, be clear about everything going on in your mind. Whatever you feel, be aware of it, but never abandon the awareness of your whole body sitting there. Shikantaza is not sitting with nothing to do; it is a very demanding practice, requiring diligence as well as alertness.

Ahhhh grasshopper… the correct path. Sorry, I just meant to be funny. That is the goal-- to become more aware…

this process is akin to sitting in a classroom and giving attention (waiting) for the teacher. Becoming patient enough to endure and wait to be fulfilled with lessons. This occurs so quietly and so gently the noise of our minds drown it out. The call of the world around us to get up and go attend the world is a powerful barrier to learning.

Quite opposite of what the greater world calls prayer where we "bow our heads" and talk and banter in our minds about this and that. We haven't a clue.

This other journey you practice is true prayer (meditation), a call for fulfillment and understanding that won't go unheeded. You are on the right path it seems. Just that we don't realize when we begin where it might take us. First comes a cleansing and re training of the mind. If you persist every day in this you will overcome these spiritual and physical barriers in your mind. It sounds like you are approaching one of these now. Hang in there… it gets real.

a reply to: intrptr

Shikantaza is very similar as you noted, the only difference is that there is not even a method of concentration. It sounds like it wouldn't be an effective meditation, but trust me, you go deep. I swear by it.

ETA: Read my next post before replying.

a reply to: intrptr

Just to correct my last post, the only concentration is to not get too distracted by your thoughts, as what you quoted mentions. For example, it would be very bad to work out a math equation while meditating this way. Lol. At least not at first.

a reply to: brazenalderpadrescorpio

Nothing further… just keep on the path you are on. I rarely hear about this from anyone, it is a little known method. Most religions or even proclaimed meditation practices are far from that mark.

regards,

intrptr

a reply to: intrptr

Yeah, I had to force myself to look real deep because I tended to be real bad at meditating in the more traditional manner. I was meditating this way for about 3 weeks when I had the idea to research if there was an established method like this. I had the idea to research Zen because I already knew that Zen was free from ritual, for the most part. And sure enough, the Soto school was the one that I found that utilized this. But I was really surprised to find that shikantaza was exactly the type of meditation that I was already doing. It was pure synchronicity.

a reply to: intrptr

If you are truly interested, and have some time available, I highly recommend reading an important shikantaza text by Dogen (the founder of the Soto school). It's called Shobogenzo. I'm still working on the first of the 99 or so texts, but what I have read so far is no less than fascinating. I would suggest doing some research on Wikipedia on Buddhist cosmology, doctrine and such before fully diving in. Dogen makes references to the six worlds for example, and if you don't know what those six worlds are, you may be at a loss of understanding what he's talking about.

Here it is. I suggest bookmarking the link.

Shobogenzo

I'm actually going to take a break from ATS until I read the whole text. I've been putting it off, but I've come to realize that it's because I'm spending way too much time here. I'm just gonna check in to see if have any replies, and the like.

a reply to: brazenalderpadrescorpio

Ultimately what I think meditation is designed to achieve is an open channel to wisdom. Wisdom that flows through us from without. Everyone has an antenna to heaven as it were. Tuning into the right channel lets the awareness of what the right thing to do in the moment is for us.

Once that is achieved we have a better understanding of the world around us in the moment. Then we become a source that knows right from wrong and is able to help others. Now we know how others found out the truth and become a source of it ourselves.

We have been shown how others know to write down the stuff they do. It becomes second nature to ask of this wisdom to answer difficult questions for us.

You cite Buddha, I have one from Socrates. His best description analogous to it took the form of writing a question on a blackboard in his mind and then seeing a light (from outside his mind) shine on and answer the question. That is the state we need to find through our practice of becoming still and knowing.

a reply to: intrptr

Good point about Socrates. I was just saying that to understand that text properly, a prerequisite might be to study a little about the Buddhist precepts. But on the other hand, a lot of Buddhism is steeped in dogma. One would have to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

originally posted by: brazenalderpadrescorpio
a reply to: intrptr

Good point about Socrates. I was just saying that to understand that text properly, a prerequisite might be to study a little about the Buddhist precepts. But on the other hand, a lot of Buddhism is steeped in dogma. One would have to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

Plus a lot of all the religions have confused and or even intentionally distorted their hand me down precepts. I am always leery of that. And welcome any input (such as yours) to add to my understanding. The specific practice you preform is right down my alley as far as procedure.If done correctly will lead one to enlightenment, not away.

By enlightenment I don't mean some far off place but right here common sense thinking and decision making free from dogma and distraction. People expect some huge reward for their struggles, some pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The best reward is to find out how to be. Especially how to be towards others.

a reply to: intrptr

The way I see enlightenment is seeing reality for how it is. The only way to reach that understanding is to look inwards. I figure that we use our brains to assess things. So why not practice something that helps your brain see things the way they truly are? I also feel that there are many subtle levels away from and towards enlightenment. A plant is in a way enlightened, it just doesn't know it is.

a reply to: brazenalderpadrescorpio

I was meditating this way for about 3 weeks when I had the idea to research if there was an established method like this.

You had the idea? Hmmm… wondering about what we think we know and what is leading us to the proper path.
It just didn't click with something "inside" you. That something is the inner voice of reason coming through the portal of your soul leading you in the right direction. If only we could be sure al the time about that source. Thats what meditation is designed to do. Un clutter our mind of all its phony desire and noise so we can hear that still small inner voice.

By the why, I know these things but I am hardly a good example of them in my own personal life. I am in need of some stillness myself.

a reply to: intrptr

I think that it's fascinating when our intuition tells us about things that might not make sense to our rational mind.

a reply to: brazenalderpadrescorpio

You mean like the reminder to stop meditating, before you're time is up?