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German Businesses Urge Halt on Sanctions Against Russia

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posted on May, 2 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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BERLIN— Angela Merkel is carrying a clear message from Germany's business lobby to the White House: No more sanctions.

Several of the biggest names in German business—including chemical giant BASF BAS.XE +0.70% SE, engineering group Siemens AG SIE.XE -0.96% , Volkswagen AG VOW3.XE -1.70% , Adidas AG ADS.XE +0.27% and Deutsche Bank AG DBK.XE -0.49% —have made their opposition to broader economic sanctions against Russia clear in recent weeks, both in public and in private.

As a result, Germany's position on additional, tougher sanctions is unlikely to shift, barring a dramatic escalation of the conflict in Ukraine—

German Businesses Urge Halt on Sanctions Against Russia

The Business community at large is united in placing the blame for the escalation of the Ukraine crises firmly on the shoulders of the Obama admin.

Russia accounts for about 3% of German exports. Around $105.4 billion in 2013--- But Germany derives one third of both its gas and oil from Russia. If that oil is shut off they claim it would cost some 300K jobs and shave a full point off their GDP.
Understand too that a lot of these big business tycoons are heavily vested in the Russain ecomoney too.


BASF Chief Executive Kurt Bock, whose company is a close partner with Russia's state-owned gas giant OAO Gazprom, OGZPY -1.67% recently admonished European politicians to consider the costs of sanctions and warned that unwinding the measures is often difficult. "It's up to politicians and historians to determine efficacy of boycotts, but I have my doubts,"


It is highly unusual for corporate executives to inject themselves into geopolitics and matters of national security, but with the global economy all being tangled together like it is. If one nation suffers all nations suffer--- On the balance sheets and quarterly earnings reports at least.

Clear case of Profits before freedom...

It's not just German Businesses who are worried.


Germany isn't alone in Europe in its reluctance to take a harsher line with Moscow. Italy and Greece also have resisted a more aggressive response because of the potential impact on their economies. Some of Washington's closest military allies, including Japan, Egypt and Israel, also are cautioning the Obama administration against taking steps that could permanently rupture Mr. Putin's ties to the West,


To really understand what their saying you got think like a businessmen---

Of course this is all understandable when you take into account that the Ukraine is so far away and imports relatively little then with weak sales figures this quarter is it really worth saving a people if it means cutting you net income by even a few small percent?
edit on 2-5-2014 by HardCorps because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 2 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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More current sheeple news from Germany:
A politician wants Merkel to ask about NSA spying rather than Russian stuff.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: oneoneone

Aha that NSA spying crap is ancient history---

Ten to one what he's really doing is stocking up on Russian Vodka so when the Sanctions kick in he'll be able to quadruple his investment...

See got think like a business man---Profits--- that's what's it's all about..
when you get a 200% return on your investments who cares how many dozen died in the Ukraine today.

Thinking like one of these businessmen is giving me a killer headache....



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: HardCorps


originally posted by: HardCorps
Clear case of Profits before freedom...

That depends how you define "freedom", and for whom, and from whom, and generally whose propaganda you're buying.

Many Germans doubt Obama's/Kerry's version of the truth.
If you want to understand this, you have to include two recent issues for Germans into the picture:
- US industrial espionage against German businesses / mass surveillance of the German people
- and violation of international law (and your own laws, as far as I know) from your bases on our national territory.
Plus the Obama administration lying to us about both issues on several occasions.

Also, it's by no means only "big business tycoons" that would suffer from further sanctions against Russia.


"We should avoid a revival of the cold war at all costs. It would hurt Germany and Europe, politically aswell as economically. Our economic ties with Russia are extensive. More than 6000 German companies invested more than 20 billion USD in Russia," said Fitschen - President of the Association of German Banks (BdB)

Sourcesage (Der Spiegel, German version)


originally posted by: HardCorps
To really understand what their saying you got think like a businessmen

Bash away... I know our pragmatism isn't popular.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: HardCorps
a reply to: oneoneone

Aha that NSA spying crap is ancient history


How? It's still going on.

I'd say the Nazi-Gestapo or the SED-Stasi "spying crap" is history...
The NSA? Not so much.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: ColCurious

I gave you a star for your pragmatism...

But let me remind you that the alternative to economic Sanctions
is
Military intervention...

nobody wants that.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: HardCorps

Indeed. The media claim about the NSA didn't change anything. Main chat programs/websites and phone calls were already spied on before that and still are. A keyword scanner looks for suspiciousness after which a person is ordered to check you up secretly.
It's a puppet show of imaginary divided sides, not info about actions.

Same for the price excuses and the war against people. 2 claimed imaginary sides.

Though, Youtube was bought by Google ~5 years ago, Skype was bought by MS ~3 years ago, implementing facebook stuff, Opera (browser) was bought 1 year ago, forcing users to use Google by "bug", not reverting the change. Winamp (music player) bought this year. Google censoring results for 8 years, creating a social network ~4 years ago, at the same time updating required personal info in all services. 3 years ago creating a browser Chrome, officially sending all you do away and making the main mobile phone OS Google (Android). Microsoft sending away data since Windows 98.
edit on 2-5-2014 by oneoneone because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: HardCorps


Clear case of Profits before freedom

Whose freedom? The pro Russians that the Ukraine has killed? Shutting off the gas and oil will create a tremendous hardship for the German people. What do you think would happen if a third of gas and oil here in the states were shut off? It would make the gas shortage in the 70's look like a picnic. Seeing the actions the Ukrainian government has been taking we should be placing sanctions on them but if we did that banks would lose a lot of profit wouldn't they?



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: ColCurious

originally posted by: HardCorps
a reply to: oneoneone

Aha that NSA spying crap is ancient history


How? It's still going on.

I'd say the Nazi-Gestapo or the SED-Stasi "spying crap" is history...
The NSA? Not so much.


All I meant was that Edward Snowden blew the lid off that dirty little secret months ago. Bloomberg just posted a tongue n Cheek headline about that very issue
Bloomburg: Ukraine Trumps Spying as Merkel, Obama Find Common Ground



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: HardCorps
a reply to: ColCurious
I gave you a star for your pragmatism...

Well thank you. *immediately invests star in gold*


originally posted by: HardCorps
But let me remind you that the alternative to economic Sanctions
is
Military intervention...

The outcome of economic sanctions might very well also be war.
In fact, some would argue what lead to WWII were economic reasons.

War, Debt, And Putins 2 Choices (zerohedge)

Also, there are other options... but you have to think real hard.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:06 PM
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I don’t know. If true, then it kind of ticks me off. If I were in the administration’s shoes I’d feel quite betrayed by our so-called allies. I think it’s called a sucker punch.

I understand that tougher sanctions could cause damage to European economies, as well as some damage, though not as much, to our own. That being the case, then why didn’t Merkel and the others speak up to begin with? I’ve read a number of articles where Merkel indicated they would do a real number on Russia if an invasion of Ukraine took place. She was talking it up like Russia would pay dearly. In turn, the US started puffing up their chests, thinking the Europeans would backup the agenda. Now, we will look like complete fools unless we go it on our own, which would be a risky move at best.

I thought NATO was there to protect these nations from aggressors. We did sign treaties/alliances with the Ukraine in the past didn’t we? Didn’t they give up their nukes with our promise to cover their backs? How would it look now if we just abandoned them and went back on our word? Not good, I know that! The West will look like impotent school children to the rest of the world if we tuck our tails between our legs and turn our backs on a helpless nation.

This really sucks! I’d hate to be the one calling the shots in this likely disaster.

I’m no neo-con, and believe in exhausting diplomacy first whenever possible. But, since Russia isn’t lifting a finger to help ease tensions, and if the almighty dollar (euro) wins the day in Europe, I might strongly consider lowering the hammer without allied assistance, just out of principle. Screw Europe. - maybe they’ll become part of the new socialist republic after Putin is done spanking them.

Fortunately, I’m not the President, though, and cooler heads will hopefully prevail. I would like to sick my ex-wife on Putin, though! She’d have him licking her boots!!



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: HardCorps


Clear case of Profits before freedom

Whose freedom? The pro Russians that the Ukraine has killed?


So what your saying is that if some pro Canada folks started taking over American Government building then demanding that Canada annex let say---Milwaukee--- it would be wrong for the rightful government to go in and take back control of said building...

Wow--- Glad we have you around to explain that to me.... otherwise I might have been confused.
edit on 2-5-2014 by HardCorps because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:14 PM
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I think Ukraine should take out the pro-Russian insurgents with any and all necessary force. What the pro-Russian insurgents are doing is tantamount to terrorism. You can't just go into a country and start taking control of government buildings, setting up armed road blocks, and declaring yourself the new mayor of the city. That's insane.

I think many of these insurgents are mercenaries and thrive on this sort of thing...



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: netbound


originally posted by: netbound
If I were in the administration’s shoes I’d feel quite betrayed by our so-called allies. I think it’s called a sucker punch.

Are you #ing kidding me?! YOU'D FEEL BETRAYED?!? BY US?!! "SO-CALLED ALLIES"???

*I almost never agree with Chancellor Merkel on anything. But here she finally shows some rationality for once.

I'm out. This is too much for me.
edit on 2-5-2014 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: HardCorps
a reply to: ColCurious

I gave you a star for your pragmatism...

But let me remind you that the alternative to economic Sanctions
is
Military intervention...

nobody wants that.



Sanctions are an act of war and a way the US is used doing so when they don't get their wishes.
People suffer from sanctions, loosing their living and after many die.

For example when they sanctioned Iraq, half a million children have died in Iraq. I guess that's is just worth it in geo power politics. The US sits above many world institutions and just does as she pleases.
The US should be sanctioned for a change IMO but that never happens even when she deserves it more then any other country IMO (although I'm against any sanctions).

So what should we do, talking and trying to fix things. Russia didn't fire 1 bullet yet. Europe never should give Ukraine the option joining the Euro and the US shouldn't have helped the regime change let alone put their nose in Europe and Russian affairs.

And lastly Europe should stop listening to the US and get in their own control and should just not thrust the US, they have proven IMO to be not thrustworthy.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: ColCurious
Then she shouldn't have shot her mouth off to begin with. If you can't count on your allies to back their word, I call it betrayal. I know politics is cut-throat, but that doesn't make it OK...



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:22 PM
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Heh heh. Just as I said.

In Russia, sanctions sanction you!



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: HardCorps

But that isn't the legal government.They had a constitution that they could have used to remove their President and instead protested and rioted until he left the country. Pro-Russians are trying to get that government back.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: Plugin
US has many, MANY obscene and murderous past activities to account for, but that's another thread. Personally, I thought George Dubya should've been hanged alongside Sadam Hussein for war crimes and crimes against Humanity. He's probably responsible for more unwarranted deaths in Iraq than Hussein was.

But still, should we not honor our commitments to allies? We did promise to backup Ukraine in these situations in exchange for their nukes after the Soviet Union broke up. Didn't we?

Just because America has a jaded past is still no excuse for allowing Putin to invade other sovereign nations at his whim. That could indeed get out of control. I don't know why so many of us trust Putin. I guess because he's not Obama...



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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Interesting... It's a safe game Germany is playing trying not to offend Moscow

Germany certainly isn't a surrender monkey tho...

I don't blame the Germans for the cautious actions, they need to arrange and start weening off of Russian gas and oil dependancy before they can say anything to Moscow, Moscow has Germany under her thumb right now in a similar way Russia has put Ukraine in a lose lose situation





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