Men Who Work Full-Time Earn Less Than 40 Years Ago

a reply to: TKDRL

You forgot to add that today most people have to work 80+ hrs a week to even come anywhere near that.. Meaning both parents or couples both work and still cant achieve that.

But then again, as the guy stated above its the oil companies fault.... Logic...

In 1975 my dad could buy a new car on apprenticeship wages and pay it off.

This was the last new car he bought before having kids, look how cheap them prices are for a new car. We are becoming over inflated these days.

a reply to: stormson
Thanks for a reply, stormson. I won't argue over the terminology, other than to say we're no longer a democracy. Our "leaders" are bought and paid for by corps and the elite. It's no longer 1 person, 1 vote. It's whoever has the most money gets the most votes.

It's a cryin' shame. Our great experiment in democracy has failed, and I'm not sure we can get it back. And to add insult to injury, our politicians blatantly and shamelessly shove our noses in it...

PS: Oh yeah, one other thing. The Senate shot down the minimum wage increase today. A person working 40hr/wk under the current minimum wage ($7.25/hr) is living well below the poverty level. That's just not right - I don't care how low skill the job is.

a reply to: benrl

The "Middle Class" was a historical anomaly that resulted from two-world wars and the great depression...the default state is the wealthy elite and the peasant class. We exasperated the race back to that default state with trickle down economics and a lobbyist written tax code that multiplies wealth for "unearned income" vs. actual investment. We need serious change.

originally posted by: the owlbear
a reply to: stormson

Trickle down? The so-called Bush tax cuts that Obama kept rolling were supposed to "create jobs". Remember that? Create jobs. Passed in 2002, we then dealt with the fallout of 2006-8 as businesses used their "breaks" to instead make investments instead of hires.

Due to the tax code it is more profitable for the wealthy to invest in Food and Oil futures...driving up food and gas prices...or simply sit on their wealth to make more money.

That will continue...Energy, Food, Gas is as risky an investment as most of the 1% make....because that is how the tax code that their lobbyists wrote for them reward them.

The Middle Class is withering quickly, we need to take back government or it will disappear.

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: benrl

The "Middle Class" was a historical anomaly that resulted from two-world wars and the great depression...the default state is the wealthy elite and the peasant class. We exasperated the race back to that default state with trickle down economics and a lobbyist written tax code that multiplies wealth for "unearned income" vs. actual investment. We need serious change.

not that much of an anomaly actually. the middle class has been the artist, merchant and skilled labor. they formed guilds back in the day to protect themselves from getting ripped off.

we had that once and called them unions.

originally posted by: netbound
a reply to: stormson


PS: Oh yeah, one other thing. The Senate shot down the minimum wage increase today. A person working 40hr/wk under the current minimum wage ($7.25/hr) is living well below the poverty level. That's just not right - I don't care how low skill the job is.

wasnt the senate, they passed it 54-42. it was once again the republican filibuster that killed any chance at moving forward.

originally posted by: PrinceOfEarth
a reply to: rickymouse

What happen was starting in 1978, the Supreme Court began to allow corporate money to influence politics.

Money in Politics

Also - CEOs were allowed to be 'compensated' with stock and hence their 'pay' largely was dependent on Stock Price and not on the health.

This not only is a clear conflict of interest when it comes to setting company policy; but it is a huge way that executives avoid taxes that the rest of us pay. They don't pay any employment taxes (social security, medicare, unemployment, disability, etc) but the proceeds from stock sales are taxed as capital gains @ 15%. Whereas, you and I pay 25% on all our 'pay'.

a reply to: stormson

In 1971 the biggest financial change in US history happened. The link of the dollar to gold was severed. The biggest effect of that was a very dramatically larger government. As a percentage of GDP the US now has a stronger government than China or Russia. And laughably people say this is all about capitalism failing. Sorry no, big-government really is not capitalism. It is socialism, communism, fascism, and marxism, etc. But its not capitalism.

Until people get that government spending kills us all, poor or middle class (but not rich) then we are screwed. The US is going to be a 3rd world country with two classes - the super rich and the super poor. All thanks to socialism... the system that creates a greater gap between rich and poor than capitalism could ever dream of.

originally posted by: wayforward
a reply to: stormson

In 1971 the biggest financial change in US history happened. The link of the dollar to gold was severed. The biggest effect of that was a very dramatically larger government. As a percentage of GDP the US now has a stronger government than China or Russia. And laughably people say this is all about capitalism failing. Sorry no, big-government really is not capitalism. It is socialism, communism, fascism, and marxism, etc. But its not capitalism.

Until people get that government spending kills us all, poor or middle class (but not rich) then we are screwed. The US is going to be a 3rd world country with two classes - the super rich and the super poor. All thanks to socialism... the system that creates a greater gap between rich and poor than capitalism could ever dream of.

please explain why the middle class in all the european socialist democracies are doing better than us?

originally posted by: stormson

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: benrl

The "Middle Class" was a historical anomaly that resulted from two-world wars and the great depression...the default state is the wealthy elite and the peasant class. We exasperated the race back to that default state with trickle down economics and a lobbyist written tax code that multiplies wealth for "unearned income" vs. actual investment. We need serious change.

not that much of an anomaly actually. the middle class has been the artist, merchant and skilled labor. they formed guilds back in the day to protect themselves from getting ripped off.

we had that once and called them unions.

Actually skilled labor and merchants were more akin to modern day technologists, programmers, engineers etc.

Not really middle class as much as a subset of the upper class.

Back in the day a mason was considered to have near magical knowledge...looking at the cathedrals they built when most of the world still lived in huts, you can understand why.

By Middle Class...I mean general labor being a wage that someone can actually survive on.

The term "middle class" was plucked right out of Marxism and any American who has read and understand the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights should reject that term outright.

What ever happened to "we the people"? Have we become so dumbed down and ignorant that we now accept being pigeon-holed into classes? That's a rhetorical question because the way that term is used today the answer is emphatically yes.

It is our fault that this has happen because we keep voting for the same politicians spouting the same political rhetoric that divides Americans up into classes and then pitting us against one another for their political advantage, power and gain.

Republican and democrat are two sides of the same coin. A coin that is the currency of the ruling class which in and of itself is just a shade of Marxism.

And we the people blindly accept being pawns in the game played on us by the ruling class to keep us divided and at each others throats and pointing fingers at everyone else except the person in the mirror while they rob us blink and tell us it's for the children or what ever else cockamamie BS they can us to justify to continue robbing us blind.

The Constitution is dead yet and as long as we have the right to vote, we the people have the power to thwart the ruling class and the corporate cronies if we only stop playing "their" game and get out of the game of party politics.

The time is now to start voting for a small and limited government that does not exceed it's Constitutional limits. It is because our government has exceed its Constitutional limits that we are where we are today.

Corrections:

The term "middle class" was plucked right out of Marxism and any American who has read and understand the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights should reject that term outright.

What ever happened to "we the people"? Have we become so dumbed down and ignorant that we now accept being pigeon-holed into classes? That's a rhetorical question because the way that term is used today the answer is emphatically yes.

It is our fault that this has happen because we keep voting for the same politicians spouting the same political rhetoric that divides Americans up into classes and then pitting us against one another for their political advantage, power and gain.

Republican and democrat are two sides of the same coin. A coin that is the currency of the ruling class which in and of itself is just a shade of Marxism.

And we the people blindly accept being pawns in the game played on us by the ruling class to keep us divided and at each others throats and pointing fingers at everyone else except the person in the mirror while they rob us blink and tell us it's for the children or what ever else cockamamie BS they can use to justify to continue robbing us blind.

The Constitution isn't dead yet and as long as we have the right to vote, we the people have the power to thwart the ruling class and their corporate cronies if we only stop playing "their" game and get out of the game of party politics.

The time is now to start voting for a small and limited government that does not exceed it's Constitutional limits. It is because our government has exceed its Constitutional limits that we are where we are today.

originally posted by: ThichHeaded
Ya.. no..

Dont believe me look up how much things were then to now.

Cigs: 1990 85-90 cents where I live today 7 to 7.50 a pack
Gas : 1990 99 - 110 a gallon today 3.75
lb of ground meat: 1990: 49 sale 59 not on sale today 3.99 to 5 bucks
Irony if you used gold to buy these items it would cost the same as it did in 1913.

ya your right.. Giving people money for a mandatory min wage dont increase the price of things.. Maybe its all the money we are borrowing and throwing into the money already here that is deluding it... Either way giving people 15 bucks an hr is a bad idea.. For the record I make 7.25 an hr mandatory minimum wage.

In 1990 the minimum wage was $3.80 per hour. That means you could buy a pack of cigarettes in 14 minutes 12 seconds. At $7.25/hour today you need to work 62 minutes 7 seconds.

A gallon of gas took 17 minutes 22 seconds. Today you're needing 31 minutes.

Your argument that things are more expensive because minimum wage has gone up is false. The truth is that minimum wage has gone down. Because of inflation it looks like the wage is higher, but in terms of purchasing power it is considerably lower. It's not just minimum wage either, median incomes are also down. Todays median income has less purchasing power than the minimum wage of 1967.

Other nations have a higher minimum wage, Australia for example has a similar economy to the US and has a minimum wage that is twice ours. Their goods are 10% more expensive, which leads to an overall increase of 81.81% more purchasing power at the low end. CEO's of large companies in the US that higher many minimum wage workers have outright stated they could double the minimum wage and only increase the cost of goods by 1%.

Contrary to what you've stated, paying people $15/hour as the minimum wage is actually a very good idea. To be perfectly honest, that is still too low but wages can only be increased by so much before companies can't pay because they haven't had time to get accustomed to them. The wage issue has been a compounding problem for 35 years, business needs many years of incremental change in order to reverse the problem.

CEO's of large companies in the US that higher many minimum wage workers have outright stated they could double the minimum wage and only increase the cost of goods by 1%.

source?

not flaming, but i would really like this as it would just bolster my argument.

a reply to: UUpentium

according to wiki, your definition of middle class is flawed. its actually much older than marx.

but in the final analysis, i dont see how marx is relevant. just because marx said or wrote about it doesnt mean its bad. the bible says some pretty bad things, but you dont say the whole bible is bad. even anti-christians will say theres a couple good things in it.

i agree with your question "What ever happened to "we the people"?" to me, that means unions to protect us workers from exploitation by the corps.

now, dont get me wrong, theres plenty bad with the unions at the moment and need to be reformed. just as i think the top end of the ceo pay should be a multiplier of the median wage for the company (no more than 30x), same goes for unions. the union boss should get no more than 4x the median wage of its members. no more silly little divisions of labor, either. main jobs, of course divide them. welders shouldnt do forming work, but everyone can take out the bloody trash!

my main point to all of this is that the top are taking too much, ripping off the bottom.

there should still be rich people for us to envy and work to become, and poor for us to run away from. however, those of us in the middle should be comfortable.

a reply to: netbound

They should just change the constitution from to the people, for the people and by the people to for the CEOs and shareholders since all policies in the last 30 years have been to enrich themselves politicians and their wall street chums at the expense to the people of this country.

a reply to: stormson

I remember posting information on this same issue, a few years back when the 2008 market crash topic was so hot.

Not only people are getting less pay but the quality of jobs has gone down and the living expenses has grown higher, creating a bigger historical welfare class in the nation and growing by the minute.

originally posted by: the owlbear
a reply to: stormson

Trickle down? The so-called Bush tax cuts that Obama kept rolling were supposed to "create jobs". Remember that? Create jobs. Passed in 2002, we then dealt with the fallout of 2006-8 as businesses used their "breaks" to instead make investments instead of hires.
Both parties were involved. I think it WA just a ploy in order for the labor market not to be short changed now that most baby boomers lost their investments and are bagging my groceries rather than enjoying their last few years. It's just buying time until a year or two when the millennials can enter the job market.

Right, because whatever economic policies Obama has been doing for the last six years sure have been working right? One in six on food stamps. Nearly 100 million Americans are now officially out of the work force. Yes, these policies are great!

Interesting thread and topic Stornson, thank you!

I was a child back in the 70's and it was when my family was at it's poorest. I remember my dad telling me how he fed me and him for a week on $0.73. He was resourceful, and food was cheap, and yeah, I got bored of corn fast as a child, but whatever I agreed with some posters that the rich must think of the middle class as a threat. We are being treated that way at least. That mindset "Go big, or go home" takes on new meaning when you think about it. The American way is to strive to be rich, and nothing else. To own more than any of your friends or colleagues.

I was raised by hippies and was taught to only want what you truly need. I need food, shelter and a few friends, that's about it. I was resourceful as a child and played with crayons and sticks and bugs, whatever was around was my toy.

In my state of Washington they just raised the minimum wage to $15, yet I work for a ginormous corporate machine (worth more than $395 billion) contracting for less than that (this data mining gig STINKS!). This legislation has loopholes of course that favor certain businesses, as is typical (our socialist council member is raising hell thankfully). Also there is no labor unions for most of the tech field, and thanks to MS tons of clauses that allow them to give no benes for fulltime employees that are under contract. The mindset that these huge companies are "losing" money when they dish out benefits or perks is ridiculous. They are simply not raking in as much.

I am playing hookie from this crappy job today since I realize sanity is more important than having money (and sun in Seattle is somewhat rare). I would love for this inequality to be remedied, but I see no fix that does not cause huge turmoil.

The problem with babystepping legislation in this direction is the rich own and control most of every government, and tend to want to remain rich.

Bless you all! May you find what you need on this earth and learn to share it.