Special Report - How the U.S. made its Putin problem worse

I'm posting this thread in the WWIII Forum only becasue it relates to current events with Uktaine,
Russia, Europe and the United States.

The article I'm posting is a fairly long read (about 10 minutes), but most interestingly
charts political events between the Bush administration up to today's stand off
with Russia.

I have been a staunch adversary of Putin's politics for a long time and as you
know fairly outspoken about him in the Ukraine/Crimea situations.

I have to say that after reading the entire article I have some sympathy with Putin,
and look towards the United States and it's partners for Isolating Putin in the first place.

To sum up then.. We have missed good opportunities to build relations with Moscow.

The damage is done now.. only hope is that the West learn from it's mistakes.
Will that happen.. I doubt it, but one can hope that like individuals the powerful ones can learn
to grow along with their experiences.

Source

Reuters) - In September 2001, as the U.S. reeled from the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, Vladimir Putin supported Washington's imminent invasion of Afghanistan in ways that would have been inconceivable during the Cold War. He agreed that U.S. planes carrying humanitarian aid could fly through Russian air space. He said the U.S. military could use airbases in former Soviet republics in Central Asia. And he ordered his generals to brief their U.S. counterparts on their own ill-fated 1980s occupation of Afghanistan. During Putin's visit to President George W. Bush's Texas ranch two months later, the U.S. leader, speaking at a local high school, declared his Russian counterpart "a new style of leader, a reformer…, a man who's going to make a huge difference in making the world more peaceful, by working closely with the United States." For a moment, it seemed, the distrust and antipathy of the Cold War were fading.

originally posted by: rigel4
We have missed good opportunities to build relations with Moscow.

The damage is done now.. only hope is that the West learn from it's mistakes.

Moscow is IMO not exactly a role model.

Moscow corrupted, people unhappy

Moscow sentences innocent man to perpetual prison

Moscow - A Land of Corruption

a reply to: rigel4

Well, I be durned! Weren't TPTB lucky. They were just shutting down one enormous drain on the US taxpayer and another fuss starts up.

But stop and think about it, Europe is more or less in the middle there is no way (famous last words?) that the US and Russian can go at war in that situation. But a dandy, little guaranteed limited cold war? Go for it big guys?

a reply to: swanne

I never said Putin is a good man or an Ideal leader,
But I think we could have made a better job of
nurturing relations with him.

a reply to: rigel4

But mate... He doesn't represent the Russian people anymore. He only represents his personal interests. How would entertaining relation with him benefit us American people, or even the Russian people for that matters?

a reply to: rigel4

The damage is done now.. only hope is that the West learn from it's mistakes.

Serial killers learn from their mistakes, too.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: rigel4

The damage is done now.. only hope is that the West learn from it's mistakes.

Serial killers learn from their mistakes, too.

Are you talking about George Bush?
or the collective PTB?

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: rigel4

But mate... He doesn't represent the Russian people anymore. He only represents his personal interests. How would entertaining relation with him benefit us American people ,or even the Russian people for that matters?

Doesn't that seem to apply to every government that is contributing to merging into what ever wild idea they are planning thru the use of Agenda 21 and allowing the Bankers and Corporations to be in charge of the New World Oligarchy?

Governments no longer represent their people! Money has proven to be the root of all evil.....

a reply to: seeker1963

And, relations wouldn't change anything. It's a theatre, and the true hidden hand remains behind the scene, and you never hear about it.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: seeker1963

And relations wouldn't change anything. It's a theatre, and the true hidden hand remains behind the scene, and you never hear about it.

Exactly!

We are mere pawns in the game!

Hell on Earth would commence immediately, if the truth ever comes out.....

I guess now the Putin can deal with Ukrainian terrorists as well as Chechen?I think time will show this more politically harmful to Putin.With sanctions being implemented and no sign of this dying down,this conflict could drag on and on...or grow wider.

a reply to: rigel4

Are you talking about George Bush? or the collective PTB?

Lil george? He's just a frontman for the country after country serial killers.

American Military (NATO) is the enforcement arm.

Yea, banks and banisters are but one such power behind the politicians,
but in the end I'm not sure that I buy into the New World Order, well not like the
grand Illuminati type conspiracies.

Sure there are powerful groups that do take on governments,
but there is not one controlling hand in my honest opinion.

If there were ... What the hell are they waiting for?
Wouldn't they just do what ever they are going to do and be done with it.

originally posted by: TDawg61
I guess now the Putin can deal with Ukrainian terrorists as well as Chechen?I think time will show this more politically harmful to Putin.With sanctions being implemented and no sign of this dying down,this conflict could drag on and on...or grow wider.

Of course it will.. It's too late to sort out relations.
There may or may not be a conflict, but there most definitely will
be a new cold war.

Perhaps that is the Intention of both Putin and the West.
Mutually beneficial bogey men.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: rigel4

But mate... He doesn't represent the Russian people anymore. He only represents his personal interests. How would entertaining relation with him benefit us American people ,or even the Russian people for that matters?

Doesn't that seem to apply to every government that is contributing to merging into what ever wild idea they are planning thru the use of Agenda 21 and allowing the Bankers and Corporations to be in charge of the New World Oligarchy?

Governments no longer represent their people! Money has proven to be the root of all evil.....

Probably used to create problems so technocracy can be implemented in the west. The whole selling the gold in secret to China screams that the banking feudal lords are creating the monetary catastrophe to be sure the western world will not go back to the gold standard with capitalism when the SHTF but still be trapped by the corporations (and the feudal masters hiding behind them) in the new energy based economic system.

Any economic system controlled by those thugs will suck whatever name they call it.

If there were ... What the hell are they waiting for? Wouldn't they just do what ever they are going to do and be done with it.

The economic crash of the Petrodollar so that they can get the people to demand the new economic system.

originally posted by: rigel4
Yea, banks and banisters are but one such power behind the politicians,
but in the end I'm not sure that I buy into the New World Order, well not like the
grand Illuminati type conspiracies.

Sure there are powerful groups that do take on governments,
but there is not one controlling hand in my honest opinion.

If there were ... What the hell are they waiting for?
Wouldn't they just do what ever they are going to do and be done with it.

I don't buy into the Illuminati type stuff either. However, I don't disregard it!

Think about power and wealth for a few seconds......

Keep in mind, that to get to this point in our world, MANY wealthy and powerful people have been created AND contributed to get to this point! The problem I see, is they are having MANY INTERNAL STRUGGLES on how and when to pull the plug.

Seriously. Think about it! Even though the wealthy elite 1% are small, they still have a large number amongst themselves to contend with when it comes to dissension in the ranks....

a reply to: rigel4

If there were ... What the hell are they waiting for?
Wouldn't they just do what ever they are going to do and be done with it.

But they are. The ultimate prize, the brass ring is world domination. Even then they still won't be happy.

Like the Universe, greed is boundless.

originally posted by: rigel4

originally posted by: TDawg61
I guess now the Putin can deal with Ukrainian terrorists as well as Chechen?I think time will show this more politically harmful to Putin.With sanctions being implemented and no sign of this dying down,this conflict could drag on and on...or grow wider.

Of course it will.. It's too late to sort out relations.
There may or may not be a conflict, but there most definitely will
be a new cold war.

Perhaps that is the Intention of both Putin and the West.
Mutually beneficial bogey men.

One of the more plausible reasons for this conflict rigel4.As the cold war goes,I was born the year of the Cuban missile crises.I got chill down spine other day when reading of Russian jet buzzing US warships in international waters.Definite cold war tactic revisited...

Russia is corrupt, along with Washington, London, Paris, Berlin.....

Putin told us what his intentions were right from the outset. They didn't support the NATO invasion of Kosovo, but they felt the West's problems with Islamic fundamentalists, were the same problems he was facing within Russia.

And now they feel NATO has progressed too far to her borders and if the Ukraine were to join the E.U, they would soon join NATO.

The U.S didn't do enough to kill the old Soviet ideology when they had the chance. They certainly left the Russians out to dry, but they didn't put the boot on the throat and this is the consequence of these inactions.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

What gives the US the rights to change how ANY country does it's business?

The US military is nothing more than a dog on a leash for the global banks!

In fact our Constitution does not say one damn thing about making "regime changes" based upon spreading Democracy!

When a country becomes a threat to the US then that country should be dealt with. BUT not based upon global strategies to create a global governance that will take away the sovereignty of countries.....