Faith VS Science & Athiests

reply to post by Annunak1


Personally pal, I feel if the conversation ended here...

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

... All the Atheists, not Scientists... Would have applauded your post...

As it happens it went on to bring up some interesting points that clearly irked the dissidents!!!


Look at it like this people...
DNA has always been a fact, but until recently unprovable, unverifiable via Scientific Method, until the right technology became apparent!!!
Higgs Boson recently had a wonderful piece of news that after 30 years and a lot of denial, it is now in fact a high probability, thanks again to more recent technology that helped make this conclusion possible!!!

Now add this to the theory that Spirits & the Creator of all do exist...
Wouldn't it also be right to say that this would be the greatest breakthrough in Scientific history???
Wouldn't it also be correct to say that to do this would take the single greatest Technological breakthrough we would ever be able to manage???
Meaning of life & all that...

We're reading words throughout the Universe decoded into a machine that travel through satellites & all sorts of other technology so you can read this post 3 seconds after I press "send"... But it took millions of years to do this, even though it was always a fact...
This is something we take for granted...
Technological ability is what defines a theory... Not the Scientific Method itself... Without the Tech, we'd never have known any of this was possible... That wouldn't have meant it wasn't a possibility, with hindsight it seems like a fallacy, but only 50 years ago none of these advances were available... On Earth at least

We need Patience & Faith...
And I say that from a Scientific perspective, not Religious!!!

The Grand Creator is also Patient... & will be there for us when the time is right to understand!!!

We, humans, not Spiritually but Physically, are still...
Wet Behind The Ears...
Let's Hear The Death Defying Cheers...
& Exorcise Our Fears...
We've Questioned Life For Years...
Bring The Spiritual To Physics & We'll Mesmorise Our Peers!!!


Take Them Back To B.C...Binary Code!!!

Peace everybody!!!

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You know, I really don't care about evolution and really don't want to learn about it.. But just like religion which cannot prove a God actually exists, you cannot prove that animals evolve over time with evidence produced right in front of my face. You can direct me to as many websites as you like, pound information into me if it makes you feel better but the truth is you cannot give me a physical example of evolution taking place right before my eyes. Your belief in this theory is based around faith. I can go to the Bible and learn whether it is credible or not just the same as evolution but the end result it the same, it is based around faith. Animals and humans should be changing form all the time regardless of whether the process takes time or not as many should be at different stages of the evolution process at any given time. Usually these days, any mutation kills the animal or human, it doesn't advance it or change it. So if it cannot happen now, then how did it happen in the past?

Do you believe humans could live till 900 years old roughly 6000 years ago going by the Bible? Proving evolution is like trying to prove that.

Here's some nice books you can check out

Refuting Evolution 1 and 2 (Dr Jonathan Sarfati)
The Answers Book
Not by chance (Dr. Lee Spetner)
Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical challenge to Evolution (Dr. Michael Behe)

168617
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

You know, I really don't care about evolution and really don't want to learn about it.. But just like religion which cannot prove a God actually exists, you cannot prove that animals evolve over time with evidence produced right in front of my face. You can direct me to as many websites as you like, pound information into me if it makes you feel better but the truth is you cannot give me a physical example of evolution taking place right before my eyes. Your belief in this theory is based around faith. I can go to the Bible and learn whether it is credible or not just the same as evolution but the end result it the same, it is based around faith. Animals and humans should be changing form all the time regardless of whether the process takes time or not as many should be at different stages of the evolution process at any given time. Usually these days, any mutation kills the animal or human, it doesn't advance it or change it. So if it cannot happen now, then how did it happen in the past?

Do you believe humans could live till 900 years old roughly 6000 years ago going by the Bible? Proving evolution is like trying to prove that.

Here's some nice books you can check out

Refuting Evolution 1 and 2 (Dr Jonathan Sarfati)
The Answers Book
Not by chance (Dr. Lee Spetner)
Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical challenge to Evolution (Dr. Michael Behe)

edit on 15-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

Dog breeding is evolution which happens right before our eyes. Unless you mean evolution of one species into another, but that isn't what you said. Basic evolution is very obvious within the selective breeding of dogs however and is visible right here and now. The selective breeding of certain characteristics being done over and over have produced all the various Breeds we see within dogs. That is evolution which is visible. I know you probably won't accept that answer because you'll probably want to tack on some extra criteria now which you didn't mention earlier, but dog breeding shows the process of selective breeding and evolution at work. That is a fact. It wasn't God choosing to make all those various Dogs the way they are. It was mostly Humans doing the careful breeding over time which has produced the very distinct differences.

reply to post by mOjOm


No, I'm talking about the process of one animal turning into another animal. Regardless of whether different types of dogs can reproduce amongst each other, they are all still dogs.

168617
reply to post by mOjOm

 

No, I'm talking about the process of one animal turning into another animal. Regardless of whether different types of dogs can reproduce amongst each other, they are all still dogs.

That's what I thought you'd say. So you're asking for evidence on how a dog turns into a cat, in a matter of speaking that is. Macro Evolution of one species into another, right?

I'm not an expert or even much of a student of Evolutionary theory so I'm not going to waste your time pretending to be. Nor my own time quoting someone else and their research as if it is my own or even that I agree. But I will say that I'm not even sure if the question you're asking is even a valid one to begin with. I think there are too many assumptions being made already to properly put such a question in context.

What I mean is, what exactly is it that you think Evolutionary Theory says about Macro Evolution currently???

Does it say somewhere that in fact Cat's do Turn into Dog's???

Or is that just a really simplified and incorrect version of it which is being misrepresented???

Also, I'm curious as to what evidence you have that God made all the Species of a certain kind and that is how it's done?? Because it would seem to me that without any bias toward one side or the other, one could say that neither side has proof which is conclusive, fine. However, one side does at least have an abundance of evidence to support it's theory which is repeatable and testable, while the other side just has a stubborn belief system and a book of questionable authority.

All animals (bar those animals that eventually and inevitably will become extinct) slowly evolve toward their prototype.

All human beings, on the contrary, slowly evolve away from their prototype.

It will take a long long time before these obvious Truths will become universally accepted.

Earth is still a world of Darkness!

Mankind is still in its infancy!


Cheers

reply to post by djeminy


Not sure I'd agree, but then I'm not sure exactly what you mean either.

Are you saying that animals evolve back to their starting point??? If so, then why did they change from the prototype in the first place??? If you're evolving from a start point to an end point, which is the same point, then you end where you started meaning there is no evolution in the first place.

reply to post by mOjOm


That's exactly my point. I have no evidence that a God even exists except for existence itself. Evolution tries to explain the origins of creation yet it cannot reproduce the very thing that it is trying to bring to the table. Now anyone can see that bacteria mutates and can take on other bacteria's but when it comes down to the crunch, it is still bacteria. It hasn't changed into an insect or grown arms and legs, it's just a different form or a new strain of Bacteria. In most cases, this hasn't happened by natural evolution, it is created by scientist's in a laboratory.

168617
reply to post by mOjOm

 

I have no evidence that a God even exists except for existence itself.

Ok, I see what you're saying I think.

One more question. How is Existence itself evidence for God though???

Just existence being evidence can't be evidence for a Creator since you'd still have the issue of the Creators Existence. It's an endless loop or yet another Creator creating His Existence and so on. Unless you say the Creator always existed, but you could just as easily say Existence also has always existed too. Ya see what I mean. It always boils down to "Something existing then Creating something" or simply "Something Existing". I don't see why the extra step is needed or justified.

mOjOm

168617
reply to post by mOjOm

 

I have no evidence that a God even exists except for existence itself.

Ok, I see what you're saying I think.

One more question. How is Existence itself evidence for God though???

Just existence being evidence can't be evidence for a Creator since you'd still have the issue of the Creators Existence. It's an endless loop or yet another Creator creating His Existence and so on. Unless you say the Creator always existed, but you could just as easily say Existence also has always existed too. Ya see what I mean. It always boils down to "Something existing then Creating something" or simply "Something Existing". I don't see why the extra step is needed or justified.

I agree with you. Existence is only evidence that something did happen and what it actually was no-one can know. Whether it's God, just sheer coincidence or anything else will always be speculated. I only say God because the religious scriptures use God as meaning "The creator of the Universe" which we live in. God is sciences way of saying "The big bang theory".

168617
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

You know, I really don't care about evolution and really don't want to learn about it.. But just like religion which cannot prove a God actually exists, you cannot prove that animals evolve over time with evidence produced right in front of my face. You can direct me to as many websites as you like, pound information into me if it makes you feel better but the truth is you cannot give me a physical example of evolution taking place right before my eyes. Your belief in this theory is based around faith. I can go to the Bible and learn whether it is credible or not just the same as evolution but the end result it the same, it is based around faith. Animals and humans should be changing form all the time regardless of whether the process takes time or not as many should be at different stages of the evolution process at any given time. Usually these days, any mutation kills the animal or human, it doesn't advance it or change it. So if it cannot happen now, then how did it happen in the past?

Do you believe humans could live till 900 years old roughly 6000 years ago going by the Bible? Proving evolution is like trying to prove that.

Here's some nice books you can check out

Refuting Evolution 1 and 2 (Dr Jonathan Sarfati)
The Answers Book
Not by chance (Dr. Lee Spetner)
Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical challenge to Evolution (Dr. Michael Behe)

edit on 15-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

(Facepalm)
Then you have a closed mind and you have been wilfully trolling us. If you can't be bothered to find out how Evolution works and still worse have no intention of opening up your mind to find out more then some will say that it's useless to converse with you. The fact remains that Evolution is a testable, provable theory with evidence that lies in the fossil record. A single visit to a natural history museum will prove that to you. But no, you want proof that's right in front of your eyes. Fine. Here's something. Presumably you have an appendix. What's that for?

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


It's just like an Atheist not wanting to learn the truth about religion, why would I bother learning about evolution, I'd rather be ignorant towards it. It's just nice wasting your time like I waste my time explaining things about religion. But at least you's can give yourselves some self glorification through pathetic stars, hey?

168617
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

It's just like an Atheist not wanting to learn the truth about religion, why would I bother learning about evolution, I'd rather be ignorant towards it. It's just nice wasting your time like I waste my time explaining things about religion.

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

Oddly enough getting an O-level in Scripture put me on the path to becoming an atheist. Studying the Bible for my confirmation closed the deal for me. So your analogy fails to launch. Anyway - you'd rather be ignorant of Evolution? You want to close your mind to knowledge? Seriously? How sad. I pity you. It's not often that someone states on this website that they want to remain stupid. And you've also confessed to trolling. I see. You're not a very nice person are you?

mOjOm
reply to post by djeminy

 

Not sure I'd agree, but then I'm not sure exactly what you mean either.

Are you saying that animals evolve back to their starting point??? If so, then why did they change from the prototype in the first place??? If you're evolving from a start point to an end point, which is the same point, then you end where you started meaning there is no evolution in the first place.

Hi mOjOm,

your questions and your comment clearly indicates you're a very intelligent person, and
as such i think you'll get infinitely more pleasure out of finding these answers all by your
own volition, rather than asking me to come across as a pompous know-it-all 'lecturer'
telling you what is 'right and wrong'!

But to spur your curiosity, let me at least answer your first question this way:
Yes, that's actually exactly what i'm saying. And, of course, humans are 'evolving' away
from their starting point.

The answer to your second question is what i would like you (also) to find by your own
effort.

In this thread, on page 7, a quarter way down, i wrote a post describing the 'appearance'
of God. This post was completely ignored.

In the thread "Death is a lie ...i mean, Life is a dept ..." further down here, on 11/4 - 14,
i contributed with 7 posts all on the second page. They, also, were all met with deadly
silence.
(Probably because the subject is so totally foreign to their way of thinking, but
nevertheless rings true)!

Generally, people are very frightened to read something that completely deviates from
their established opinions or beliefs it has taken them a long time to come to, so it is my
hope that you do not belong to this category of people, but have 'evolved' to the point of
having a 'free' mind of your own.

I therefore will ask if you would kindly read these 8 posts of mine referred to above, and
then we could take it from there - if you like!

Cheers

AngryCymraeg

168617
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

It's just like an Atheist not wanting to learn the truth about religion, why would I bother learning about evolution, I'd rather be ignorant towards it. It's just nice wasting your time like I waste my time explaining things about religion.

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

Oddly enough getting an O-level in Scripture put me on the path to becoming an atheist. Studying the Bible for my confirmation closed the deal for me. So your analogy fails to launch. Anyway - you'd rather be ignorant of Evolution? You want to close your mind to knowledge? Seriously? How sad. I pity you. It's not often that someone states on this website that they want to remain stupid. And you've also confessed to trolling. I see. You're not a very nice person are you?

You think I'm stupid? Your way off the mark. You haven't proven anything to me. All you have proven is that you do put your faith into something which cannot be observed. A fossil record is the only thing you have and even that is sketchy to some higher tier scientists.

Let's see some of the smartest people in your country answer the same question. They give the same pathetic excuse that you do...

reply to post by AngryCymraeg

Here's something. Presumably you have an appendix. What's that for?

Not to be pedantic, but that myth needs to stop!!!
It's main purpose is to produce new & healthy Blood Cells!!!

However it can become enflamed which then it will need to be removed...
It's survivable... However those Blood Cells being created will now be non-existent & we'll be left with what we have!!!

I tried to find a link between removed appendix & Cancer survival rate...
It seems it hasn't occurred to many to document such a "cause & effect" so to speak!!!



Peace Angry!!!

168617
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

It's just like an Atheist not wanting to learn the truth about religion, why would I bother learning about evolution, I'd rather be ignorant towards it. It's just nice wasting your time like I waste my time explaining things about religion. But at least you's can give yourselves some self glorification through pathetic stars, hey?

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

Wait. That is not a justified claim to say Athiests don't learn about religion. In fact it's almost the opposite most of the time from what I can tell.

But for the sake of argument let's say that it was true. How is it that when they do it, you consider it wrong, but then it's ok for you to do the same thing right back???

Because others choose to be ignorant and not learn means that it's ok then for you to do the same????

Also, you just totally admitted you are here for nothing than to troll others. You're now a self admitted fake and troll who's here only to waste other peoples time. You now have Zero Value in any past or future conversation.

What a Lame!!!

reply to post by mOjOm


I'm here to troll? Ok then, you give me observable proof that evolution is real... If I accept the fossil record as proof that evolution is absolutely correct that means I can give 100's, if not 1000's of proof's that religion is absolutely correct and from experts/scholars. So this in a way is only beginning bro, I'm not trolling anyone. I'm just testing the water right now. Why do you think I keep going?

168617

AngryCymraeg

168617
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

It's just like an Atheist not wanting to learn the truth about religion, why would I bother learning about evolution, I'd rather be ignorant towards it. It's just nice wasting your time like I waste my time explaining things about religion.

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

Oddly enough getting an O-level in Scripture put me on the path to becoming an atheist. Studying the Bible for my confirmation closed the deal for me. So your analogy fails to launch. Anyway - you'd rather be ignorant of Evolution? You want to close your mind to knowledge? Seriously? How sad. I pity you. It's not often that someone states on this website that they want to remain stupid. And you've also confessed to trolling. I see. You're not a very nice person are you?

You think I'm stupid? Your way off the mark. You haven't proven anything to me. All you have proven is that you do put your faith into something which cannot be observed. A fossil record is the only thing you have and even that is sketchy to some higher tier scientists.

Let's see some of the smartest people in your country answer the same question. They give the same pathetic excuse that you do...

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

Stupid was a poor choice of words and I apologise. Ignorant is a better word. You see nothing wrong with trolling us and insulting us with your statements. The fact that you can't be bothered to look at Evolution - as you yourself have admitted - is damning. It speaks of a closed mind. Which is quite sad. As I said - I pity you.

reply to post by djeminy


I'll go read pg 7 after I post this. I'm still not sure why or how something can start and end at the same point but yet also have a path of evolution in between. Your start and end are the same so there is no change between the two. Plus, evolution wouldn't actually work like that. If I took a random dog species and isolated it, it wouldn't devolve back into a wolf. It would change attributes over time but wouldn't change back to being the same as it's original starting point. Although it wouldn't stay as it was either.