Faith VS Science & Athiests

168617
reply to post by mOjOm

 

I'm here to troll? Ok then, you give me observable proof that evolution is real... If I accept the fossil record as proof that evolution is absolutely correct that means I can give 100's, if not 1000's of proof's that religion is absolutely correct and from experts/scholars. So this in a way is only beginning bro, I'm not trolling anyone. I'm just testing the water right now. Why do you think I keep going?

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

This is, in itself, admission of trolling. Given the fact that evidence of Evolution has been given to you again and again in this thread, you are trolling and you have admitted that you don't want to learn about Evolution. I have reported you to the Mods.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


That's fine but when I start showing you undeniable facts from the Qur'an, are you going to look at them and decide whether they are correct or false? Because I can show you plenty and that includes the prophecies which are be fulfilled right before your eyes. I think that you's are the one's who are short sighted..

168617
reply to post by mOjOm

 

I'm here to troll? Ok then, you give me observable proof that evolution is real... If I accept the fossil record as proof that evolution is absolutely correct that means I can give 100's, if not 1000's of proof's that religion is absolutely correct and from experts/scholars. So this in a way is only beginning bro, I'm not trolling anyone. I'm just testing the water right now. Why do you think I keep going?

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

Not because of your argument.

Because you said it yourself.

Here is what you just wrote:

I'd rather be ignorant towards it. It's just nice wasting your time like I waste my time explaining things about religion.

Don't get mad at me for something you wrote.

168617
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

That's fine but when I start showing you undeniable facts from the Qur'an, are you going to look at them and decide whether they are correct or false? Because I can show you plenty and that includes the prophecies which are be fulfilled right before your eyes. I think that you's are the one's who are short sighted..

Riiiiight... So a book of fairy tales & myths somehow beats cold hard fossils? Hmmm, let me see.... Nope.

reply to post by djeminy


Ok, I'm familiar with that argument actually. Here is the problem I have with it though.

Actually there is a God, but he's in fact infinitely 'more' than immature human beings at present times can comprehend!

If that is the case, then God is unable to present himself to us in a way which we could fully understand and comprehend, at even the very minimum, just the fact that he and I are in fact present to one another. How is that possible that God in all his Divinity would be unable to even allow at the minimum for me to comprehend his presence??? Not his full and complete nature, but just that he was there interacting with me in a way which I totally know is true. Not a dream like, or fuzzy vision or something, but actually there in a way I can grasp.

To say that human beings cannot comprehend him and say that is a "Fact" is not possible. How could you Know that if he's beyond our ability to comprehend??? Or are you not Human???

mOjOm
reply to post by djeminy

 

I'll go read pg 7 after I post this. I'm still not sure why or how something can start and end at the same point but yet also have a path of evolution in between. Your start and end are the same so there is no change between the two. Plus, evolution wouldn't actually work like that. If I took a random dog species and isolated it, it wouldn't devolve back into a wolf. It would change attributes over time but wouldn't change back to being the same as it's original starting point. Although it wouldn't stay as it was either.

Thanks mOjOm, much appreciated.

It's called "degeneration". It happens all the time. Especially amongst humans, even as we speak.

Will look forward to your comment about page 7.

But what about the other 7 posts in the other thread??

Cheers

AngryCymraeg

168617
reply to post by AngryCymraeg

 

That's fine but when I start showing you undeniable facts from the Qur'an, are you going to look at them and decide whether they are correct or false? Because I can show you plenty and that includes the prophecies which are be fulfilled right before your eyes. I think that you's are the one's who are short sighted..

Riiiiight... So a book of fairy tales & myths somehow beats cold hard fossils? Hmmm, let me see.... Nope.

That is kinda dismissive also. Not that I don't fully understand what you're saying but you should at least allow them to present his "facts", whatever they are before you dismiss them outright. Without knowing what he has to show as "facts", regardless of where they come from as it's source, you should at least wait until you see them before you dismiss them. I mean obviously there are going to be some facts within the all holy books even if it's mixed with myth too.

Just my opinion though....not trying to stick my nose in the middle of your battle to find the most stubborn or anything....

reply to post by AngryCymraeg

Human Embryonic Development

How could Muhammad (peace be upon him) have possibly known all this 1,400 years ago when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment and powerful microscopes which did not exist at that time? Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells using an improved microscope in 1677 A.D. (more than 1,000 years after Muhammad, peace be upon him]. They mistakenly thought that the sperm cell contained a miniature preformed human being that grew when it was deposited in the female genital tract [The Developing Human, p.9]

Professor Keith Moore is one of the world's prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled the "Developing Human", which has been translated into eight languages. This book is considered a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by on person. Dr. Keith Moore is a Professor of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences.

In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said; "It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been the messenger of God, or Allah [The reference for this statement is on 'This is the Truth' (video tape). For a copy of this video tape please contact us].

Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question, "Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the Word of God?" He replied; "I find no difficulty in accepting this."

During one conference, Professor Moore stated, "... because the stagein of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Quran and the Sunnah (sayings of Muhammad, peace be upon him). The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge. The intensive studies of the Quran and Hadith (reliably transmitted sayings and reports of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him) in the last four years have revealed a system of classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the 7th century A.D. Although Eric Statle, the founder of the science of embryology, realized that chick embryos developed in stages from his studies of hen's eggs in the fourth century B.C., he did not give any details about these stages. As far as it is known from the history of embryology, little was known about the stagein and classification of human embryos until the twentieth century. For this reason, the descriptions of the human embryo in the Quran cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the 7th century A.D. The only reasonable conclusion is that these descriptions were revealed to Muhammad from God. He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training."

SOME OF THE PROPHECIES OF ISLAM

- Widespread fornication and adultery - Undeniable
- The loss of trust - Speaks for itself in the West
- Widespread acceptance of Usury and interest - The West is built off it
- The spread of alcohol consumption - Everyone
- Shepherds competing in building tall structures - Dubai/Saudi Arabia and the West
- Loss of Islamic knowledge - yep
- An increase in Earthquakes - Has been happening lately
- An increase in killings - Undeniable
- Women will out number men - Happening
- Women who are clothed yet naked - undeniable
- An increase in false testimony and false witness - Undeniable
- The Romans will fight the Muslims - It's happening
- Men will look like women and women like men - undeniable
- Time will move quickly - Depends
- Immoral deeds will be committed openly - undeniable
- Wild animals and inanimate objects will speak to us - TV, GPS, Sesame street etc - undeniable
- A mountain of Gold will be found in the Euphrates river - Obviously oil
- The deserts of Arabia will become lush and fertile - Happening now

Very basic stuff which can all be proven... Don't bother looking in the Qur'an because the Qur'an isn't the only Islamic book. If you want to go into the Bible also, I can. Scientists around the world have acknowledged the Qur'an because of it's remarkable teachings that couldn't of been taught at that time.

reply to post by 168617


I see that you're not even denying that the fact that you're trolling.

AngryCymraeg
reply to post by 168617

 

I see that you're not even denying that the fact that you're trolling.

You should check out all those historical facts from the Qur'an.. Maybe even ask yourself where Western science originated from because it wasn't a bunch of English Pagans sitting around at Stonehenge.

AngryCymraeg
reply to post by 168617

 

I see that you're not even denying that the fact that you're trolling.

Umm, the thread is called faith vs science and atheists. Now that I have shown you what religion says about science, I will be happy if you can disprove everything I just posted. And that part about Biology is just one example.....

168617
when I start showing you undeniable facts from the Qur'an, ...

There are none.

Any of your so called 'facts' are just people trying to put square pegs in a round hole. Large chunks of your Qu'ran (and the bible and the Jewish texts) have been completely disproven. Adam and Eve. Noahs Ark. Abraham even existing is seriously in question and he absolutely didn't build that Kaaba. Exodus didn't happen like the stories say. And the Ten Commandments came from men, not from God on a mountaintop. Any supposed science in the Qu'ran came from people who came before them. The Egyptians and Summerians had excellent math and science and skills, as well as knowledge of the human body from their work with the dead. There is no 'revealed' information in the Qu'ran. None. It's plagiarized.

The modern day science behind DNA and natural selection are indisputable and solid.
As for your 'list' -

- Human Embryonic Development - Known to humans for thousands of years. Women miscarry all the time at different stages. It's an 'in your face' obvious thing to everyone. Especially midwives who dealt with the miscarriages at different stages. No magical mystery there.

- Widespread fornication and adultery - That's been a part of human life all through history. It's not a magical prophecy to state that it would continue to be.

- The loss of trust - Oh come on.

- Widespread acceptance of Usury and interest - Duh. It' common sense economics. And there has always been 'interest' as a part of economics worldwide. By the way .. there is nothing wrong with it. It's good business.

- The spread of alcohol consumption - There has ALWAYS been alcohol consumption. Heck, NOAH himself supposedly got drunk right after the (alleged) flood and, from the sound of it, he was a MEAN drunk. People have always consumed alcohol. That's not exactly a 'prophecy'.

- Loss of Islamic knowledge - Good.

- An increase in Earthquakes - not an 'increase'. There have always been earthquakes everywhere. It's just that with instant communication, we hear about them all.

- An increase in killings - An increase in the number because of an increase in the number of people. However, as a percentage of the population goes, it's probably just the same. BTW Islam (and religion in general) is responsible for a whole lotta death ... spread by the sword and all that. No 'prophecy' there.

- Women will out number men - by like 1%. Women outlive men. It's natural. It always has been. And men traditionally go to war and do bad things to get themselves killed (like Al Qaida). It's always been that way. This is not a prophecy.

- An increase in false testimony and false witness - Nope. Humans have always lied. (like Muhammad saying he had visions from God .. but had no proof. People all over the world in different religions have lied about religious visions.) People all over the world lie. Always have. Always will.

- The Romans will fight the Muslims - Italy and Islam aren't at war. Unless you count Islam itself declaring war on anyone who disagrees with them. THAT is true ...

- Men will look like women and women like men - Predicted in the bible. That's not an original 'Quran' prediction.

- Time will move quickly - Nope.

- Immoral deeds will be committed openly - Always have been. And 'immoral' is a subjective one. A muslim might think drinking a beer is immoral (it's not). A Christian would think forcing a child to marry you or killing a daughter in an 'honor killing' is immoral (it is).

- A mountain of Gold will be found in the Euphrates river - Obviously oil - That's a square peg in a round hole. It doesn't fit.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I'd like to point to what FlyersFan just said. And then underline it. And then stick large signs that point to it. "Undeniable facts" in religious scriptures tend to be no such thing.

168617

AngryCymraeg
reply to post by 168617

 

I see that you're not even denying that the fact that you're trolling.

You should check out all those historical facts from the Qur'an.. Maybe even ask yourself where Western science originated from because it wasn't a bunch of English Pagans sitting around at Stonehenge.

The English didn't build Stonehenge, so I'm not sure where you're going with this one.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Oh, I thought you were done but since your here, do you have any sources to back your opinion? credible one's btw, not Wikipedia? I'm getting sick of people citing from a webpage that University standards don't even recognise.

AngryCymraeg

168617

AngryCymraeg
reply to post by 168617

 

I see that you're not even denying that the fact that you're trolling.

You should check out all those historical facts from the Qur'an.. Maybe even ask yourself where Western science originated from because it wasn't a bunch of English Pagans sitting around at Stonehenge.

The English didn't build Stonehenge, so I'm not sure where you're going with this one.

I didn't say they built it... How about you re-read what I said.

168617
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Oh, I thought you were done but since your here, do you have any sources to back your opinion? credible one's btw, not Wikipedia?

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

The last time I checked anywhere at all, Italy was still not at war with anyone.

168617

AngryCymraeg

168617

AngryCymraeg
reply to post by 168617

 

I see that you're not even denying that the fact that you're trolling.

You should check out all those historical facts from the Qur'an.. Maybe even ask yourself where Western science originated from because it wasn't a bunch of English Pagans sitting around at Stonehenge.

The English didn't build Stonehenge, so I'm not sure where you're going with this one.

I didn't say they built it... How about you re-read what I said.

Yes, but what you said made no sense. Please clarify it. What possibly could connect English people with pagans and with Stonehenge???

168617 Maybe even ask yourself where Western science originated from because it wasn't a bunch of English Pagans sitting around at Stonehenge.

It didn't get started with Muhammad ... if that's what you are trying to claim. Islam gave a brief spurt of info to the science world from 850-1000 AD. But nothing much before or after. There were tons of scientific achievements from many other places prior to those 250 years ... and a whole lot since.

History of Science

And considering that Islamic countries do stupid things like this - Iran bans women from 77 high end degrees because they are afraid women won't want to get married if they are self sufficient - ... it's going to continue to dumb down at least half it's population and continue to provide zero scientific advancements to the world.

AngryCymraeg

168617
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Oh, I thought you were done but since your here, do you have any sources to back your opinion? credible one's btw, not Wikipedia?

edit on 16-4-2014 by 168617 because: (no reason given)

The last time I checked anywhere at all, Italy was still not at war with anyone.

The Roman's back in the day were not based in Rome... They were in Constantinople which is Turkey. So you shouldn't take the word "Roman" literally. It probably alludes to a society which is based on Roman Civilisation which today is. have a guess?