Judge Rules Living Off the Grid to be Illegal

Here comes another dangerous precedent from the overreach of the police state. You want to live off the grid? Too bad, it's illegal, which means they can ultimately imprison you for it. This isn't a national precedent yet, but it could become so.

Want to live off rainwater instead of the fluoride filled stuff that cities provide? Too bad, that's illegal. The city of Cape Coral, FL cited the "International Property Maintenance Code" in it's determination. And, that brings up a whole other can of worms, like legally binding foreign treaties and the US constitution.

Judge Rules Living Off the Grid to be Illegal

Speronis has been fighting the city of Cape Coral since November, when a code enforcement officer tried to evict her from her home for living without utilities. She has her own solar panels, and collects rainwater. The city contends that Speronis violated the International Property Maintenance Code by relying on rain water instead of the city water system, and solar panels instead of the electric grid. Speronis said at the time that she didn’t have a refrigerator, oven, running water or electricity in her home. She also does most of her cooking on a propane camping stove, and her electronics run on solar-charged batteries.

It seems the city was prompted to go after Ms Speronis after they found her to be promoting off the grid living. You have to wonder if this is intended to set an example and legal precedent for larger affairs. There has been a dramatic increase in the police state in the last 10+ years, and there is a steady march toward complete control.

[wasn't totally sure about the forum location...]

Were not slaves or anything.....

reply to post by pirhanna


Living Off the Grid is in essence the epitome of freedom is it not?

So take that as you will America! It's official, Freedom is nothing more that a word used to control us and make us believe we are free! Just as much as how they use "VOTING" as a means to make us think we have a say in our destiny!!!

"International Property Maintenance Code"

That^^^^is what we should all be looking at!

I've read this story before and the main issue was that she was using the city's sewer system without paying for it. They shut it off when she refused to pay her bill.
A judge already threw out the decision about the solar power and sewer. She still needs to pay the bill and use an approved water source.

www.orlandosentinel.com...

Soon they're going to start putting deer in jail for drinking water from streams. Or bears for pooping in the woods. Humans have natural rights at least as much as animals. Oh sorry you have to pay your slave masters your pound of flesh

OHHHhhhHHhhhh The Outreach!

"Sits on hands and bangs head off desk, while mumbling give me the power"

Must remain calm. The movement hasn't enough followers yet.

reply to post by VoidHawk


NVM

_Del_
I've read this story before and the main issue was that she was using the city's sewer system without paying for it. They shut it off when she refused to pay her bill.
A judge already threw out the decision about the solar power and sewer. She still needs to pay the bill and use an approved water source.

www.orlandosentinel.com...

Use an "approved water source".
I think that sums it up nicely.

That, and the citing of some non binding international code as precedent for illegality. There's a lot more to this than the local newspaper wants people to realize. The issue is way larger than the one lady and the city utilities in this case. They made sure it was, which is kind of the point. This won't be the last case of it's kind.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Here is the 2012 INTERNATIONAL PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE®

I hope this helps!

reply to post by pirhanna


If you show any sign that you don't need the government, they get scared that more people will follow and they will lose more power over the rest of the people .It scares them to think that people can and will be able to make it without the help of the government. It is all just a big power grab designed to push others into submission.

pirhanna
The city of Cape Coral, FL cited the "International Property Maintenance Code" in it's determination. And, that brings up a whole other can of worms, like legally binding foreign treaties and the US constitution.

The code is not a foreign treaty and is adopted voluntarily by local jursidictions.

posted last year

I think there are other threads on it as well.

What does she do with her pooo?

reply to post by pirhanna


I'm all for living off the grid. I just don't think you should be able to use your toilets and shower and then tell the city you're not going to pay the bill which apparently was multiple thousand dollars (I don't know how much your water bill is, but that's a lot of water - so she's either lying about not using it for anything other than the toilet and shower, or she's been using it for a very long time). And when the city comes to you with the intention of making suggestions to keep your home code-compliant, and you remain defiant, then I think you're setting yourself up for failure. That's when the case went to court.
I don't really care if she's using rainwater or not. I'm not sure the judge should either, and I imagine there is some legal grey area at play. The principle is that she used thousands of dollars of city water/services and then told them she had no intention of paying for it. In light of her checkered past as a broker taking $35,000 from clients, I find it hard to find sympathy for her. She's not living off the grid; she's living off other taxpayers.

Yeah. True living off the grid would probably be living outside of a city and not be taking advantage of any city-provided resources. Can't have it both ways.

reply to post by pirhanna


Lets get this strait, living off the grid is illegal under the international code of BS, Correct me if I am wrong but in the past didn't we all have parents or Grandparents or Great grandparents ect that lived off the grid for years and years. How can today society tell us how to live and that this so called International code is the law, then explain to me why so many in China, India, Africa, Turkey, South America all live off the Grid. What is the precedents to this decision?

To me we should all start email that county voicing our concerns about the BS that they are doing.

reply to post by pirhanna


Look, i totally get the gist of what you are saying here about encroaching freedoms. But she lives in a city. What does she expect, living in the middle of a city? She also cannot build a new garage, or replace her roof, with paying for a permit to do so. That is city living.

If she lived in the county, outside of the reach of municipal codes, i would totally have her back. But she lives in the city, and is within the auspices of municipal code. which is presumably the epitome of democracy in action, as it represents the selected "best interests" of the community. Essentially, the cities denizens have built the community that they want.

Its the same as people who pay into an hoa, then complain about how it constrains them. leave the hoa and live in the county. at least there you can pretend to be free.

reply to post by ZonedOut


I have extracted the following applicable sections of the Code, IMO, that this lady seems to have broken ...

SECTION 102
APPLICABILITY

A] 102.2 Maintenance. Equipment, systems, devices and safeguards required by this code or a previous regulation or code under which the structure or premises was constructed, altered or repaired shall be maintained in good working order. No owner, operator or occupant shall cause any service, facility, equipment or utility which is required under this section to be removed from or shut off from or discontinued for any occupied dwelling, except for such temporary interruption as necessary while repairs or alterations are in progress. The requirements of this code are not intended to provide the basis for removal or abrogation of fire protection and safety systems and devices in existing structures. Except as otherwise specified herein, the owner or the owner’s designated agent shall be responsible for the maintenance of buildings, structures and premises.

If the dwelling was built with working toilets connected to the citys sewer/water system, then by that very code she can not discontinue service.

Furthermore ...

SECTION 505
WATER SYSTEM

505.1 General. Every sink, lavatory, bathtub or shower, drinking fountain, water closet or other plumbing fixture shall be properly connected to either a public water system or to an approved private water system. All kitchen sinks, lavatories, laundry facilities, bathtubs and showers shall be supplied with hot or tempered and cold running water in accordance with the International Plumbing Code.

505.2 Contamination. The water supply shall be maintained free from contamination, and all water inlets for plumbing fixtures shall be located above the flood-level rim of the fixture. Shampoo basin faucets, janitor sink faucets and other hose bibs or faucets to which hoses are attached and left in place, shall be protected by an approved atmospheric-type vacuum breaker or an approved permanently attached hose connection vacuum breaker.

505.3 Supply. The water supply system shall be installed and maintained to provide a supply of water to plumbing fixtures, devices and appurtenances in sufficient volume and at pressures adequate to enable the fixtures to function properly, safely, and free from defects and leaks.

505.4 Water heating facilities. Water heating facilities shall be properly installed, maintained and capable of providing an adequate amount of water to be drawn at every required sink, lavatory, bathtub, shower and laundry facility at a minimum temperature of 110°F (43°C). A gas-burning water heater shall not be located in any bathroom, toilet room, bedroom or other occupied room normally kept closed, unless adequate combustion air is provided. An approved combination temperature and pressure-relief valve and relief valve discharge pipe shall be properly installed and maintained on water heaters.

SECTION 506
SANITARY DRAINAGE SYSTEM
506.1 General. All plumbing fixtures shall be properly connected to either a public sewer system or to an approved private sewage disposal system.

506.2 Maintenance. Every plumbing stack, vent, waste and sewer line shall function properly and be kept free from obstructions, leaks and defects.

506.3 Grease interceptors. Grease interceptors and automatic grease removal devices shall be maintained in accordance with this code and the manufacturer’s installation instructions. Grease interceptors and automatic grease removal devices shall be regularly serviced and cleaned to prevent the discharge of oil, grease, and other substances harmful or hazardous to the building drainage system, the public sewer, the private sewage disposal system or the sewage treatment plant or processes. All records of maintenance, cleaning and repairs shall be available for inspection by the code official.

Failing to comply with these codes may result in the place being condemned ...

SECTION 108
UNSAFE STRUCTURES AND EQUIPMENT
108.1 General. When a structure or equipment is found by the code official to be unsafe, or when a structure is found unfit for human occupancy, or is found unlawful, such structure shall be condemned pursuant to the provisions of this code.

*****

108.1.3 Structure unfit for human occupancy. A structure is unfit for human occupancy whenever the code official finds that such structure is unsafe, unlawful or, because of the degree to which the structure is in disrepair or lacks maintenance, is insanitary, vermin or rat infested, contains filth and contamination, or lacks ventilation, illumination, sanitary or heating facilities or other essential equipment required by this code, or because the location of the structure constitutes a hazard to the occupants of the structure or to the public.

I don't endorse these codes ... I am just pointing out what sections of these codes she may have violated ok.

IMO ... she is legally screwed.

I had a friend that built a house off grid many years ago and it was out in the middle of no where. Got permits and inspections and everything until he went for his occupancy permit and they denied it because he wasn't hooked to the power lines a half mile away. He told them again he was self reliant but they denied the move in permit.

He moved in anyway and he never had to pay taxes on the house. Saw him a couple of years ago and every year he gets a letter telling him to get his final permit and he throws it in the trash, It's a 125$ building permit every year and he says no changes from the last no inspection needed.

reply to post by mikell


I guess it varies from state to state.

But here, you can live on land in the county in any manner you deem fit. A tent, a dugout/cave....

we have "mancamps" that have popped up lately. Basically, just a storage building or shipping container converted into a very basic living quarter. A lot of folks move in and take up residence in one of these. They are all outside of the cities.

In Odessa (West Odessa) they had another tent city pop up that they shut down.

RV parks and trailer parks are a great investment. You have no labor overhead (and all the associated taxes).