Popcorn Time: Hollywood's Worst Nightmare Is Only Just Beginning

Krazysh0t

tallcool1

Krazysh0t

tallcool1
You know, another thought on this whole thing...if this piracy goes on unchecked and unpunished, then what motivation do the artists have to do movies or make music? Sure, there will be a few that do it "just for the art'...but they all are still going to have to pay the mortgage and buy groceries. All of the better entertainers will just stop. Why put so much energy into something and bust you butt for all that time when you are not going to get a cent for your efforts?

So then there will be this freebie site to download...nothing new ever. Only the old stuff you've already stolen.

There are ways to make money doing art outside of selling it to people. Musicians for instance can make a living touring from city to city doing concerts. Sponsorships used to be the way that artists made money before this whole industry arose, they could always go back to that.

There's nothing wrong with touring for money and stuff. They actually still do that, if you weren't aware! I just don't seem to understand why me being against stealing is such a minority opinion nowadays! I don't know why I am arguing against thievery and am losing...

I am very well aware of musicians still touring, those are the guys I have the most respect for. Do you know what else I admire about these musicians? They let anyone record and share their concerts. You can thank the Grateful Dead for bands and practices like that. Another thing about that is that the money is actually going to the people that MATTER, the actual musicians. NOT the scum who sit in a boardroom and dictate what the public should listen to.

The reason why you are losing this argument is because art isn't supposed to be a business, but we've let it become one. We need to get the business world out of the art world, or at the very least, minimize it as much as possible.

I see what you're saying, but I still disagree. Grateful Dead absolutely should be respected for their way of doing things and it really worked for them. Perhaps other bands should try the same thing (some probably do) and maybe they will be met with the same success and the same huge following.

But I am just going to have to agree to disagree with the stealing bit. I still don't think it's right to steal something just because you disagree with how the industry is run. And you not sharing the same opinion is just fine. I have a lot of friends who have different opinions and several who mock me for coming onto ATS - they're all still friends though.

So I'll leave it at us having different opinions and just drop out of this thread. I'm not going to change your opinion and you're not going to change mine. And that's OK.

bigfatfurrytexan

tallcool1
You know, another thought on this whole thing...if this piracy goes on unchecked and unpunished, then what motivation do the artists have to do movies or make music? Sure, there will be a few that do it "just for the art'...but they all are still going to have to pay the mortgage and buy groceries. All of the better entertainers will just stop. Why put so much energy into something and bust you butt for all that time when you are not going to get a cent for your efforts?

So then there will be this freebie site to download...nothing new ever. Only the old stuff you've already stolen.

So, the artist has no responsibility for figuring out how to monetize and protect their property?

What if it was a rancher....would the rancher not have a duty to keep his animals locked up and protected? And if a I had a goat that I let get free...how much complaining should I really do about someone deciding that they were hungry after finding this goat? If that goat were to wander into a road and get hit by passerby, the farmer may actually be liable for damages because of his goat (er, property) not being maintained properly.

No, the onus is on the artist to market their stuff. You can't just set your herd out to graze in open pastures, then complain that a few wolves are getting them. It is the herders duty to protect their investment/property.

OK - really this time. I'll make this the last reply and then drop out for real. Maybe.

I must admit that I am surprised to be on the opposite side of your opinion BFFT. I have starred so many of your other posts that it would be difficult to count them all.
I guess in a way you are right. My desperate clinging to believing in the integrity of humanity is obviously laughable at best. I am honestly stunned at the amount of support for stealing, and now you seem to be implying that it is the artists responsibility to make sure the laws are upheld. They hire (and pay for) the marketing people to market their stuff. They are artists after all, not marketing people. I don't see how your scenario is in any way the same as an artist who releases a CD for sale. If someone takes that music and posts it online illegally, isn't it the job of some sort of law enforcement agency to go after the theft?

I guess I honestly just don't get it. I see recording a friends CD and thereby stealing it (since I didn't do the right thing and go buy it) as wrong - regardless of who does what in what industry or with their goat or whatever. Just because you can do a thing doesn't make it right. I refuse to give up my integrity just because everyone else does and I am baffled by the support of stealing here.

Word things however you want and justify it however you want, but in the place where all of you used to have integrity - you still know it is stealing.

Soulhacking
If you create anything in this day and age that can be turned digital it will end up online and you will have no control over it. You might as well go outside and shout at the sun not to come out tomorrow. The world has changed and so has its values with the millennial generation and the information age. We are in a new age of prohibition and media is the new bootleg liquor because our technology has outpaced our archaic copyright laws. Aside from an EMP wiping out the net forever or the MPAA getting their way and making downloading a criminal crime punishable by death downloading will continue. You have no control, thinking you do is exactly like the industry mindset. The genie is out of the bottle. The question you need to ask is how do I get compensated for your works in this situation.

The MPAA would rather not adapt to new methods that would make them revenue and instead scream at the sun and have new laws made and none of it is going to work.

I am not taking control nor do I care what you do bud. I am only painting a picture of the future you wish to partake in. It's the NWO that so many fear on this site that actually like pirating. At first even they didn't get it. Destroy money as a way of payment. Then power can be centralized... It's not my view of wishing for EMP or wishing for NWO, I have separate thoughts. This is YOUR paradigm. The only thing against those 2 sides of the coin is personal value and cash changing hands.

How do YOU get compensated for MY work? I truly don't know what that means in any context, so that one you will have to explain in another way.

I split your post into 2 pieces.

What new methods do you propose? You are unwilling to pay for anything already so what business model accounts for that?

You are asking to shrink another market. I wish you guys start understanding before it's too late. It doesn't matter who is stealing and taking money as long as it is all moving. So by that you may think I mean you should steal no matter, but then who is moving money?? No one. Erasing value (that you think doesn't exists) means either less people need to exist or our standard of living has to shrink.

It won't be long now.

Socialism.
OR
Population Reduction/engineering.


It sounds like you think you own everything and these little bugs creating mass mind control are indebted to you. You MUST watch their content. How dare they try to Stop you... IT's YOURS!! Go ahead I have no philosophy that would make me think I had anything to do with you. Just own the future you are creating. You'll love it.

My problem with the movie industry and the sale of their films is this. If you buy ANY other product you have certain consumer rights to protect you. The product must serve it's intended purpose and not make any false claims about their product.
So then, why do we lose all those rights when we go to the theatre or purchase a dvd or blu ray. What they are selling us is, 'entertainment'. But what if i did not like the movie ? what if i wasn't entertained ? Will they refund me ? of course not !
What about the trailers ? These days, more than ever, i feel i have seen all the 'best bits' in the trailer. Some trailers are even totally misleading. How many times have you watched a film because you thought the trailer looked good but it turned out to be be trash ?
The movie industry seems to have a set of laws all to itself. If you are not happy with a product you should get your money back. Can you with a movie ? like hell you can.

KnightLight

Soulhacking
If you create anything in this day and age that can be turned digital it will end up online and you will have no control over it. You might as well go outside and shout at the sun not to come out tomorrow. The world has changed and so has its values with the millennial generation and the information age. We are in a new age of prohibition and media is the new bootleg liquor because our technology has outpaced our archaic copyright laws. Aside from an EMP wiping out the net forever or the MPAA getting their way and making downloading a criminal crime punishable by death downloading will continue. You have no control, thinking you do is exactly like the industry mindset. The genie is out of the bottle. The question you need to ask is how do I get compensated for your works in this situation.

The MPAA would rather not adapt to new methods that would make them revenue and instead scream at the sun and have new laws made and none of it is going to work.

I am not taking control nor do I care what you do bud. I am only painting a picture of the future you wish to partake in. It's the NWO that so many fear on this site that actually like pirating. At first even they didn't get it. Destroy money as a way of payment. Then power can be centralized... It's not my view of wishing for EMP or wishing for NWO, I have separate thoughts. This is YOUR paradigm. The only thing against those 2 sides of the coin is personal value and cash changing hands.

How do YOU get compensated for MY work? I truly don't know what that means in any context, so that one you will have to explain in another way.

I split your post into 2 pieces.

What new methods do you propose? You are unwilling to pay for anything already so what business model accounts for that?

You are asking to shrink another market. I wish you guys start understanding before it's too late. It doesn't matter who is stealing and taking money as long as it is all moving. So by that you may think I mean you should steal no matter, but then who is moving money?? No one. Erasing value (that you think doesn't exists) means either less people need to exist or our standard of living has to shrink.

It won't be long now.

Socialism.
OR
Population Reduction/engineering.


It sounds like you think you own everything and these little bugs creating mass mind control are indebted to you. You MUST watch their content. How dare they try to Stop you... IT's YOURS!! Go ahead I have no philosophy that would make me think I had anything to do with you. Just own the future you are creating. You'll love it.

edit on 21-3-2014 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)

Well for starters that was a typing mistake made in haste of writing the post. I've posted a couple things already in regards to music. Going into socialism and population reduction is over the top for this discussion. I don't give a damn if the market shrinks it will be replaced by more groups doing projects such as www.youtube.com... and not a corporate structure run by a bunch of greedy ceos.

Soulhacking
Well for starters that was a typing mistake made in haste of writing the post.

Gotcha

I've posted a couple things already in regards to music. Going into socialism and population reduction is over the top for this discussion. I don't give a damn if the market shrinks it will be replaced by more groups doing projects such as www.youtube.com... and not a corporate structure run by a bunch of greedy ceos.

I don't view it as over the top, but ok.

All you are saying is the reality of what is happening, but it doesn't change the concept of stealing. Why would you pay for the smaller outfits and not pay for the big ones? You won't pay for theirs either. You don't want me to say the next thing, but as money loses value (doesn't buy movies) your "buying power" is reduced. You are getting something and giving something in return.. You don't want "them" to not rely on "your $." There is no magic in the equation of what money is to make more value without more product.

You may notice I have never been in support of "the industry" I only disagree with you lowering your standards because they are bad. Giving up money as power and giving up your power to they. Don't like it on a personal basis.

I'll check the link though.

But ok as far as movies go we just disagree on what business models are ok. That's fine.

tallcool1

Krazysh0t

tallcool1

Krazysh0t

tallcool1
You know, another thought on this whole thing...if this piracy goes on unchecked and unpunished, then what motivation do the artists have to do movies or make music? Sure, there will be a few that do it "just for the art'...but they all are still going to have to pay the mortgage and buy groceries. All of the better entertainers will just stop. Why put so much energy into something and bust you butt for all that time when you are not going to get a cent for your efforts?

So then there will be this freebie site to download...nothing new ever. Only the old stuff you've already stolen.

There are ways to make money doing art outside of selling it to people. Musicians for instance can make a living touring from city to city doing concerts. Sponsorships used to be the way that artists made money before this whole industry arose, they could always go back to that.

There's nothing wrong with touring for money and stuff. They actually still do that, if you weren't aware! I just don't seem to understand why me being against stealing is such a minority opinion nowadays! I don't know why I am arguing against thievery and am losing...

I am very well aware of musicians still touring, those are the guys I have the most respect for. Do you know what else I admire about these musicians? They let anyone record and share their concerts. You can thank the Grateful Dead for bands and practices like that. Another thing about that is that the money is actually going to the people that MATTER, the actual musicians. NOT the scum who sit in a boardroom and dictate what the public should listen to.

The reason why you are losing this argument is because art isn't supposed to be a business, but we've let it become one. We need to get the business world out of the art world, or at the very least, minimize it as much as possible.

I see what you're saying, but I still disagree. Grateful Dead absolutely should be respected for their way of doing things and it really worked for them. Perhaps other bands should try the same thing (some probably do) and maybe they will be met with the same success and the same huge following.

The point of putting that link in the post your quoted was to show you a very LARGE list of different bands that do the recording thing that the Grateful Dead did. Just humor me and click on it. You don't have to look at every band or so.

But I am just going to have to agree to disagree with the stealing bit. I still don't think it's right to steal something just because you disagree with how the industry is run. And you not sharing the same opinion is just fine. I have a lot of friends who have different opinions and several who mock me for coming onto ATS - they're all still friends though.

So I'll leave it at us having different opinions and just drop out of this thread. I'm not going to change your opinion and you're not going to change mine. And that's OK.

Ok then, much respect.

sayzaar
My problem with the movie industry and the sale of their films is this. If you buy ANY other product you have certain consumer rights to protect you. The product must serve it's intended purpose and not make any false claims about their product.
So then, why do we lose all those rights when we go to the theatre or purchase a dvd or blu ray. What they are selling us is, 'entertainment'. But what if i did not like the movie ? what if i wasn't entertained ? Will they refund me ? of course not !
What about the trailers ? These days, more than ever, i feel i have seen all the 'best bits' in the trailer. Some trailers are even totally misleading. How many times have you watched a film because you thought the trailer looked good but it turned out to be be trash ?
The movie industry seems to have a set of laws all to itself. If you are not happy with a product you should get your money back. Can you with a movie ? like hell you can.

I don't think so. Movies don't make claims that are provable as you can always say you didn't like any movie. Someone else may like every movie ever. Subjectivity has no place in the law, but it may in business practice for whiny customers haha..

I'm one of the weirdos who If I buy food and don't like how it tastes it doesn't mean I am now owed money. I made a deal to buy food at the price they say. That's the entire contract besides an expectation of food safety. They made a deal to cook it. They never made a deal that my taste buds must be satisfied. I took the risk.

Guess what.. Most movies suck. You don't have to watch them. Oh and guess how I miss all the previews.... It has something to do with a TV. "I want to be SURPRISED and KNOW what I'm getting!!!!!" Life is Risk. Take it and reap the rewards or take your losses. That's half the fun.

Again you can't get money back on intellectual property. This goes along with copying.. Now if you are sold Godzilla and end up with princess strawberry or something, then you have a claim.

tallcool1

OK - really this time. I'll make this the last reply and then drop out for real.

Maybe.

I must admit that I am surprised to be on the opposite side of your opinion BFFT. I have starred so many of your other posts that it would be difficult to count them all.

Brother, we don't always have to agree. I am cool with that.

I guess in a way you are right. My desperate clinging to believing in the integrity of humanity is obviously laughable at best. I am honestly stunned at the amount of support for stealing, and now you seem to be implying that it is the artists responsibility to make sure the laws are upheld. They hire (and pay for) the marketing people to market their stuff. They are artists after all, not marketing people. I don't see how your scenario is in any way the same as an artist who releases a CD for sale. If someone takes that music and posts it online illegally, isn't it the job of some sort of law enforcement agency to go after the theft?

Musicians don't monetize CD's. That is for producers and their companies. Musicians monetize concerts and performances. That is how musicians made money for centuries. CD's and other recordings are a relatively recent invention.

Regardless....it is 100% legal for me to record those same songs off the radio as long as i am not making money off of it myself (i.e., selling it to others).

I guess I honestly just don't get it. I see recording a friends CD and thereby stealing it (since I didn't do the right thing and go buy it) as wrong - regardless of who does what in what industry or with their goat or whatever. Just because you can do a thing doesn't make it right. I refuse to give up my integrity just because everyone else does and I am baffled by the support of stealing here.

I am not supporting stealing. I am asking why the inconsistencies. In any other industry people are required to secure their own product. Why am I allowed to record the music from the radio, but not the internet?

Having gone to a few hundred concerts in my life, music piracy is something that the majority of musicians I have seen encourage among their fans. I still frequently attend concerts, recently seeing Papa Roach telling fans to either buy the CD or pirate the CD...but to get the CD and demand it be played on the radio.

Word things however you want and justify it however you want, but in the place where all of you used to have integrity - you still know it is stealing.

On this we will have our difference of opinion.

reply to post by tallcool1


Ding! Ding! Ding!

You are correct, sir!

If you support intellectual property laws being enforced by a coercive institution with a monopoly on the initiation of violence, with the power to steal, kidnap and kill, then, yes, you support slavery: your own.

I don't give a rats ass about the movies OR the industry.....what have they done for me?
Flake em all the greedy so and sos.....
The overpriced product they peddle and the crap it contains usually turns me off off off....they can keep their crap...im goin fishing or whatever.....

sheepslayer247
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Product placement is doing quite well these days, isn't it? It generates revenue and the viewer, although they may not notice, is being pushed towards a certain product.

I wouldn't put commercials in to the streams, but I would run "banners". Throughout the movie, they could run small banners that advertises for Coke or whomever pays for that ad. There are no commercials to walk away from and you are still holding the attention of the viewer.

Noooooo....! We hates banners...... Not more banners, please!

gwynnhwyfar

sheepslayer247
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Product placement is doing quite well these days, isn't it? It generates revenue and the viewer, although they may not notice, is being pushed towards a certain product.

I wouldn't put commercials in to the streams, but I would run "banners". Throughout the movie, they could run small banners that advertises for Coke or whomever pays for that ad. There are no commercials to walk away from and you are still holding the attention of the viewer.

Noooooo....! We hates banners...... Not more banners, please!

better a banner than to have to stop for a commercial

sheepslayer247
Honestly, with the ability to get almost anything you want off the web, it would be wise for Hollywood to start streaming their content for free and sell advertising spots during the stream. I'd bet that would be much more profitable and no more need to spend the money to fight piracy.

alrighty then how do we get you a job in hollywood/..i like you way of thinking

Personally, I'd rather pay for the content and then not have any commercials. I generally don't watch programs until they hit the net.

I don't use Torrent. Well, there was once or twice when the content I wanted was not for sale ANYWHERE. Like old music, for example. If I could have paid them for it, I would have. But they didn't want my money, so I didn't feel any remorse at downloading a rip.

These guys spend time and money making art for you. I personally know a few people that you'd recognize (how that happened I'll never know) and when I think about getting a Torrent I think "What would [person] think if I just helped myself to his work? He's got a lot of money now" it sort of changes the way I feel about it.

You ARE stealing from them. Mostly you're stealing from the managers and the studio, not sure I feel a lot of sadness there, but in some small way (TOO small) you're taking money out of your favorite star's wallet. Or favorite script writer. Or singer.

Bedlam
Personally, I'd rather pay for the content and then not have any commercials. I generally don't watch programs until they hit the net.

I don't use Torrent. Well, there was once or twice when the content I wanted was not for sale ANYWHERE. Like old music, for example. If I could have paid them for it, I would have. But they didn't want my money, so I didn't feel any remorse at downloading a rip.

These guys spend time and money making art for you. I personally know a few people that you'd recognize (how that happened I'll never know) and when I think about getting a Torrent I think "What would [person] think if I just helped myself to his work? He's got a lot of money now" it sort of changes the way I feel about it.

You ARE stealing from them. Mostly you're stealing from the managers and the studio, not sure I feel a lot of sadness there, but in some small way (TOO small) you're taking money out of your favorite star's wallet. Or favorite script writer. Or singer.

Script writer....you have a point. Which i have already shared my views on, so I won't repeat yself.

But the band? They benefit from piracy. The more their music is circulated, the more concert tickets and merchandise they will sell. The more endorsements they will get. Piracy HELPS musicians.

bigfatfurrytexan
But the band? They benefit from piracy. The more their music is circulated, the more concert tickets and merchandise they will sell. The more endorsements they will get. Piracy HELPS musicians.

Unless they're a session band, and don't tour well. In which case, it's a detriment.

If you're the Swampers or the String Cheese Incident, it's a blessing. Steely Dan-ish bands, not so much.

I know some guys whose name you might know who are running their own studios now, and doing the whole production thing as a service on the side for budding artists when they're not on tour. So for those guys, they release whole songs on their websites as a come-on, and the albums are all good music. That's a plus - I like the way [name] is doing that, even if you don't know he's behind it. He doesn't get much of a cut - he has a really nice recording studio in Muscle Shoals in a house in a quiet neighborhood, and can take you from the street to CDs in one swoop. But he doesn't advertise because he and the guy whose band he plays for when he's not doing his own work sell their stuff under yet another private label that his semi-boss runs. HE got tired of MCA screwing him over. I think it would be nice if a lot of people had performer-owned labels.

But I wouldn't pirate [x] or [y]'s music even if it wasn't their own labels. How would they feel if they saw me posting MP3's of their work? I think it would piss them right off, personally, and I couldn't blame them.


eta: you WOULD know them, actually, IIRC we're in about the same cohort. I do photography for them on location once in a great while.

This is really no different than going to movie4k.to, viooz.cco, putlocker etc to see a streaming film.

The reason why it's legal is currently it's only illegal to host the pirated file so the server takes the risk - viewers of that same file stream however are free to view it without legal consequences. It's a strange quirk of American Law that was never thought of when they wrote the laws due to the internet not being as prolific as it is now.

I'm gonna give this baby a whirl. Thanks !

I tried it. It buffers a little slow at times but if you have at least a middle of the line DSL it will work well.

The one good thing about this app I can see is people will be able to watch the movies without having to worry about web virus's, phishing scams and other malware looking for a movie site.

reply to post by Cabin


Hollywoods knee-jerk is always to try & shut these things down. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't go after the ISP's & try to get them to stop the .torrent protocol. I really hope that for once, they actually embrace this tech' & become pioneers themselves rather than always being reactionary & appear to be the greedy, money grabbing bad guys again. There's a reason why so many people laugh at the anti-piracy ads & the warnings at the beginning of movies you've bought seem like accusations...it's because most people are aware that when Hollywood is pleading poverty, somewhere else we are reading about how such & such a movie has just broken box-office records. No doubt this will be another opportunity they screw up. Makes me wonder who's really benefiting from this stuff?