A second date would be nice.

reply to post by dave_welch


My daughter met her husband through Match.com

She was able to get to know him through the site and then chatting

When they met at a dog park in the middle of the day to meet ( you can't be too careful with internet dating) he checked out as who he said he was online, but was painfully shy. Online he was witty. She called me after the date and said, he was so shy we barely talked.

She decided to give him one more chance since everything she learned about him online seemed to be what she was looking for in a man. He was so flattered she would go out with him a second time (other girls had given up after the first shy encounter. Also, while his pictures were real, in real life he is quite average looking) He was a totally different man on the second date, witty, charming and full on himself. 19 months later they were married.

This is not advice for you Dave, just a story.

If a person one dates for the first time is polite and nice, people should give them a second chance if the first encounter doesn't generate sparks.

reply to post by dave_welch


Dave, Dinner on a first meet is not the way to go. Ask the lady out for coffee, just to break the ice and to see if there is any mutual attraction, and go from there. It's a lot easier on the wallet, and if she is into you, you can plan a real dinner date or whatever.

Without knowing you personally, it's hard to say what is going wrong.

One thing is entirely possible that maybe you haven't considered... it's not you, it's them. Maybe you are picking the wrong kinds of women to ask out? Just a thought...

The only other thing I can comment on - as it has been over seven years since I've been single and dating - is that the women might be getting uncomfortable with what you consider to be "acting like a gentleman". I'm not a feminist, or especially sensitive about women's issues, but I remember when my (now) husband took me on one of our first dates and he was trying to push in my chair for me. Haha! I had no idea what he was doing and it felt really weird and stilted. Holding the door open is nice, if done in a casual way (not in a big grand gesture sort of way). Helping me get my coat off? That would also feel really weird. Not offensive, by any means... just weird. Some women may like it, but it would feel forced and unnatural to me. Now, obviously such gestures didn't pose any serious problems with my husband as we did eventually get married... but he made me laugh so hard that pop almost came out my nose. Now THAT is romance!! So I was more than willing to overlook any awkwardness with unnecessary chivalry.

It's such a cliche, but really... just be yourself. Also, seriously consider that you might be barking up the wrong trees. Where are you meeting all these women for dates - online sites? Maybe you'd be better served meeting women that are friends of friends, or join a meetup group that interests you. That way you can sort of know a bit about each other before even going out on the first official "date." It might weed out some that aren't really that into you to begin with.

Good luck. Dating is hard... I don't miss those days. It'll all be worth it when you find the right one! So hang in there.

If your avatar is a 'selfie', then I see way too many red flags. The way you dress and groom yourself tells a lot about a person, and I think you could benefit greatly from a female perspective.

I suggest you print out your opening post, invite the lady you spoke of on another date, show her your post and ask for advice. You could really use her friendship!
You need to learn how to be friends with women before you can be a 'Best Friend For Life' with only one.

There are many self-help books in the library on understanding women, and what it takes to have a good relationship. If you truly want a more personal relationship, start doing your homework!
There are lots of sites on the internet you can read, too. I don't think you need advice from us as much as you need more information on the big picture, so you can have a better understanding of what the basics of a good relationship are built on.

grandmakdw
reply to post by dave_welch

 

My daughter met her husband through Match.com

She was able to get to know him through the site and then chatting

When they met at a dog park in the middle of the day to meet ( you can't be too careful with internet dating) he checked out as who he said he was online, but was painfully shy. Online he was witty. She called me after the date and said, he was so shy we barely talked.

She decided to give him one more chance since everything she learned about him online seemed to be what she was looking for in a man. He was so flattered she would go out with him a second time (other girls had given up after the first shy encounter. Also, while his pictures were real, in real life he is quite average looking) He was a totally different man on the second date, witty, charming and full on himself. 19 months later they were married.

This is not advice for you Dave, just a story.

If a person one dates for the first time is polite and nice, people should give them a second chance if the first encounter doesn't generate sparks.

That was my point, actually. With work and bills and all that, I don't have the time (or money) to go out to the bars every night to meet women. I've been doing the online thing for a while and that reminds me of so many dates that started online. At least your daughter had the good sense not to decide to give up after the first date.

reply to post by nugget1


That's the problem though. Women want me for a best friend, just nothing else.

You want a second date? This is what you do. Arrange a second date before you go on the first one. What I mean is, plan something in advance and bring it up during the first date (provided you want a second). IE: you've got two tickets to a concert a friend backed out of. You were invited to a social activity, ask if she would like to join "them" not "you". Strike that, ask if she wants to "tag along". Makes it less "needy" because you're going with or without her anyway. You bring it up before you get to that awkward moment asking if you can see her again. Face it, everyone wants to be included in social events so they can add more people to their circle of friends. Do it under the radar where she doesn't suspect it's really a "second date" because after all, you just need another day to show how cool you are.

dave_welch
reply to post by nugget1

 

That's the problem though. Women want me for a best friend, just nothing else.

That's NOT the 'problem'. Your lack of any basic understanding of women, what they want and why is the problem.
You are putting the cart before the horse. If you want a relationship, you need to learn the basics of what is involved in establishing and maintaining one.

Most relationships start as friendship, and some progress to life-long exclusive friendship. You don't seem to want any female 'friends', so I'm not sure what you are looking for.

If you had a group of female friends you could ask one of them.....

Do you have a group of buddies you hang out with? Why not a group of gals? A single guy with a lot of gal pals sends a message to any woman seeking more than a casual relationship that he has the ability to be a 'best friend', and that can be very attractive in itself.

Change the way YOU look at women, and I guarantee they will change the way they look at you!

reply to post by nugget1

invite the lady you spoke of on another date, show her your post and ask for advice. You could really use her friendship!

Whaaaa? No no no, how could you possibly say ask her for advice? That's the WORST thing a man could ever do! A man is supposed to be confident no matter what. And for a man to put themselves in the "friend zone" right off the bat? No way m'am. The only time a man should put themselves in the friend zone is right before he senses she was just about to do that. Once a guy suspects it is going that way, immediately taketh away! Stop all romance and place her in the zone before she does.

reply to post by nugget1


No, it is the problem. I already have several female friends. I have asked them about it and they don't know what the problem is either, nor do any of my guy friends. Either that, or they won't tell me.

reply to post by dave_welch


Seems to me, you're just too nice... Nice guys finish last ye know...

Its sad but true... Theres nothing wrong with being nice, but too nice is headed for the friend zone...

Realize one thing IF anything... She knows IF you're gonna get farther then the first date within the first few minutes of meeting you...but that can change depending on how you are on the first date

Lets see...

1. Meet woman at prearranged location for dinner.

that's your first mistake... IF she thinks everything is "prearranged" you're boring before you even meet...

Start out by going for a walk, or a drink to loosen things up in a tense situation

2. Open door, pull out chair, allow her to order first, ect... you know, be a gentleman.

Nothing wrong with that... but its laying it on a bit thick...

IF you're a "nice gentleman" you're labeled a wimp... I know its retarded but this is how women think...

You "care" too much basically... you have to show her shes nothing special... Make her want you...

And I don't mean be rude, just talk to her like shes one of your friends instead of a potential mate...

and again, skip the dinner... or at least keep in on reserve til later that night IF you get that far... at least that way it looks spontaneous, even if it was planned she doesn't have to know that...

3. Try to have an interesting conversation. Learn about eachother, ect.

Well... you sound desperate if you want to know every detail about her life, or you're willing to give all the details of your own...

Try to keep the conversation light... Again, its a good idea to go for a drink.... its a relaxing atmosphere, theres lots of people around so shes not worried about you being a creep... and it loosens things up a bit.

4. Ask to see eachother again, get told "Only as friends, I don't see us dating."

Nuuuuu.... You are the prize here, not her...

Don't ask to see her again... Smile, say you had a great night... See if there is any small talk recapping the "Fun" you guys had...

IF theres none and she just bails shes not interested...

She will ask you to call her if she likes you....

the fact is she is already interested IF you got a date with her... IF nothing comes of it, you did something during the date to turn her off, or she just thinks you're not her type... but if that's the case, you probably did something she didn't like on the date...

Any tips? I'm getting tired of providing free meals without so much as a second date.

Drinks are cheaper then dinner LOL

More fun too...

FlySolo
reply to post by nugget1

 

invite the lady you spoke of on another date, show her your post and ask for advice. You could really use her friendship!

Whaaaa? No no no, how could you possibly say ask her for advice? That's the WORST thing a man could ever do! A man is supposed to be confident no matter what. And for a man to put themselves in the "friend zone" right off the bat? No way m'am. The only time a man should put themselves in the friend zone is right before he senses she was just about to do that. Once a guy suspects it is going that way, immediately taketh away! Stop all romance and place her in the zone before she does.

The lady stated that she wished to be in the 'friend' category. I ask 'friends' for advice, and gender is not the issue. He will be getting advice with a female perspective from one who wishes to be his friend.
So; yes,yes,yes!

Who knows? Maybe by becoming friends ,and getting to know each other better, she will want to move on to more than just friends.

reply to post by nugget1

Who knows? Maybe by becoming friends ,and getting to know each other better, she will want to move on to more than just friends.

Umm... no...

Theres no way out of the friend zone once you're there...

She'll be dating someone else before you even talk to your new "friend" again

garenteed

dave_welch
reply to post by nugget1

 

No, it is the problem. I already have several female friends. I have asked them about it and they don't know what the problem is either, nor do any of my guy friends. Either that, or they won't tell me.

Perhaps you are not asking the right questions.
Ask your several female friends what it is about you that keeps them from wanting to put you in the relationship category.

I suspect you may think you will find happiness if you find a special person. It doesn't work that way.

Expand your horizons a bit. Enjoy every day to its' fullest, doing the things you enjoy the most. Get out and do things, even if it's only going for a walk every day, or hanging out at art galleries, or whatever you enjoy. You are bound to meet like minded people who share your interest that way.

Last time: do your homework if you want a relationship with a classy lady. Women aren't attracted to men who don't have even a basic understanding of what makes them tick.

reply to post by nugget1

A single guy with a lot of gal pals sends a message to any woman seeking more than a casual relationship that he has the ability to be a 'best friend', and that can be very attractive in itself.

What you're describing is called "social proof" not an ability to be friends with women. Having lots of women around makes a woman wonder "why does he have so many girlfriends"? "There must be something about him I don't know yet" Hence, creating "mystery" That's what women find attractive.

Hilarious. Women don't even know what they want or why, it just is or isn't.

reply to post by nugget1

Ask your several female friends what it is about you that keeps them from wanting to put you in the relationship category.

Nonsense. Not being rude but that's a silly thing to ask. I will wager $100 right here and now that if he asks that question, the answer will be and will ALWAYS be the same. "You're too nice"

Girls/Men/Strangers/Co-workers with the exception of only very very close friends, will NEVER reveal that answer in truth. That's something we live and die before ever getting those questions answered.

reply to post by dave_welch


Heres another good tip if you're interested...

Find out when she was born... You can use their astrological sign to give you hints on her personality...

It actually does help...

I have one aim when it comes to women, please all five senses.

Sight : Make sure you look good, buy some new clothes, style your hair etc etc

Smell : DEODORANT and a heroic splash of cologne. (Put the cologne on your jugular, the extra heat makes it give off more of the smell)

Sound : One thing I've learnt is everyone likes talking about themselves. Just. Ask. Questions. Don't talk about yourself unless prompted, if you are then keep it short, sweet, interesting and CLEAN, not potty mouth...

Taste : CLEAN YOUR TEETH. If you do get that deal sealer of a kiss, you do not want her to regret it.

Touch : Important one, body contact is the next step beyond the need for these rules. My usual move would be something as simple as a touch of the upper arm when talking, or inviting her to a bar etc etc but don't do it at dinner, it's not appropriate there, save it for the bar. A bit of body contact will show you are comfortable and confident, it also opens her up to maybe hold your hand, or your arm etc.

I used to use this stuff to pick up girls at bars and take them home, but it will work just as well on a date.

I hope this helps.

reply to post by dave_welch




Can't count the number of times I have changed my mind over someone I thought

I would like over someone with whom I was at first unimpressed.


Dating should be FUN . . . your first date was too formal and long

drawn out, reading between the lines rather like a job interview! Always make the

first few dates casual and fairly short, leaving her wanting to know more

about you .... not your full life story all at once


@ VegHead said >>> "Meet women that are friends or join a meet up group

that interests you, (mutual interests??) that way you get to know each other

before even going out on that ''dinner date'"


Remember you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your 'Princess'... Lol.

Well, you may not like this, and I guess I don't blame you if you think I'm a jerk, but I wish I'd learned this bit of advice a very long time ago. I didn't and I suffered, and it was no one else's fault by my own mistaken sense of pride.

Ditch the mutton chops and the beard. Why? because it's too scraggly and not full enough. There's nothing you can do about it. It's genetics. Then dump the horn-rimmed glasses and get a pair with narrower, less-obtrusive rims. And I hope you don't dress like that. At least wear NEW jeans!

I know. I know. People will say, "Be yourself!" and I get that, but the fact is that's not working. One thing I always hated was wearing suits, or even jacket and tie. I just thought it was awful! But then someone took me aside and said, "You know, suits aren't bad; they are equalizers. If you see two well-groomed guys in suits, you don't know a bit about their background. One could be a hick from the woods who grew up poor. The other could be the son of a rich lawyer. The suit protects you from first impressions and makes you equal." I'm not advocating wearing a suit, but you get the point? You are trying to eliminate barriers. Insisting on "your look" because "it's the real me" is, frankly, an egotistical dead end that will hold you back.

Then you get to open your mouth, where there are a lot of things you can't control. Your accent, your grammar, and your education are apparent within a sentence or two, and faking it would be a bad idea. You simply can't pull off upper-crust England if you're from the Ozarks unless you have a lengthy education and have studied as an actor. Have you ever noticed that English actors trying American accents can be spotted? Their vowels are just a little too long. They are over-compensating in an attempt to mimic Americans and you can tell within a few words. There's nothing like it. An English actor playing an American is obvious and unique. A good linguist can pin down where you grew up within a few miles.

So you can't fake that part, though you can clean up your grammar, refrain from profanity, and slow down on the slang and colloquialisms. Once again, you are simply broadening your appeal so as not to let those kinds of things get in the way. The point is to ELIMINATE BARRIERS.

And then it comes down to the real you, and the one thing to say is don't be overly emotional and overly anxious. Relax and make the goal of the evening to have a good time RIGHT NOW rather than worry about the future. The fact is, if something is supposed to happen between you two, it will, and if it does you will be eternally grateful that none of those previous attempts actually worked out.