ATS Flea Market

I was thinking it would be cool to have a forum to buy and sell on ATS. I am a member of another forum that is geared towards ww2 collectors and they have really great forums for buying and selling.




I think it could be a great...........The ATS flea market.

reply to post by SubTruth


I, totally agree. We are all of the same mind and interests. You would come across some interesting stuff with members like ours and could really help alot of struggling members too. But please no bitcoins.LOL

reply to post by 13th Zodiac


We could use tinfoil as currency lol.

Nice idea!

P

While I agree that it would be a very interesting forum, it is against the Terms and Conditions:

15e.) Recruitment/Solicitation:

i) You will not use your membership in the Websites for any type of recruitment to any causes whatsoever. You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to disseminate advertisements, chain letters, petitions, pyramid schemes, or any kind of solicitation for political action, social action, letter campaigns, or related online and/or offline coordinated actions of any kind.

ii) You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to collect or ask for the personal information (data mining) about forum members, including email addresses and "real life" names, in any manner whatsoever, or for any reason whatsoever.

iii) You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to solicit members of the Websites on behalf of another message board, online community or competitor. You will not attempt to use your membership to encourage or lure other members in any way to other websites or discussion boards in competition with TAN. Doing so will result in removal of your Post(s) and immediate termination of your account.

Because of some very bad people out there (even though they are few and far in between) it would spell out headaches and even more aches in the lower back region... Not only would it be difficult to bridge our Privacy Policy, we would also have situations of misrepresentation. A member advertises a Grey alien for sale. You purchase it, only to discover that it's a Nordic alien. And I mean you already have 5 in your collection, so you'd want to return it. I.e. who takes legal responsibility for the transaction?

But that's just my take on it. Maybe an owner sees your suggestion and turn ATS into the next Ebay?

reply to post by SubTruth


what is wrong with ebay / gumtree / craiglist etc etc etc ????????????????????

it seems you want to " reinvent the wheel " - adding a layer of additional complexity to ATS , for no apparent gain

reply to post by SubTruth


Just be warned, there are monsters out there. It's easy to get ripped off online, especially through a forum. I've seen it time and time again. I ran my own survivalist forum where we had a a little market place. I had to reiterate that the section of the forum was "use at your own risk" and to only purchase things from long standing members who you trust and to never pay in advance.

Places like eBay has some security set up to try to make you safer, but you can still get ripped off. Craigslist? That's just as bad as any forum market.

But I'd like to see something like this happen. I don't see how this would make ATS more "complicated" as those who don't want to use it don't have to. It'd be a great place to sell conspiracy literature and other related items.

ignorant_ape
reply to post by SubTruth

 

what is wrong with ebay / gumtree / craiglist etc etc etc ????????????????????

it seems you want to " reinvent the wheel " - adding a layer of additional complexity to ATS , for no apparent gain

Because selling Grey and Nordic aliens would be more believable on ATS.

BTW - I have one of Saddam's nuclear weapons to sell. I bet Bush would pay billions.

Ever And Anonymous

My biggest concern with something along these lines has to do with member privacy and unintended consequences like those Gem and other members have pointed out.

Anything that involves money and products changing hands means revealing at least enough personal information to make that happen (even with bitcoins and the like). When that kind of information becomes associated with an ATS member account, it can have all sorts of potential negative effects, most of which probably none of us can foresee, and once that information is out of the bag, it can never be cleansed from the Internet.

Because of its potential value to cybercriminals, the kind of information needed to conduct online transactions and ship products to people attracts "phishing" attempts of just about every kind imaginable, and a flea market forum would draw them like flies (or fleas).

Even without a flea market forum, our staff removes such attempts from ATS constantly, and members are encouraged to alert us to any solicitations. These solicitations can be used to gather email addresses for spamming or give links to sites that may be used to farm IP addresses for geographic information or make members targets for security exploits.

Be wary (and let us know) of anyone who invites you to send them a PM (or sends one to you) to avoid making such solicitations in the public forums. The information you might reveal would not be private to them.

The nature of the topics we discuss on ATS is inherently sensitive. Many of us would not talk about these sorts of things in public or around people we know, and wouldn't necessarily share our honest opinions about them if we did, due to the possibility of ostracism or reprisal.

Thus keeping our real life identities separate from our ATS identities is extremely important, and financial transactions would conflict with that requirement.

Heck, it was years after I first discovered ATS before I was finally willing to volunteer an email address and register. I'm sure a lot of our guests who don't register are as reluctant as I was, and though I can say I'm very glad I'm a member now, I can't blame them for being cautious -- especially those of us who live in repressive countries that keep everyone under constant surveillance (in other words, basically all of us).

Granted, a flea market in and of itself might be fine for most members who opted in, but the risks are undoubtedly much greater than might appear on the surface.

Of course, if an owner were to think otherwise and come up with a method for handling such transactions securely, maybe it would work. But even if that were to happen, I would strongly advise against it unless it was sufficiently isolated from ATS membership -- which frankly means not associated with it at all (in other words, a "blind" transaction system).

Anyway, this is just my long-winded personal opinion, and Your Mileage May Vary, but my personal bias is always in favor of ensuring each of us remains as anonymous as possible. Nothing else, however desirable it might seem, is worth risking that.

ATS is like the polar opposite of Facebook: we don't want to know who you are, just what you think.

13th Zodiac
reply to post by SubTruth

 

I, totally agree. We are all of the same mind and interests.

Not even remotely true.
This place is so diverse and people who are polar opposites use and frequent this site.

reply to post by SubTruth


To all the nay sayers,

I buy and sell on many places online, ebay, craigslist, and forums of interest, and small specialty/niche businesses
and in the real world, flea markets, thrifts stores, estate sales, stuff in people's yards and local classified.

As long as you use caution and discretion (common sense) everything is fine.
Always remember it's ALWAYS "buyer (and seller) beware"

Reputation is everything either online or in a face to face transaction.
I only deal with people I either know, have good refelals, a proven track record.
or I've judged as trustworthy (a skill developed after years of practice)
a tried and true rule is "if its to good to be true it ain't"
and I won't buy.

If you can't already tell I see no problems in allowing buying and selling here.
keep all transactions outside of ATS oversight (just between "me and you". )
Act like grownups and everthing will be fine.

Oh! and I gots lotsa stuff to sell!

grubblesnert

If you can't already tell I see no problems in allowing buying and selling here.
keep all transactions outside of ATS oversight (just between "me and you". )
Act like grownups and everthing will be fine.

You may not have problems with it, but please bear in mind that using any ATS feature to solicit personal information from members or engage in any activity that violates the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use is grounds for immediate account termination, so please don't.

Your opinions on the issues, however (including this one, pro or con), are always welcome.

What about an announce forum where members and others can discuss the articles that they are putting up for sale/ or want to buy, but the items are sold on regular sites?

Danbones
What about an announce forum where members and others can discuss the articles that they are putting up for sale/ or want to buy, but the items are sold on regular sites?

If member names are tied to referrals, then it would have the same problems as the proposed flea market forum. If member names are not tied to referrals, then it effectively becomes a free advertising forum, with all the very heavy baggage that would come with it.

Both options would involve a bunch of conflicts with the terms & conditions, requiring some potentially tricky modifications to them, and though they are admittedly rather wordy, they got that way due to hard-won experience and a lot of legal advice.

There are plenty of online marketplaces already, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. While decisions about whether ATS should join them in some form or another are ultimately up to the owners to decide, I'm personally very happy we haven't.

As always, YMMV.

reply to post by Danbones


No! Let's keep ATS as it is. I have bought and sold on Ebay and also frequent militaria sites and forums. There is a world of difference between Craig'sList, Ebay and the others. To suggest ATS encompass those types of BUSINESSES is asking for a vast complication of the whole BUSINESS of ATS beyond--what I assume--is a rather bare-bones business model.

One great headache would be the complications of International importing/exporting: shipping regulations, custom duties, paperwork and restrictions, etc.

(Plus, I don't wanna mess with PayPal or an Ebay type of business anymore than I do now.)

We could end up with a serial killer in the mix........
(Kellogs maybe..............) (stupid smiley)

reply to post by Aliensun


I ment to avoid exactly that
i thought just a discussion forum about the interesting items and the quests for those items wopuld be fun

but i know a little about ecommerce, no need to re-invent the wheel here

Many other forums do have a buying a selling forums and it works out fine for them. But I do understand people hate change of any kind.



It was just a suggestion.

reply to post by grubblesnert

It wouldnt work BECAUSE of everything you say...mostly is way off.

Peoples credit cards tie into home addresses for delivery, real names, I.D. theft, International issues with ATS'rs in other countries.....the problems for abuse and legality are huge when you have a site full of anonymous members.

This site is nothing like EBAY and others like it, and in fact...is totally unique. It was explained in the replies above way better than I could here...

There's just far too many potential scenarios and situations for such an endeavor to ever become a viable or pausible consideration here on the boards.

LIABILITY being first and foremost on the list.

Multinational 'transactions' can become extremely complicated, once you consider The Need for 'return policies', 'shipping' and the like.

I've bought and sold on Ebay for well over a decade, and even in an environment designed specifically for those type dealings there are still problems that arise from time to time.... some even irreconcilable to a satisfactory level for both parties involved.

Craigslist as well.... because that typically requires direct person-to-person interactions at the 'time of sale'.

Exchanging of personal and financial information among Members on The Boards are two things I'd hope ATS [actually KNOW] ATS will never be involved in or with.

In the end.... even despite the best of intentions. It's just something that would ultimately prove a 'catastrophic eventuality' for certain.


I actually like the idea, on it's face and overall premise, but there's just far too many potential and likely pitfalls for it to ever become a reality, here.


just sayi'n