The Conspiracy Theory Is True: Agents Infiltrate Websites Intending To "Manipulate, Deceive, And De

reply to post by NullVoid


There's a difference between suspicion that something is likely plus anecdotal experience and outright evidence. The latter of the three has more weight than the prior two combined. I've mentioned this before but I used to be a moderator for a well known author that had forums on politics and conspiracy. We ran into a very curious proxy using poster that was involved in some of the political discussions and their behavior was enough to draw our attention. The guy slipped on using a proxy one time and his ip went back to Langley. He was on 9/11 and Patriot Act subjects. Having that experience really changed my view as to what goes on in forums and more online.

I think the reason why they can do this is because the internet is, technically, rather international. Using propagandists and disinformation on individuals in foreign countries isn't against the law and there is no feasible way to avoid having it be viewed by US citizens due to the net's nature. That's probably the rationale behind the legality of it. The author that I worked for was a British citizen and the forums were hosted in the UK so, although what the poster was doing was reprehensible in its own right, it wasn't directly propagandizing their own citizenry though there were plenty of Americans that also visited the site and had direct interactions with the individual. It's a grey area.

In defense of site owners, I know that our site owner opted to avoid confrontation because it could generate problems with the site and its owner. We had a "no touch" policy for that reason. The thing about any public forum, though, is that individuals such as that are basically competing with other users who are there on their own volition and will--not because it's their job. Such posters can nullify the effects of a "shill" or, at the least, tatter their arguments. Simply outright accusing somebody of shilling, however, does nothing, makes the poster look weak for engaging in what could largely be perceived as an "ad hominem" attack. Better to engage in good debate skills than accuse.

ausername

Char-Lee

ausername
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

If what you say is true, then everyone here must be mindless sheep.

Sorry, I've seen enough here to have more faith in people's ability to think for themselves.

If you've accepted the fact that you are inherently manipulable, then you have already given up. It's an internet forum, not a good tool for attempting to control the thoughts of others, and if you are that easily manipulated you really should not be online.

Really people, do you believe they can have this kind of power over your minds?

I have a degree in Social and Behavioral Science. What you need to do is look into this a little more. We like to think we are special and cannot be manipulated, but there is No human who cannot be manipulated.

You encountered one today.

I suppose you can consider me not quite human.

edit on 25-2-2014 by ausername because: fix quote.

The argument could be made that you were manipulated in to posting that.

The only things you can have control over to the point that they can never be manipulated are your precepts, and you can only have control over those if you disregard human thought and perceptions.

reply to post by dreamingawake


Interesting and well presented OP :up

Problem here at ATS is now whenever one of those crazy Mars anomaly threads pop up, and someone calls it out for what it is (it's a rock!)....I can all ready here the screams of "shill!"....."disinfo agent!"....."paid poster!" with a reference back to this thread

Topic of worry about the thread itself, with the use of "shill":

There's no doubt, It is used often, in a reply because of resorting to ad hominem attack, instead of debate or agree to disagree.

However, Some points:
This would have been shared. It is being shared on the net. Perhaps lead by example as a site when in discussion of this? As it surely will show on searches when people look the title of the thread.

This topic, of "shills", will be brought up as it has been, "Are there shills on ATS?" to the more similar and recent, "Conspiracy Theorists’ sane; government dupes crazy" that has been coming up since it's release late last year."



To absolve the problem of this type of name calling may perhaps lie in not suppressing a topic because it may cause people to over-think due to the topic being discussed as "confirmed", but to address more facets about why people will continually be heated enough on a topic to resort to going against terms.

In some cases, arguments where demeaning terms or judgmental terms seem to be encouraged because;
.They garner more attention- negative or not it's attention for some
.Stars given- rewards- not to say the system is horrid but as brought up even before on ATS, the system can be manipulated

In a way, the slides are displaying the relation of how when it comes to human emotion playing a big part in social networks such as forums.

reply to post by TrueBrit


I think this is what you're referencing:

Strange Loops

It's all about information control and logically, if one is active on a verbal battlefield, operating and controlling both sides of the battlefield would be the way to most direct things in the way that an entity wishes. Basically, one can control both sides of the argument/discourse. One can control/appeal to those who have doubts and control/appeal to those who believe. Logically, why would one leave either side untouched? Prisoner's Dilemma would be another one that could apply to this.

Think of some of the biggest sources of conspiracy theories. Maj. Gen. Stubblebine, for instance, would be an example. He has long been a source of conspiracy theory ranging from psychic warfare, remote viewing, contrails and more. He was also the commanding general of Army Intelligence and involved with command of INSCOM and ERADSCOM. So he talks about things that are of great interest to many conspiracy theorists. At the same time, his very position within the military demanded the ability to maintain secrecy. What's left when considering both of these facts is that either a. he is a valuable source or b. he disinforms and which one he may be is very, very subjective.

It's all game theory and it actually poses a huge problem for us because it risks muddling everything. Democracy inherently requires an adequately informed public. Period.

reply to post by dreamingawake


I just have one question how do i sign up???? Might as well get paid ive been doing it for free just tell me which side to be on and give me the check with lots of zeros.

WhiteAlice




It's all game theory and it actually poses a huge problem for us because it risks muddling everything. Democracy inherently requires an adequately informed public. Period.

That leads me to conclude that there is no democracy because lies and propaganda preclude information.

Learn how to spot the sock puppets and you can identify the agenda driven shills actively muddling everything.

reply to post by dragonridr


Exactly, right? How do you get THAT job?

reply to post by Cito



Yep, I see the pattern alright. The left needs to pay people to spread/defend their "causes" as their arguments really aren't compelling on their own merits.

dragonridr
reply to post by dreamingawake

 

I just have one question how do i sign up???? Might as well get paid ive been doing it for free just tell me which side to be on and give me the check with lots of zeros.

What happens to free speech when we're paid for it for pennies on the dollar? We sell our privacy and for what? Discounts at the local super market? Sometimes I think that how we lose our constitutional freedoms, whether expressly or implicitly written, isn't because we allow them to be taken away. Nope--we sell them.

I prefer to live in a country where free speech is free and isn't weighted by the thought of a possible paycheck but then again, maybe I'm just a stick in the mud who refuses to adapt to the changes in the world around her. I will say this though--if everybody starts getting paid for their "free speech", well then, the odds are that we're all going to very much get what we deserve.

Sorry for being Debby Downer.

Hijinx
reply to post by rickymouse

 

Any highschool grad, or entry level college student can make up those charts, and graphs. I really don't buy this, I mean I'm sure there are "agents" who look at various levels of internet communications to gather information about the populace, but it takes a lot to sway their opinions. For instance I am posting my opinion, you will either agree or you will not. You still make the logical decision on what you want to believe.

For instance, unicorns do not exist. There has never been a real specimen ever, outside of stories there has been no proof.

Yet some may still choose to believe in unicorns, or in fact agree that they do not exist. Simple!

Hey, I believe unicorns could have existed even though they have no proof of it YET. I cannot say they didn't exist. I highly doubt if they still exist though. Maybe they were actually unicorn goats, we just don't understand the writings.

Sure we could have someone posting fabricated charts and graphs, that is more of a possibility than there not being any "agents" steering the net. If I was in charge of this countries security I surely would have people working the net steering the perception of the masses. Since conditioning is evident throughout mans written history why would someone even think it has stopped. It is done in every culture in the world. Inventing the internet did not exclude this practice from being utilized.

If they don't have people paid to monitor and influence the people on the net, what the hell are they doing with all the money they spend. They better be putting it into the creation of these kind of jobs or someone is carting it off by the truckload.

Char-Lee

I have a degree in Social and Behavioral Science. What you need to do is look into this a little more. We like to think we are special and cannot be manipulated, but there is No human who cannot be manipulated.

edit on 25-2-2014 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)

I did not know that ATS had confirmed 'activity' on the site, but it's not so hard to know that there are some subjects that get special attention. I woulld suggest that it is possible to return the manipulation, or the deception. Difficult to talk about here though, otherwise you loose any edge you might have.

smurfy
I woulld suggest that it is possible to return the manipulation, or the deception. Difficult to talk about here though, otherwise you loose any edge you might have.

Yup. Excellent observation, little blue feller.

In a world of meme warfare, guerilla memesters are needed!

Some seem to be making the argument that to have solid evidence of such dastardly bastardization of social engineering and sociopathic psy-ops techniques somehow harms us and makes us less critical.

Admittedly it will become a crutch for some. For the rest of us: I say it's important information…just use it wisely.

I would hate to say i told you so...but i just knew this was going on all along, just like the NSA... But im sure will be told were still wearing are tin foil hats to tight..lol...Just remember the next time someone try's that crazy conspiracy theory trash on you. They are just trying to discredit you or just don't have a clue.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


We aren't allowed to use Shill and Troll as a direct reference to someone on ATS. But if you realise, or think someone is just that, don't engage them.

Char-Lee

ausername
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

If what you say is true, then everyone here must be mindless sheep.

Sorry, I've seen enough here to have more faith in people's ability to think for themselves.

If you've accepted the fact that you are inherently manipulable, then you have already given up. It's an internet forum, not a good tool for attempting to control the thoughts of others, and if you are that easily manipulated you really should not be online.

Really people, do you believe they can have this kind of power over your minds?

I have a degree in Social and Behavioral Science. What you need to do is look into this a little more. We like to think we are special and cannot be manipulated, but there is No human who cannot be manipulated.

edit on 25-2-2014 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)

you should start a topic on that

Bassago
reply to post by dreamingawake

 

Nice thread. Guess we all pretty much knew this was true but it's nice to have some evidence on the matter. Now I wonder if you'll get any naysayers pop in here to deny it and call Greenwald a terrorist collaborator or something.

Thanks for the link as well, bookmarking The Intercept.

NOT SO FAST!

Are you forgetting there's a bubble in the flow chart about kissing arse and false agreement?

Makes it all somewhat of a guessing game..'are they an ally?'...'are they setting me up for a fall by blowing smoke up my arse?' ...'Is his or her disagreement proof he or she's an agent?'...'Are they someone who genuinely disagrees with my point?'...if you let it get to you, you're soon mentally running around like a headless chicken, which is exactly the intention of course.

But still, it's a set of pretty old, tried and tested psychological tactics, just updated for the technology of the 21st century.

It's really no different in reality to what goes on in any average school playground when you strip away the technology.

This is no surprise to anyone is it though?

To add another level of paranoia into the mix folks, there are indeed agents called 'deep cover agents'...in other words, length of membership, reputation earned (or faked...) is NO indication of anything remotely approaching good standing. (this is also part of the 'headless chicken routine btw)

smurfy
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

We aren't allowed to use Shill and Troll as a direct reference to someone on ATS. But if you realise, or think someone is just that, don't engage them.

edit on 25-2-2014 by smurfy because: Text.

Yep. It's done on other sites though. If I suspect someone, though, I go after them in other ways. I'd never turn my back on them. I'd rather trying to beat them at their own game but, then again, that's why "issues with authority" was a frequent descriptor in my high school days.

reply to post by Gazrok


Have you tried searching paid forum posting on google?

ausername

Char-Lee

ausername
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

If what you say is true, then everyone here must be mindless sheep.

Sorry, I've seen enough here to have more faith in people's ability to think for themselves.

If you've accepted the fact that you are inherently manipulable, then you have already given up. It's an internet forum, not a good tool for attempting to control the thoughts of others, and if you are that easily manipulated you really should not be online.

Really people, do you believe they can have this kind of power over your minds?

I have a degree in Social and Behavioral Science. What you need to do is look into this a little more. We like to think we are special and cannot be manipulated, but there is No human who cannot be manipulated.

You encountered one today.

I suppose you can consider me not quite human.

edit on 25-2-2014 by ausername because: fix quote.

Or more unaware of the manipulation.