Europe Medical Care is Better than the US. Time to End the Myth.

reply to post by raymundoko


Erm, that OECD link about Employment protection seems to rank the USA near the bottom of G20 countries with regards to EPL (employment protection legislation), not the top....

This is the link the the lates report on EPL and the US is highlighted as having some of the least protections, not the most, with Israel and Turkey having the best EPL

reply to post by stumason


Here's another gem from Forbes, of all places, stating the U.S. is WAY behind even developing countries in the area of worker's right:

U.S. Lags

The U.S. is the Most Overworked Developed Nation in the World

According to the Center for American Progress on the topic of work and family life balance, “in 1960, only 20 percent of mothers worked. Today, 70 percent of American children live in households where all adults are employed.” I don’t care who stays home and who works in terms of gender (work opportunity equality for all – it’s a family choice). Either way, when all adults are working (single or with a partner), that’s a huge hit to the American family and free-time in the American household.

The U.S. is the ONLY country in the Americas without a national paid parental leave benefit. The average is over 12 weeks of paid leave anywhere other than Europe and over 20 weeks in Europe.

Zero industrialized nations are without a mandatory option for new parents to take parental leave. That is, except for the United States.

20somethingfinance.com...

By the way, those long compute hours are a direct result of corporations concentrating industries into suburban sprawls. Back in the 60ties, production was spread out in smaller towns, with over all far better conditions for raising a family. This kept home prices low, reduced driving times, so not as profitable for the corporations, so they delibertly created the suburban sprawls that have vastly increased profits.

They have us so busy running the rat race we don't have time to take good care of ourselves.

Here is the real kicker.

Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker.

reply to post by stumason


Sorry I meant to link the article that shows how many people get paid wrongful dismissal in the USA. I'll find it again later. Even in right to work states a person can sue if they feel they were wrongfully terminated. They win more than they lose. I meant from a judicial standpoint.

reply to post by raymundoko


Haha, sorry, I had to chuckle at the "wrongfully terminated"...

I'd hate to be "wrongfully terminated" by my employer, seems a bit harsh!!!

But yes, I am sure the US does pay out the most as you guys are famously litigious, whereas our payments tend to be defined in law as an amount relating to lost income and incurred costs only.

EDIT: Too add, in the UK at least, there is a strict process which employers must go through to "terminate" their staff - you can't be sacked on the spot, even if you deck your boss with a 2x4 - I am under the impression in the US one can be "terminated" quite abruptly, so maybe that explains the higher payouts etc?

DigitalKid

You are aware Walmart just rebranded to ASDA which is one of the biggest supermarkets in the UK right?

There are ASDAS all over here.

ASDA existed before, Walmart bought them, and didn't change the business model much other than sharing the usual plastic chinese goods and clothing suppliers they had in place already.

reply to post by 8675309jenny


Indeed - the clue is in the name.

ASDA = Associated Dairies and originally founded in Yorkshire, I believe....

reply to post by stumason


Yes. If you're in a right to work state which labor unions hold no power in you can be terminated at any time WITH CAUSE even if that cause is stupid. Then you can sue. So many companies here are scared of being sued they have tons if rules on how to perform terminations. My company for example requires 3 verbal and 1 written warning before termination. Execs and managing directors are usually handled with a forced resignation.

raymundoko
reply to post by poet1b

 

You are so uneducated on this matter.

The free market made the USA the greatest country on earth. Those who lead the country failed the free market, not the other way around. What we are moving towards is crony capitalism.

Your argument about the failing of the free market is INVALID since 3 of the 6 countries you listed have a more free market than the USA and are considered the most free market economies in the world:

www.heritage.org...

Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland.

So yeah. Good one there guy. You totally showed the free market how bad they suck...by using them as an example of how well they do.

I completely agree with you about free market capitalism, with ONE major exception.

If I put a gun to your head and say you're going to buy this OR ELSE... we are no longer talking about any "free" choice.

Your health IS your LIFE, and holding one hostage by threat of bad health/death is not a free market. It never ever ever ever will be. Those countries you listed have great free market economies, but they do not have a capitalist HEALTHCARE system.

WHat I have come to realize, is that if we build a proper healthcare system in the US, like most if Europe has, it will improve the quality of life for EVERYONE, which in turn lower crime, lowers unemployment and increases PRODUCTIVITY massively!!

I am quite a big proponent of the free market (Atlas Shrugged is one of my favorite books), but PROPER COMPASSIONATE healthcare and capitalism are incompatible. The healthcare costs per person in the US could pay for 2-3 people easily if we cut out the middlemen and just got the people the care they needed.

raymundoko
reply to post by stumason

 

If it's workers were treated better? You know we have the best employee protection laws in the world right???

You are kidding, right? If you look at the pdf's linked from the page you linked to, the US certainly doesn't offer the best employee protection laws. Actually, let's talk real world. I work for a global country with its headquarters in the US. recently a restructuring program took place. In the UK staff cuts were almost all voluntary with negotiated payment settlements, assistance for training for new jobs etc (I believe this was the same in most other countries). Colleagues in the US were told that they didn't need to come into work the next week and received the minimum severance. You call that the best in the world? My American colleagues call it fairly savage the level of protection that they have when a reduction in force exercise takes place.

raymundoko
reply to post by stumason

 

But minimum wage workers in the USA pay LITTLE TO NO TAXES AT ALL AFTER REBATES! They also often receive food stamps, medicare/medicaid and in extreme situations section 8. Whereas minimum wager workers in other countries pay taxes ranging from 20-42%. So our minimum wage earners actually have a higher effective pay. Germany for example has the same poverty rate as the USA, 15% and that is the lowest poverty rate in EU countries.

Wrong, in the UK you do not pay income tax on the first £10,000 you earn which is fairly much at the minimum wage level - you were referring to income tax, right?

reply to post by raymundoko


Among the many rights stripped away from people in the US, the ability to go to court to sue someone was essentially taken away under Newt's contract on American.

You live in a fantasy world.

reply to post by 8675309jenny


It is really sad how so many people have been convinced by pure propaganda myths into supporting policies that are against their own best interests.

You won't find Atlas working Wall Street.

uncommitted

raymundoko
reply to post by stumason

 

If it's workers were treated better? You know we have the best employee protection laws in the world right???

You are kidding, right? If you look at the pdf's linked from the page you linked to, the US certainly doesn't offer the best employee protection laws. Actually, let's talk real world. I work for a global country with its headquarters in the US. recently a restructuring program took place. In the UK staff cuts were almost all voluntary with negotiated payment settlements, assistance for training for new jobs etc (I believe this was the same in most other countries). Colleagues in the US were told that they didn't need to come into work the next week and received the minimum severance. You call that the best in the world? My American colleagues call it fairly savage the level of protection that they have when a reduction in force exercise takes place.

Hopefully goes without saying I meant global company, not country, missed the timeframe to edit my original post.

reply to post by poet1b


Yes. College is such propaganda. Only it's usually propaganda leaning towards the left. Except when it comes to business and finance, then they are suddenly to the right...because they know that's the best way for a business to succeed.

Countries that have embraced the free market FIRST have ALWAYS had more equality and better economies. Countries who have had socialistic markets have always had worse economies and LESS equality. History is the teacher. You are the student who fell asleep.

Keep in mind there has never been a truly free market. They have been Mixed Markets. The best example of a mostly free mixed market was Hong Kong prior to the Chinese re-taking control. It was THE best economy in the world, with the lowest rate of unemployment and poverty in the world. Since China took over they went from a 5% poverty rate to a 19% Poverty Rate. While China attempts to act like Hong Kong is still a mostly free market, it is no secret they manipulate and control their market.

So Hong Kong is a great example of the Free Market equalizing the gap between the rich and poor, raising people out of poverty. However, once a communist regime took over they turned it into a crony capitalist market 1 in 5 people in Hong Kong (People who were doing quite well in 1997) are now below the poverty line.

The very internet you are using right now is a perfect example of a totally unregulated free market. Without the concept of a free market you would not be using this very site.

reply to post by uncommitted


I also work for a global company based in the US. We just let go 480 people. They were given 90 days notice. It sounds like you work for a bad company.

So I don't know how many people got let go at your company, but it sounds like they broke the law if it was a mass layoff. They are required by law to give 30 days notices:

www.dol.gov...

raymundoko
reply to post by uncommitted

 

I also work for a global company based in the US. We just let go 480 people. They were given 90 days notice. It sounds like you work for a bad company.

So I don't know how many people got let go at your company, but it sounds like they broke the law if it was a mass layoff. They are required by law to give 30 days notices:

www.dol.gov...

You misunderstand, the notice was paid, but there was no looking for other jobs in the company,no training etc. No laws as such were broken, it just showed that the US way was to keep it as close to the bone as possible.

reply to post by uncommitted


Right, but you said they were given a weeks notice. That is illegal. This is one of those great times where the good old US Judicial system would come into play and force the company to pay those workers for lost time.

Now if it was only a few employees in the USA (like say 1-10) then yes, they can be laid off without notice. It sucks, but they get unemployment. When you are on unemployment you can also get free training provided by Uncle Sam.

jobs.aol.com...
federalstudentaid.ed.gov...

Unfortunately most people on Unemployment don't make use of those resources even though HR dept's are legally obligated to go over those options in exit interviews.

raymundoko
reply to post by uncommitted

 

Right, but you said they were given a weeks notice. That is illegal. This is one of those great times where the good old US Judicial system would come into play and force the company to pay those workers for lost time.

Now if it was only a few employees in the USA (like say 1-10) then yes, they can be laid off without notice. It sucks, but they get unemployment. When you are on unemployment you can also get free training provided by Uncle Sam.

jobs.aol.com...
federalstudentaid.ed.gov...

Unfortunately most people on Unemployment don't make use of those resources even though HR dept's are legally obligated to go over those options in exit interviews.

edit on 27-2-2014 by raymundoko because: (no reason given)

No, sorry, I think you misunderstand. They were told not to come back to work but were paid whatever notice they were due. It's not that they were laid off, but the lack of any support to help them back into work, or any reasoning why they were chosen to lose their job.

Anyway, corporations do what corporations do, just please don't paint America as being a shining example.

reply to post by raymundoko


First off, I didn't say college was propaganda, but colleges do put out propaganda.

Hong Kong has never had the best economy in the world, just more propaganda. Hong Kong is a city, not a country. Compare Hong Kong to other cities, and it is not exceptional in any way.

The US economy did far better when it had effective regulation, and all attempts to create a free market lead to economic crisis, and history clearly demonstrates this.

Hong Kong might be better for the rich, but for average people it is far worse.

www.dailymail.co.uk... opulated-cities.html

Crammed into wire mesh boxes the size of coffins, these are the penniless people forced to live like animals in one of the world's richest cities.
Hong Kong's forgotten 'caged dogs' pay about HK$1,500 a year (£117) to live in a city whose small size and high population pushes the rent on even a tiny flat far out of the reach of its poorest residents.
The poverty-stricken people keep their clothes and photos of loved ones next to filthy blankets in their cages, which measure 6ft long and between 2 1/2 ft and 3ft wide and are stacked on top of each other.
Some of them cannot stretch their legs out straight and are forced to sleep curled up in a ball.

Maybe this is your idea of the good life, but I would rather have the 6 weeks vacation a year, and decent medical coverage.