We Are Not a Democracy! We Do NOT Want to Spread Democracy!

Of all governments through recorded history, the Monarchy is the governing body that has lasted the longest in any one stretch.

reply to post by eManym

Indeed. And it works from generation to generation.
Is that a good thing?

Exactly. This country was founded as a Constitutional Republic. The articles of the constitution are only meant to have smallamendments to the originals to reflect the changing times not massive changes to empower the federal government or similar entities through it. The power is supposed to be to the people through these. This country isn't supposed to be a democracy where the officials can vote on whatever agenda they agree on, but vote in accordance to the will of the people, not the political party they are supposed to represent. Yes, fire all the elected officials who ignore the peoples voice. Fire all unelected officials who were placed in their positions. There is no more room in this nation for those who seek to destroy the very foundations on which it was erected. If the officials can't abide by the articles of the constitution, they should step down from office or be publicly tried and hanged for high treason. 'nuff said

reply to post by Phage

The one thing that stood out about that site is this (emphasis mine):

The distinction between our Republic and a democracy is not an idle one. It has great legal significance.

I see a bit of bias there.

reply to post by EyesOpenMouthShut

Yes, fire all the elected officials who ignore the peoples voice.

Only one way to do that.

Fire all unelected officials who were placed in their positions.

That's a lot harder to do. Even when you accomplish (see above) you have government workers' unions to deal with.

reply to post by EyesOpenMouthShut

reply to post by daskakik

Yeah. Thus the "interesting interpretation" that I put in there.

reply to post by Phage

A Monarchy is a good thing as long as the people feel they are getting their fair share. When that breaks down because of lack of resources or greed then it is bad and another form of government takes over. Be it Democracy, Republic, Dictatorship, Communism, or a combination, it depends on what the motivation is.

reply to post by Phage

Sure but I think that they are trying too hard to create a difference where one doesn't exist.

The dictionary definitions show a huge range of what is a republic with the only system that seems to be left out are monarchies.

reply to post by daskakik

Not huge.
Representation chosen by the populace. How is that choice made? Presumably by a majority vote. How else?

It's really a cool idea when you look at it. "I'll vote for you because you're going to vote for the things I want you to vote for." Except that there are thousands of people voting for you and what they want is different for each (unless you're into extremes). So what do you end up with? Decisions based on a mix of ideas about what's "best" rather than just more people wanting it.

Well, that's the way it's supposed to work. And if it works that way it would seem to be very workable.

reply to post by Phage

I saw this

1.a form of government in which the people or their elected representatives possess the supreme power.

and thought that that would include direct democracy.

There seems to be a trend in the US to have it mean only a form of government that is indirectly democratic but even then it doesn't take away the democratic aspect of the US government.

reply to post by Phage


I guess Wikipedia is about as accurate as everyone says it is because that's not what it says it is. I'll go for your definition. It seems less shrouded by mysticism.

reply to post by daskakik

That definition seems to be derived from the somewhat dated (1604) French république:

"state in which supreme power rests in the people

dictionary.reference.com...

In a republic the supreme power is indeed in the hands of the people, through those they elect.

Well i decided i was going to give some quotes i always found interesting. because it shows the contrasts

The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting.
Charles Bukowski

Nobody will ever deprive the American people of the right to vote except the American people themselves and the only way they could do this is by not voting.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
Emma Goldman

Voting is the most precious right of every citizen, and we have a moral obligation to ensure the integrity of our voting process.
Hillary Clinton

Thinking isn't agreeing or disagreeing. That's voting.
Robert Frost


And then now a couple that makes you wonder whats going on.

Our DNA is as a consumer company - for that individual customer who's voting thumbs up or thumbs down. That's who we think about. And we think that our job is to take responsibility for the complete user experience. And if it's not up to par, it's our fault, plain and simply.
Steve Jobs

In my lifetime, we've gone from Eisenhower to George W. Bush. We've gone from John F. Kennedy to Al Gore. If this is evolution, I believe that in twelve years, we'll be voting for plants.
Lewis Black

Every citizen of this country should be guaranteed that their vote matters, that their vote is counted, and that in the voting booth, their vote has a much weight as that of any CEO, any member of Congress, or any President.
Barbara Boxer

Voting is a right best exercised by people who have taken time to learn about the issues.
Tony Snow

Well, first of all, I think that a lot of the voters who are voting for the tea party candidates have really good impulses. That is, they believe that for years and years and years, the people with wealth and power or government power have done well and ordinary people have not. That's true.
William J. Clinton

I'm the kind of person that believes there's a part of your voting that has to be purely on principle, and there's a part that has to be on strategy.
Michael Moore

American youth attributes much more importance to arriving at driver's license age than at voting age.
Marshall McLuhan

I think are problem lies somewhere in these quotes what do you think?

Phage
In a republic the supreme power is indeed in the hands of the people, through those they elect.

That is just one example of a republic. Like I said the term applies to other forms as well and why wouldn't the original meaning of the word apply?

reply to post by daskakik

That's the French term. Of course it doesn't apply and it isn't the original.
You want the original?
en.wikipedia.org...


Whoops. Never mind.

reply to post by Phage

Sorry, but that is illogical. The english term derives from the french which, comes from the latin "res publica".

Since the government in question (the US) was established in the 18th century, I would think that the 17th century definition would have been what was being referred to when the constitution guarantees a republican form of government and not some 20th century reinterpretation.

I also don't see how a 19th century state can be "the original" but it doesn't matter because I was reffering to the original definition of the term. I don't know what you were aiming for with that link.

reply to post by daskakik


yeah.
i know.

You have one dictionary definition that says a republic can be a direct democracy.

Phage
You have one dictionary definition that says a republic can be a direct democracy.

That you posted.

There are other references but it is illogical to insist on only using the modern interpretation because it wasn't the definition that the founding fathers were working with.

I am unaware of any other group, outside of the "we are not a democracy" crowd that even tries to redefine the term.

ETA: Actually if the the term applies to direct democracy or not isn't even the topic of the OP. Like I said before, it doesn't change the fact that the US gov is a Liberal democracy with the power of the people exercised through their elected representatives.

reply to post by daskakik

I am unaware of any other group, outside of the "we are not a democracy" crowd that even tries to redefine the term.

Refine. Not redefine.
To reiterate: democracy is a broad term. A republic is a type of democracy.
There can be a true democracy which is not a republic. There can't be a true republic which is not a democracy.

it doesn't change the fact that the US gov is a Liberal democracy

Another refining of the general terminology. Not sure capitalizing liberal is appropriate though.