Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

daskakik
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

I have read the entire thread and I don't recall anyone saying that mass media doesn't shape perceptions.

The part that is just an opinion on your part is you thinking that it is leading to degeneracy and stupity because you see things in todays world as degenerate and stupid while turning a blind eye to the degeneracy and stupidity that has always existed, even in your precious US of the 50's.

Man I wish I could give you a thousand stars for this. The OP is trying to turn the problems of our country into a religious one, a religion he isn't even part of, yet it never was a religious issue. It was just an issue of stupid people, religious or otherwise, doing and being entertained by stupid things.

skorpion said -
''The only marriage that prevailed across the world for thousands of years was not the gay weddings being conducted by certain ''churches''

Which is another way of saying that Christianity of old is correct because it is thousands of years old.

see the underlined? I was clearly making a reference to marriage norms ''across the world''. Not just Christianity.

sk0rpi0n
skorpion said -
''The only marriage that prevailed across the world for thousands of years was not the gay weddings being conducted by certain ''churches''

Which is another way of saying that Christianity of old is correct because it is thousands of years old.

see the underlined? I was clearly making a reference to marriage norms ''across the world''. Not just Christianity.

You mean like this?

History of same-sex unions

Although state-recognized same-sex unions are becoming more accepted, there is a long history of same-sex unions around the world. Various types of same-sex unions have existed, ranging from informal, unsanctioned, and temporary relationships to highly ritualized unions that have included marriage.[1]

Just in case you didn't notice it, I bolded the part that contradicts this part of your post:

I was clearly making a reference to marriage norms ''across the world''. Not just Christianity.

Christian Europe isn't the only place in the word that morality exists. Homosexual marriage isn't a new phenomenon. Though I already know you are going to dismiss this with some weird explanation on why this isn't proof of anything. I mean Christian bigotry for the last 1500 years or so CLEARLY trumps history dating back 5000 - 6000 years.

@daskakik....I have read the entire thread and I don't recall anyone saying that mass media doesn't shape perceptions.

Good. Because there is no denying it. What has been denied and discounted is Joe Biden admitting that the media played a major role in shaping peoples perceptions about gay marriage. Meaning, unelected powers basically rewrote societal norms and got Americans to like it. Which is what the OP is about.

Grimpachi
I tell you what is pretty damn stupid about this thread, its that all these bible pushers are the product of social programing, and they don't even know it.

What is even worse is that they think the bible is moral. The bible is full of filth and indecency towards mankind. They want to cherry pick pieces of it and hold them up as the backbone of their religion well as far as I know there is no secret decoder ring which says what parts are true or which parts are embellished.

Sorry but the holly rollers don't have any high ground to stand on preach. Their religion was forced on the world through wars and inquisitions their entire faith is bathed in blood of the innocents. There is nothing moral about the bible.

Ya know, I actually agree with this, but not because of what people believe, that's their own business and I'll defend their right to believe it as long as they understand it is a belief system that has been hacked and hacked again, and as long as they don't insist everyone must support their causes, which is the case with Christian tax payers paying legislators to legislate gay marriage, which they believe is an abomination. At least I don't know any Christians running around with law books requiring non believers to fund religious projects or trying to enact legislation to make that happen. What's good for the goose and all that.

Bickering aside, there's a chance that sooner or later we'll all get to find out who holds the high ground, unfortunately we have to be dead first, which is why the ancients (well, some of them anyway) simply called it the great mystery. For the living, the meaning of death can never be more than the ultimate mystery. But some things about life and living that you just know in your gut make sense, book or no book.

But when it comes to a book written by man that details good life ways, you just about can't do better than the Qur'an whether you're Muslim or not, but that's just me. Well, okay, its not just me. And its funny how so many people are out there trying to rewrite and redefine and misconstrue that one, too, mostly the same types who translated, transcribed, rewrote and misconstrued the Bible multiple times through history for political reasons.

sk0rpi0n
Good. Because there is no denying it. What has been denied and discounted is Joe Biden admitting that the media played a major role in shaping peoples perceptions about gay marriage. Meaning, unelected powers basically rewrote societal norms and got Americans to like it. Which is what the OP is about.

But the OP is wrong because there are huge segments of the population that don't like it so, it would seem that while media can present ideas to those exposed to it, in the end it is up to them to accept the ideas or not.

sk0rpi0n

@daskakik....I have read the entire thread and I don't recall anyone saying that mass media doesn't shape perceptions.

Good. Because there is no denying it. What has been denied and discounted is Joe Biden admitting that the media played a major role in shaping peoples perceptions about gay marriage. Meaning, unelected powers basically rewrote societal norms and got Americans to like it. Which is what the OP is about.

What is your point with this? Elected officials don't determine societal norms anyways. Societal norms are determined by, wait for it... society.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


If people could embrace gay people into their culture without modern media [as history shows] then it stands to reason we could today as well. That puts a HUGE hole in your idea that the ONLY reason we would accept it today is if we were brainwashed by these mysterious agencies.

Not only are you claiming this masterful manipulation is the only reason we would believe, you're claiming it applies to all of us even if we don't watch TV.

That's an extraordinary claim and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You gave us one example of Joe Biden stating the obvious that media plays a role in shaping beliefs.

Considering everything we have presented against your OP do you not feel the slightest amount of embarrassment that's all you've been able to muster?

Apparently you don't. I suspect because you're oblivious to what's going on.

…so you go on thinking you've got a solid theory and we are all brainwashed. If this twisting of reality gives you religious affirmation then I guess that's all that matters, eh?

reply to post by frazzle

At least I don't know any Christians running around with law books requiring non believers to fund religious projects or trying to enact legislation to make that happen.

Well it happens. Doing a quick search I came up with two very recent examples.

Alabama GOP introduces legislation requiring prayer in public schools

Ohio Christian University collects public school dollars to teach ‘biblical truth’ as its president and lobbyist sit on state school board

The problem isn't religion the problem is the people in that religion. They think themselves as Christian soldiers fighting a holly war.

reply to post by Grimpachi


And I will agree that its wrong for either party to ask for funding or support. That's the whole point, if its wrong for one, its wrong for the other.

@Krazysh0t....

What is your point with this? Elected officials don't determine societal norms anyways. Societal norms are determined by, wait for it... society.

Except in the case presented in the OP, the society was manipulated into redefining marriage and family and into accepting degeneracy as normal. The norms and values that society had originally decided for itself was reversed or junked. When I say ''elected'' = powers representing the will of the people... as opposed to powers working behind the scenes to distort traditional values upheld by the majority of society.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Your definition of degenerate is flawed though. Your ENTIRE premise relies on Christian values being correct. You say that they are correct because they have been in place for hundreds of years. You also say that they are correct because it is what the majority believes. All three of those statements are logical fallacies. I submit a challenge to you, prove that homosexuality or anything else you consider "degenerate" is truly degenerate WITHOUT a religious text. If you can do that, I will submit that you are correct. I demand good solid proof, no logical fallacies, and well reasoned thought. Ball's in your court.

@Lucid Lunacy.... That puts a HUGE hole in your idea that the ONLY reason we would accept it today is if we were brainwashed by these mysterious agencies.

Not only are you claiming this masterful manipulation is the only reason we would believe, you're claiming it applies to all of us even if we don't watch TV.

I've made it clear that tv is one aspect of it all and that a person can also be influenced by the people around him. If your media classifies a carrot as a fruit, and if the people around you classify carrot as fruit and ridicule and attack people denying that carrot is a fruit...even if you don't watch people on tv calling carrot a fruit.... you too would call carrot a fruit.(I'm using a figure of speech to make a point, so don't type a long response explaining how you would logically determine that carrot cannot be classified as a fruit).

sk0rpi0n

@Krazysh0t....

What is your point with this? Elected officials don't determine societal norms anyways. Societal norms are determined by, wait for it... society.

Except in the case presented in the OP, the society was manipulated into redefining marriage and family and into accepting degeneracy as normal. The norms and values that society had originally decided for itself was reversed or junked. When I say ''elected'' = powers representing the will of the people... as opposed to powers working behind the scenes to distort traditional values upheld by the majority of society.

Behind the scenes like the department of education and the scientific community? I think these two are probably more responsible for the demoralization of society than the news media, although the talking heads on the toob aren't exactly blameless.

Education simply took a page out of religion's book ~ get them while they're young. And most parents have no clue what their children are learning at school about science and biology, which is just a different kind of religion ~ based on scientific THEORY.

reply to post by frazzle

But when it comes to a book written by man that details good life ways, you just about can't do better than the Qur'an whether you're Muslim or not, but that's just me.

Unless you're a woman.



If you haven't found better then you haven't read many books.

reply to post by frazzle


Just a heads up, you are walking down a path with this response by suggesting things about scientific theory that you don't want to walk down. I know what you are getting at and I'm just going to tell you, that you are wrong. I could tell all this by the fact that you capitalized the entire word "theory" and I because of that I already know what you are thinking. Just stop.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I've made it clear that tv is one aspect of it all and that a person can also be influenced by the people around him.

I acknowledged you said that. That's what this meant:

"you're claiming it applies to all of us even if we don't watch TV. "

How about you make some more things clear?

Maybe admit you secretly think this mysterious agency is Shaitan?

@Krazysh0t.....Your definition of degenerate is flawed though. Your ENTIRE premise relies on Christian values being correct.

But your arguments from a non-theistic pov are correct by default? Like it was said earlier, one doesn't even need to be theist to recognize degenerate and stupid behaviour in the godless media and in godless people.

sk0rpi0n

@Krazysh0t.....Your definition of degenerate is flawed though. Your ENTIRE premise relies on Christian values being correct.

But your arguments from a non-theistic pov are correct by default? Like it was said earlier, one doesn't even need to be theist to recognize degenerate and stupid behaviour in the godless media and in godless people.

I guess you didn't read this half of my post:

I submit a challenge to you, prove that homosexuality or anything else you consider "degenerate" is truly degenerate WITHOUT a religious text. If you can do that, I will submit that you are correct. I demand good solid proof, no logical fallacies, and well reasoned thought. Ball's in your court.

So there, I posted it again.

ETA: Until you can prove otherwise, the default opinion is that these behaviors are non-degenerate. They may be stupid and unappealing, but that doesn't make them degenerate.